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[FodoSatoru]

Zardoc wrote...

FodoSatoru wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

FodoSatoru wrote...

Henioo wrote...

I will indulge you.

You know them Germans, right? They kind of started two world wars and caused unimaginable suffering with their warfare and imperialism. Also Japan, i.e. the rape of Nanking.

Yet, they were not all killed for allegiance. And look, it's been over 70 years since the last war and the mentioned partied have peacefully rejoined the international community. And I am sure some thought this would never happen, and another war was sure to rise.

The krogan may very well become a threat again, but they can also become respecful allies in years to come.

Close-mindedness is what kills poople.

Yeah, your mind is so open that you must feel so lonely and lost in all that space. How can you compare such things? Do the Krogan have any redeeming qualities? Or any history periods of peaceful coexistence before the genophage? Because every time I read something about the Krogan it is only war and violence. You evidently don't know what are you talking about.

The history of humanity is riddled with war and violence to this very day. Do we deserve to be wiped out?

But not ONLY war and violence. Do you really can't see the difference between the krogan and humanity? Even in ME universe it is apparent. Besides, the genophage only modulates birth rate, it's not exterminate them.

Again, the krogan only recently began to go through their war phase when the salarians decided they needed them to wipe out the rachni. Before that the planet itself ensured that the krogan never had time to fight each other, seeing how it's a giant deathtrap. And quite frankly, the only difference between the humans and the krogan is that we were able to solve the Cuba Crisis peacefully.

And I wouldn't call a 1 to 1000 chance of a successful live birth "modulation". If the krogan had the chance for a cultural renaissance to change their ways, and a planet less...dangerous...they might be able to cope with the genophage properly. But thanks to the genophage most krogan completely lost hope to ever rebuild their culture and became essentially Death Seekers and just continued to fight and vented their anger against the universe instead of rebuilding. It's a vicious cycle, really.

That's extremely naive. The Krogan are shaped by their enviorment to be brutal predators with extremely high birth rate. You can't change what they are. On more hospitable planet their population would grow so large that they would want to colonize another world, and another, and another. And most probably not in peaceful way. Considering how hard it is to kill a single krogan, it is extremely irresposible to let them expand, just because you know 3 slightly sympathetic specimens.

[Catamantaloedis]

They will never be ready. The only thing they'll be ready for is a species-wide mass grave.

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 11 mai 2012 - 12:04 .

[Sepharih]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The extinction of the genophage is very substantial for galactic civilization.

Maybe...if you assume the future of galactic civilization is a given, and thanks to the Reapers it most definately isn't.

[xsdob]

FodoSatoru wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

FodoSatoru wrote...

Henioo wrote...

I will indulge you.

You know them Germans, right? They kind of started two world wars and caused unimaginable suffering with their warfare and imperialism. Also Japan, i.e. the rape of Nanking.

Yet, they were not all killed for allegiance. And look, it's been over 70 years since the last war and the mentioned partied have peacefully rejoined the international community. And I am sure some thought this would never happen, and another war was sure to rise.

The krogan may very well become a threat again, but they can also become respecful allies in years to come.

Close-mindedness is what kills poople.

Yeah, your mind is so open that you must feel so lonely and lost in all that space. How can you compare such things? Do the Krogan have any redeeming qualities? Or any history periods of peaceful coexistence before the genophage? Because every time I read something about the Krogan it is only war and violence. You evidently don't know what are you talking about.

The history of humanity is riddled with war and violence to this very day. Do we deserve to be wiped out?

But not ONLY war and violence. Do you really can't see the difference between the krogan and humanity? Even in ME universe it is apparent. Besides, the genophage only modulates birth rate, it's not exterminate them.

The krogan city in mass effect 3 disporves your claim.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

 Why would I as a good upstanding human, ever cure the genophage? It keeps one of the most savage races in the whole galaxy under wraps and ensures that no human will ever have to die fighting some barbaric krogan horde. Even Wrex is just brute who will eventually try to expand his territory, maybe diplomatically for some time. His successors won't be so amenable.

In my opinion, the genophage doesn't go far out. Once we've tricked the Krogan into aiding us, of course after Wrex has been killed, then we should take the fight to Tuchanka and exterminate them as a race.

Weren't you just going on about how BioWare was defaming Democracy and trying to promote Fascism in the west the other day? And now you want to commit genocide? Good trolling requires subtlety man.

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 11 mai 2012 - 12:07 .

[Henioo]

FodoSatoru wrote...

Henioo wrote...

I will indulge you.

You know them Germans, right? They kind of started two world wars and caused unimaginable suffering with their warfare and imperialism. Also Japan, i.e. the rape of Nanking.

Yet, they were not all killed for allegiance. And look, it's been over 70 years since the last war and the mentioned partied have peacefully rejoined the international community. And I am sure some thought this would never happen, and another war was sure to rise.

The krogan may very well become a threat again, but they can also become respecful allies in years to come.

Close-mindedness is what kills poople.

Yeah, your mind is so open that you must feel so lonely and lost in all that space. How can you compare such things? Do the Krogan have any redeeming qualities? Or any history periods of peaceful coexistence before the genophage? Because every time I read something about the Krogan it is only war and violence. You evidently don't know what are you talking about.

Firstly, the close-mindedness I was refering to was Catamantaloedis's.  Where have I ever called myself open-minded, or more open minded than others? If this is how my response was taken, I am deeply sorry. Never did I mean to sound pretentious or ignorant, trying to call myself a better person than someone else, especially in contrast to one's beliefs. I only meant that Catamantaloedis here is very stubborn, seeing the argument from one side only, not even trying to see the other side. An example of close-mindedness.

Secondly, yes, they do have redeeming qualities. There are many krogan who were not obsessed with killing their competitors. Sure, there are quite a few that do, but not all of them are this way. After the Rebellions, Wrex and his clan wanted change, but his father was more powerful and made it impossible. Now Wrex is the most powerful; it seems the krogan follow the strongest individual. He will keep them in check.

I don't believe in condemning an entire species because of some of its actions. However, I see where those who think otherwise are coming from, I really do. Krogan proved to be unsavable on more than one occasion. But my Shepard was still willing to try one last time to fix what the salarians broke.

And no, there was no period of coexistence with other species because as soon as salarians found them, they sent them off to fight in their war. Who knows how the krogan would have resolved their own troubles before achieving space flight. Maybe they would have destroyed their own planet. Maybe when the dust would fall, they'd come to their senses. Maybe they were supossed to kill each other to keep their population in check. Maybe they were not suppose to achieve space flight in this cycle, but in the next one, when their species would get mature enough?

Maybe war and violence is the krogan's way, just like it is the asari's to be galactic ****s, turians to be all about military, and salarians to do science and experiment with things that shouldn't be experimented with. Krogan culture is just alien. Just as alien to us as the Protheans'. Do you think the asari-human-turian-salarian Council would be fine with the Prothean imperialistic methods? The Potheans were very business-like, according to Javik, completely different to the main species of this cycle. I'm sure that if the million of Javik's people on Eden Prime survive, they'd quickly start a war over power with the Council races. Would that mean that they'd be wrong? I think not; it would just mean their culture is different and they'd have no place in this world.

And please explain the evidence you have for me not knowing what I am talking about.

Thanks.

P.S.

Please pardon the grammar, English is not my first language, but I did my best.

[xsdob]

Oh, and the krogan on illium living a peaceful life and trying to build a life for himself and his love. And how he sacrificed himself fighting against the indoctrinated rachni to keep his squad alive.

What an irredeemable monster he must be/ sarcasm.

[Catamantaloedis]

@Deuterium_Dawn

As if a race can't be democratic and still wipe out it's ultimate enemies.

How naive are you?

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 11 mai 2012 - 12:09 .

[Geneaux486]

This has the same feel as those "How do I stop Garrus and Tali from hooking up without romancing either of them" threads.

[ediskrad327]

there is no reason NOT to cure it

[FodoSatoru]

xsdob wrote...

Oh, and the krogan on illium living a peaceful life and trying to build a life for himself and his love. And how he sacrificed himself fighting against the indoctrinated rachni to keep his squad alive.

What an irredeemable monster he must be/ sarcasm.

Yeah, because a single example redeems entire species.

[Bad King]

Agreed. Krogan breed too quickly- this would lead to their rapid expansion and another war costing millions of lives. The genophage is the best solution for them and for us.

[xsdob]

FodoSatoru wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Oh, and the krogan on illium living a peaceful life and trying to build a life for himself and his love. And how he sacrificed himself fighting against the indoctrinated rachni to keep his squad alive.

What an irredeemable monster he must be/ sarcasm.

Yeah, because a single example redeems entire species.

And judging them based on a history you are bias against is better? The ancient city where you travel to the shroud in is a prime example that the krogan can have a society that is not based around fighting and warfare, which you tried to suggest didn't exsist with your "they never have any examples of them living peacefully." speal.

You made a claim, I disputed it, simple as that.

Modifié par xsdob, 11 mai 2012 - 12:16 .

[Catamantaloedis]

ediskrad327 wrote...

there is no reason NOT to cure it

I can think of one. Not wanting an race of rooster-headed abominations running around the galaxy.

[legionaireshen]

My canon shep never cure the genophage but your idea of extermination is too extreme

[Sepharih]

FodoSatoru wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Oh, and the krogan on illium living a peaceful life and trying to build a life for himself and his love. And how he sacrificed himself fighting against the indoctrinated rachni to keep his squad alive.

What an irredeemable monster he must be/ sarcasm.

Yeah, because a single example redeems entire species.

You know the saying "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic".  Well it works both ways in storytelling. All it takes is an emotional attachment to one character (or in this case 3) to radically change your perceptions of the events.

Modifié par Sepharih, 11 mai 2012 - 12:19 .

[Catamantaloedis]

Bad King wrote...

Agreed. Krogan breed too quickly- this would lead to their rapid expansion and another war costing millions of lives. The genophage is the best solution for them and for us.

Extinction is the best solution for every Krogan.

[Henioo]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

ediskrad327 wrote...

there is no reason NOT to cure it

I can think of one. Not wanting an race of rooster-headed abominations running around the galaxy.

Come one, you're really aren't trying, now. Before you were at least trying to sound logical, but now you go for rasism?

Tsk, tsk, tsk.

[ediskrad327]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

ediskrad327 wrote...

there is no reason NOT to cure it

I can think of one. Not wanting an race of rooster-headed abominations running around the galaxy.

[Bad King]

xsdob wrote...

FodoSatoru wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Oh, and the krogan on illium living a peaceful life and trying to build a life for himself and his love. And how he sacrificed himself fighting against the indoctrinated rachni to keep his squad alive.

What an irredeemable monster he must be/ sarcasm.

Yeah, because a single example redeems entire species.

And judging them based on a history you are bias against is better? The ancient city where you travel to the shroud in is a prime example that the krogan can have a society that is not based around fighting and warfare, which you tried to suggest didn't exsist with your "they never have any examples of them living peacefully." speal.

You made a claim, I disputed it, simple as that.

The problem with that argument is that the ancient city was built prior to the nuclear war. And it was the nuclear war which turned the krogan aggressive. Even Eve says that Urdnot Wrex is an exception among the krogan. masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Aliens:_Non-Council_Races#Krogan:_Blood_Rage

[FodoSatoru]

xsdob wrote...

FodoSatoru wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Oh, and the krogan on illium living a peaceful life and trying to build a life for himself and his love. And how he sacrificed himself fighting against the indoctrinated rachni to keep his squad alive.

What an irredeemable monster he must be/ sarcasm.

Yeah, because a single example redeems entire species.

And judging them based on a history you are bias against is better? The ancient city where you travel to the shroud in is a prime example that the krogan can have a society that is not based around fighting and warfare, which you tried to suggest didn't exsist with your "they never have any examples of them living peacefully." speal.

You made a claim, I disputed it, simple as that.

So... you claim that civilisation based around violence and war can't build pretty temples as well? Your argument makes no sense.

[MegaSovereign]

Negative, there can be no retreat. NO RETREAT! No stepping back, no stepping forward AND NO destroying reaper forces.

No defeating the reapers. no defeating the reapers. Innocent people die.

[justafan]

If we didn't get Krogan support, there would be no future to worry about. If the Genophage was sabotaged, that support would be gone the moment the females began birthing stillborns again. At the time I had no idea how long the war with the reapers would take, so I decided I would not risk losing Krogan support, and that the Salarians would come around once Reapers began landing on Sur-Kesh.

In any case, the Krogan brute force means nothing to an orbital bombardment, and it would take generations for the Krogan to get a fleet that could challenge the combined might of the Humans and Turians. Not to mention a second genophage shouldn't be too hard to make if necessary.

[Darth_Trethon]

The OP is a bit confrontational about the issue but he does have very valid points. The Krogan are not ready to be cured period. They are just as violent and out of control as before....all a cure would do is send them on a revenge frenzy that would be devastating to what remains of the universe once the reapers are gone. You HAVE to remember Krogans drove asteroids into colonies killing millions and billions of innocents during the Krogan rebellions. Wrex is old and when's the last time anyone heard of a Krogan leader dying of old age?

The genophage must NOT be cured in any way, shape or form.

As far as wiping out an entire species....I'd be more concerned about the Yahg. I'd nuke their planet to dust without a second thought. If they ever become a space faring species they are going to be a far larger problem than the Krogan because they aren't just ruthless and violent and completely beyond insane but they are intelligent too.

[EsterCloat]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Negative, there can be no retreat. NO RETREAT! No stepping back, no stepping forward AND NO destroying reaper forces.

No defeating the reapers. no defeating the reapers. Innocent people die.

And if they don't?