603 réponses à ce sujet

[Catamantaloedis]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...
From a purely strategic perspective for the reaper war, curing the genophage is the superior option. It's always nice to have your shock troops replenish themselves.

The Reaper War is unwinnable, without the Crucible. If the Crucible fails, then the war is lost. Krogan reproduction will only delay this loss.

Therefore, ultimately the only thing necessary to win the war is to gain Krogan support in the short term, as a long term increase in their numbers is irrelevant. Thus it is best to simply trick them and gain their support, without curing the genophage. Then they will be unable to threaten the galaxy once the war has ended.

My point is that if you do fail, at least you incur as many reaper casualties as possible and give them one hell of a fight. If you win, you monitor the situation with the krogan. If need be, I'm sure a new genophage could be made. That's probably actually the first thing the salarians do if you cure the genophage. As the ending stands now, it doesn't really matter to me because there are no krogan females in the sol system. 

"Giving them a hell of a fight" is irrelevant when you are extinct. Creating another genophage will not be as easy as maintaining one already created. The Krogan, among many other sympathizers undoubtedly, will be particularly wary of such a thing.

[Star fury]

[silentassassin264]

Sadly I have to agree with the OP on this one. The only male Krogan that seems to be progressive enough to not be a vengeance seeking psychopath is Wrex. Wrex is near one thousand years. Even if he doesn't die of old age any time soon, as the Hollows showed, pretty much every other Krogan is gunning to take him down and get revenge. As soon as Wrex dies, which is quite possible to be sooner rather than later, the Krogan will be led by the strongest which will be some hot head like Wreav who goes back to the Krogan Rebellions all over again. You can just save yourself the trouble and keep them sterile.

[4stringwizard]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Sadly I have to agree with the OP on this one. The only male Krogan that seems to be progressive enough to not be a vengeance seeking psychopath is Wrex. Wrex is near one thousand years. Even if he doesn't die of old age any time soon, as the Hollows showed, pretty much every other Krogan is gunning to take him down and get revenge. As soon as Wrex dies, which is quite possible to be sooner rather than later, the Krogan will be led by the strongest which will be some hot head like Wreav who goes back to the Krogan Rebellions all over again. You can just save yourself the trouble and keep them sterile.

It's a VIDEO GAME, for crying out loud.  

Sheesh, some of you are talking about this as if it's real life.  Meanwhile, this game clearly had intended outcomes.  If Wrex is the leader, you should cure the genophage.  If Wreav is the leader, you should not cure the genophage.  Simple. 

[silentassassin264]

4stringwizard wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Sadly I have to agree with the OP on this one. The only male Krogan that seems to be progressive enough to not be a vengeance seeking psychopath is Wrex. Wrex is near one thousand years. Even if he doesn't die of old age any time soon, as the Hollows showed, pretty much every other Krogan is gunning to take him down and get revenge. As soon as Wrex dies, which is quite possible to be sooner rather than later, the Krogan will be led by the strongest which will be some hot head like Wreav who goes back to the Krogan Rebellions all over again. You can just save yourself the trouble and keep them sterile.

It's a VIDEO GAME, for crying out loud.  

Sheesh, some of you are talking about this as if it's real life.  Meanwhile, this game clearly had intended outcomes.  If Wrex is the leader, you should cure the genophage.  If Wreav is the leader, you should not cure the genophage.  Simple. 

Yeah it had intended outcomes and that was a huge problem with it.  Why did they assume that if they gave a complex problem like this that people would not think it through?  When I am role-playing my Shepard for this game, I am making the decision as if I am in the world, not like it is some videogame and I am the main character.  

[Typhoniel]

I sabotaged the cure for the genophage and Mordin was okay with that and I felt really paragon!

[wsandista]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

"Giving them a hell of a fight" is irrelevant when you are extinct. Creating another genophage will not be as easy as maintaining one already created. The Krogan, among many other sympathizers undoubtedly, will be particularly wary of such a thing.

Modifié par wsandista, 21 juin 2012 - 02:22 .

[Flashflame58]

I'm sure it's already been said, but...

YOU HUMANS ARE ALL RACIST!

[Catamantaloedis]

silentassassin264 wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Sadly I have to agree with the OP on this one. The only male Krogan that seems to be progressive enough to not be a vengeance seeking psychopath is Wrex. Wrex is near one thousand years. Even if he doesn't die of old age any time soon, as the Hollows showed, pretty much every other Krogan is gunning to take him down and get revenge. As soon as Wrex dies, which is quite possible to be sooner rather than later, the Krogan will be led by the strongest which will be some hot head like Wreav who goes back to the Krogan Rebellions all over again. You can just save yourself the trouble and keep them sterile.

It's a VIDEO GAME, for crying out loud.  

Sheesh, some of you are talking about this as if it's real life.  Meanwhile, this game clearly had intended outcomes.  If Wrex is the leader, you should cure the genophage.  If Wreav is the leader, you should not cure the genophage.  Simple. 

Yeah it had intended outcomes and that was a huge problem with it.  Why did they assume that if they gave a complex problem like this that people would not think it through?  When I am role-playing my Shepard for this game, I am making the decision as if I am in the world, not like it is some videogame and I am the main character.  

Critical thinking isn't welcomed on BSN apparently.

[GreyLycanTrope]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Sadly I have to agree with the OP on this one. The only male Krogan that seems to be progressive enough to not be a vengeance seeking psychopath is Wrex. Wrex is near one thousand years. Even if he doesn't die of old age any time soon, as the Hollows showed, pretty much every other Krogan is gunning to take him down and get revenge. As soon as Wrex dies, which is quite possible to be sooner rather than later, the Krogan will be led by the strongest which will be some hot head like Wreav who goes back to the Krogan Rebellions all over again. You can just save yourself the trouble and keep them sterile.

Then you're making the same faulty assumptions he is. First you're assuming a culture or people can't change over time. Second you're assuming Wrex's perspective is unique amongst the Krogan. We've had a few other examples of krogan being accepting of other cultures. Eve, Charr, Thax's representative was pretty damned polite. Let's not for get that Wrex is also the Krogan leader, if he's in that position it means he has more support then resistance to his goals and motivations. Even without Wrex there's a strong possiblity peace is attainable, the possiblity is stronger he's around sure but it's not nonexistant without him.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 21 juin 2012 - 03:07 .

[Catamantaloedis]

Greylycantrope wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Sadly I have to agree with the OP on this one. The only male Krogan that seems to be progressive enough to not be a vengeance seeking psychopath is Wrex. Wrex is near one thousand years. Even if he doesn't die of old age any time soon, as the Hollows showed, pretty much every other Krogan is gunning to take him down and get revenge. As soon as Wrex dies, which is quite possible to be sooner rather than later, the Krogan will be led by the strongest which will be some hot head like Wreav who goes back to the Krogan Rebellions all over again. You can just save yourself the trouble and keep them sterile.

Then you're making the same faulty assumptions he is. First you're assuming a culture or people can't change over time. Second you're assuming Wrex's perspective is unique amongst the Krogan. We've had a few other examples of krogan being accepting of other cultures. Eve, Charr, Thax's representative was pretty damned polite. Let's not for get that Wrex is also the Krogan leader, if he's in that position it means he has more support then resistance to his goals and motivations. Even without Wrex there's a strong possiblity peace is attainable, the possiblity is stronger he's around sure but it's not nonexistant without him.

The Krogan won't change. They've evolved to be mindless, sex-crazed murderers. Their formerly rare Blood Rage used to be looked down upon as a disease, but all Krogan have this plague now. And of those who looked down upon the Blood Rage, they were the same Krogan who nuked their planet into oblivion. The Krogan are even more mindless than they were before.

If Krogan culture does change, it will not be for the better.

[Hey]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Sadly I have to agree with the OP on this one. The only male Krogan that seems to be progressive enough to not be a vengeance seeking psychopath is Wrex. Wrex is near one thousand years. Even if he doesn't die of old age any time soon, as the Hollows showed, pretty much every other Krogan is gunning to take him down and get revenge. As soon as Wrex dies, which is quite possible to be sooner rather than later, the Krogan will be led by the strongest which will be some hot head like Wreav who goes back to the Krogan Rebellions all over again. You can just save yourself the trouble and keep them sterile.

Then you're making the same faulty assumptions he is. First you're assuming a culture or people can't change over time. Second you're assuming Wrex's perspective is unique amongst the Krogan. We've had a few other examples of krogan being accepting of other cultures. Eve, Charr, Thax's representative was pretty damned polite. Let's not for get that Wrex is also the Krogan leader, if he's in that position it means he has more support then resistance to his goals and motivations. Even without Wrex there's a strong possiblity peace is attainable, the possiblity is stronger he's around sure but it's not nonexistant without him.

The Krogan won't change. They've evolved to be mindless, sex-crazed murderers. Their formerly rare Blood Rage used to be looked down upon as a disease, but all Krogan have this plague now. And of those who looked down upon the Blood Rage, they were the same Krogan who nuked their planet into oblivion. The Krogan are even more mindless than they were before.

If Krogan culture does change, it will not be for the better.

I don't know about this.  Have you heard the stylings Charr the Krogan poet?  He seems to be pretty even keel.  I'm guessing there are at least a few like him

[Catamantaloedis]

Festae9 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Sadly I have to agree with the OP on this one. The only male Krogan that seems to be progressive enough to not be a vengeance seeking psychopath is Wrex. Wrex is near one thousand years. Even if he doesn't die of old age any time soon, as the Hollows showed, pretty much every other Krogan is gunning to take him down and get revenge. As soon as Wrex dies, which is quite possible to be sooner rather than later, the Krogan will be led by the strongest which will be some hot head like Wreav who goes back to the Krogan Rebellions all over again. You can just save yourself the trouble and keep them sterile.

Then you're making the same faulty assumptions he is. First you're assuming a culture or people can't change over time. Second you're assuming Wrex's perspective is unique amongst the Krogan. We've had a few other examples of krogan being accepting of other cultures. Eve, Charr, Thax's representative was pretty damned polite. Let's not for get that Wrex is also the Krogan leader, if he's in that position it means he has more support then resistance to his goals and motivations. Even without Wrex there's a strong possiblity peace is attainable, the possiblity is stronger he's around sure but it's not nonexistant without him.

The Krogan won't change. They've evolved to be mindless, sex-crazed murderers. Their formerly rare Blood Rage used to be looked down upon as a disease, but all Krogan have this plague now. And of those who looked down upon the Blood Rage, they were the same Krogan who nuked their planet into oblivion. The Krogan are even more mindless than they were before.

If Krogan culture does change, it will not be for the better.

I don't know about this.  Have you heard the stylings Charr the Krogan poet?  He seems to be pretty even keel.  I'm guessing there are at least a few like him

I'm sure some National Socialists were nice guys as well. Some probably loved poetry. That doesn't mean that they weren't genocidal brutes.

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 21 juin 2012 - 03:46 .

[Hey]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Festae9 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Sadly I have to agree with the OP on this one. The only male Krogan that seems to be progressive enough to not be a vengeance seeking psychopath is Wrex. Wrex is near one thousand years. Even if he doesn't die of old age any time soon, as the Hollows showed, pretty much every other Krogan is gunning to take him down and get revenge. As soon as Wrex dies, which is quite possible to be sooner rather than later, the Krogan will be led by the strongest which will be some hot head like Wreav who goes back to the Krogan Rebellions all over again. You can just save yourself the trouble and keep them sterile.

Then you're making the same faulty assumptions he is. First you're assuming a culture or people can't change over time. Second you're assuming Wrex's perspective is unique amongst the Krogan. We've had a few other examples of krogan being accepting of other cultures. Eve, Charr, Thax's representative was pretty damned polite. Let's not for get that Wrex is also the Krogan leader, if he's in that position it means he has more support then resistance to his goals and motivations. Even without Wrex there's a strong possiblity peace is attainable, the possiblity is stronger he's around sure but it's not nonexistant without him.

The Krogan won't change. They've evolved to be mindless, sex-crazed murderers. Their formerly rare Blood Rage used to be looked down upon as a disease, but all Krogan have this plague now. And of those who looked down upon the Blood Rage, they were the same Krogan who nuked their planet into oblivion. The Krogan are even more mindless than they were before.

If Krogan culture does change, it will not be for the better.

I don't know about this.  Have you heard the stylings Charr the Krogan poet?  He seems to be pretty even keel.  I'm guessing there are at least a few like him

I'm sure some National Socialists were nice guys as well. Some probably loved poetry. That doesn't mean that they weren't genocidal brutes.

It also doesn't mean they were.  Before ME 3 we hadn't even met a Krogan female.  Our entire experience was
based on dealings with warriors.  Charr, Eve are examples of a different types of Krogan.  One I am more than willing to allow to flourish.  Then there was the guy on the citadel that really just wanted a fish.  He seemed cool enough as well

[Mahrac]

wsandista wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

"Giving them a hell of a fight" is irrelevant when you are extinct. Creating another genophage will not be as easy as maintaining one already created. The Krogan, among many other sympathizers undoubtedly, will be particularly wary of such a thing.

Pretty sure is both

[TheClonesLegacy]

is this Thread still going on?
I thought this died weeks..no Months ago...

Modifié par TheClonesLegacy, 21 juin 2012 - 04:37 .

[Mahrac]

It got necro'd. Twice. Besides, it's the only thread Cameltrolldis still has unlocked.

[Seboist]

wiggles89 wrote...

People actually think that Wrex would be a positive influence for a krogan with an unchecked birth rate? Rofl.

Wreav fits the ME3 story better than this "Wrex".

[GreyLycanTrope]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Krogan won't change. They've evolved to be mindless, sex-crazed murderers. Their formerly rare Blood Rage used to be looked down upon as a disease, but all Krogan have this plague now. And of those who looked down upon the Blood Rage, they were the same Krogan who nuked their planet into oblivion. The Krogan are even more mindless than they were before.

If Krogan culture does change, it will not be for the better.

Yes they can, the potential is there. Evolution is not a linear path, it doesn't work in just one direction.

[Catamantaloedis]

Mahrac wrote...

It got necro'd. Twice. Besides, it's the only thread Cameltrolldis still has unlocked.

False. I have plenty of threads I can restore right now if I so choose.

[Catamantaloedis]

wiggles89 wrote...

People actually think that Wrex would be a positive influence for a krogan with an unchecked birth rate? Rofl.

And what happens when those planets run out of space and resources for the tens of millions of Krogan born each year. They'll need more. And afterwards? More. And then there will be no more planets. And then, the Krogan will have settlements on human or Asari or Turian worlds. Thus again the Rebellions will begin.

Their is simply no way to control the Krogan. The power of the reproduction outside of their hostile environment, coupled with their savage nature, can only lead to galactic devastation.

All Krogan. Every single Krogan mother, father, and child must be put to the sword. Their planet must be burned, and every aspect of their species destroyed. It's the only way to ensure that no Krogan will ever threaten a human world.

[avenging_teabag]

Ignoring the OP's OTT statements, curing the genophage is a terrible, terrible idea, if you think about it with any degree degree of clarity. And that's no matter who's in charge of the krogan - sucks that Wrex is your friend, but 1) he's already old by krogan standards, there's no guarantee that he'll survive the war, and 2) the genophage was a foundation of his power over the krogan, because females chose his clan. Remove the genophage, females are all fertile, and Wrex's grip on the clans goes from tenuous to nonexistent. Who was the last krogan warlord to die of natural causes?

Krogan have ho central government, Wrex only officially controls clan Urdnot, and even there he has vocal and strong opposition. If the ganophage is cured, how soon will other clan leaders turn on him? My guess is pretty goddamn soon. And if Wreav is in power, removing the genophage is plain suicide.

Krogan just cannot be trusted to breed unchecked - not with their track record - that is the cold, hard truth. They're a horde of bloodthirsty savages who multiply like cockroaches, are extremely hard to kill, and have huge chips on their shoulders. Many of them would want revenge. People who think one person (or two if Bakara's alive) would be able to control that overheated boiler after all the safety checks have been removed, are stupidly naive.

So sorry, Mordin. You're not going up there.

Modifié par avenging_teabag, 21 juin 2012 - 08:19 .

[Star fury]

Mahrac wrote...

It got necro'd. Twice.

And it's pathetic. Troll keeps bumping it too when it goes into oblivion as it should.

[Bad King]

wiggles89 wrote...

People actually think that Wrex would be a positive influence for a krogan with an unchecked birth rate? Rofl.

And even if he refrained from creating a krogan empire, the massive birth rate of his people would force him to seize new worlds in order to stop his people from dying. Before the krogan rebellions, relations between the krogan and the council races were actually very good. The krogan simply had no choice but to attack council worlds as their population increase was out of control.

The genophage wasn't just some crude WMD that was unleashed without any consideration of the consequences- as Mordin says, the salarians debated hundreds of different options to ensure the war would end without resulting in krogan extinction. The genophage was the best option- for the council races and for the krogan (who would otherwise have been wiped off the face of the galaxy by the turian military).