16 réponses à ce sujet

[Yggdrasil]

I think playing a mage in the Dragon Age games was more satisfying than any other game I've played.  I really liked the spell combos in Origin and was sad not to see it return in DA2.

Even late in the game I never got tired of knocking enemies down with Grease and then setting them on fire with a flame spell.

And Storm of the Century?  OMG!  Even though it was just as likely to kill your guys as the others, the visual effects were AWESOME!

[wsandista]

I agree, but then I think they should just go back to DA:O combat and work from there, since I preferred the more tactical approach to combat in general.

[Face of Evil]

They ditched the Spell Combos to make the classes more balanced and because half of them stunk anyway.

[quote]Face of Evil wrote...

[quote]wsandista wrote...

I agree, but then I think they should just go back to DA:O combat and work from there, since I preferred the more tactical approach to combat in general.[/quote]

Bah. I had to make a lot more snap decisions in DA2 than I did in DAO.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 11 mai 2012 - 04:37 .

[wsandista]

Face of Evil wrote...

wsandista wrote...

I agree, but then I think they should just go back to DA:O combat and work from there, since I preferred the more tactical approach to combat in general.

Bah. I had to make a lot more snap decisions in DA2 than I did in DAO.

That was the point, I had to have a strategy planned out in DAO to be effective against most well balanced groups of foes, in DA2 I didn't have to worry as much about positioning, certain enemy types, or much else, seeing how I could just rush in and overwhelm enemies without having any real strategy.

[Vormaerin]

The cross class combo system is far better than the "oh, the more mages you have, the better your group is" system from DAO.

[AkiKishi]

Let's not it makes having a 3 mage 1 tank party even more OP than it was. CCC's at least made it worthwhile to have varied classes.

Can't say I found DA2 tactical, as much as I did gamey. I was doing gamey things in response to gamey situations(people dropping from the sky or guys in full plate spawning on top of my mage). Where as in DA I was applying tactical solutions to tactical situations. Juding the situation via stealth, making a plan, altering the battlefield to my advantage and then executing that plan.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 11 mai 2012 - 06:24 .

[Sejborg]

MichaelStJohn90068 wrote...

I think playing a mage in the Dragon Age games was more satisfying than any other game I've played.  I really liked the spell combos in Origin and was sad not to see it return in DA2.

Even late in the game I never got tired of knocking enemies down with Grease and then setting them on fire with a flame spell.

And Storm of the Century?  OMG!  Even though it was just as likely to kill your guys as the others, the visual effects were AWESOME!

I agree. The mages in Origins was alot of fun because of the spell combos. I don't know why they removed it? I think the combos made sense and were actually quite clever. 

Cross class combos could just have been added to the system. No reason to remove something that was fun about the combat, just to implement CCC. <_<

Just have it both! And make sure that the ccc combos make sense. 

Modifié par Sejborg, 11 mai 2012 - 10:48 .

[Its_a_Catdemon]

I'd prefer to have neither combo system, if the game could be made tactical in other ways it would be great.

about finding DA2 gamey, I got that feeling too, although the huge army of weak enemies can be fun in certain situations, it would be more fulfilling to have fewer, stronger enemies, instead of the chaotically spawning waves, which often made no sense.

The CCC's made DA2 feel more gamey to me, they made it apparent that the world is split up into rogues, warriors, and mages. Very immersion breaking, only mages are actually separate from the others, and they wouldn't really need the others like that.

I understand why people talk about game balance reasons for preferring it, but from a roleplaying perspective, CCC's are worse than mage combo's.

[Nerdage]

Yes, cross-class combos are a good idea, but I'd prefer they approach them from a "what combinations are the most intuitive and sensible" standpoint rather than "what combinations are best for party balance".

Warriors and rogues exploiting a brittle opponent is good, but why can't a mage? If a warrior can set an enemy up for fist of the maker why can't a rogue? Occasionally I'd find myself stopping combat to remind myself which debuff goes with which ability, even after finishing the game half a dozen times before.

Gamey's a good word for it.

[berelinde]

nerdage wrote...

Warriors and rogues exploiting a brittle opponent is good, but why can't a mage? If a warrior can set an enemy up for fist of the maker why can't a rogue? Occasionally I'd find myself stopping combat to remind myself which debuff goes with which ability, even after finishing the game half a dozen times before.

Gamey's a good word for it.

Precisely. Why doesn't Stone Fist shatter brittle opponents? Really, it should.

CCC was good, but it needs to be fine tuned.

[AkiKishi]

berelinde wrote...

nerdage wrote...

Warriors and rogues exploiting a brittle opponent is good, but why can't a mage? If a warrior can set an enemy up for fist of the maker why can't a rogue? Occasionally I'd find myself stopping combat to remind myself which debuff goes with which ability, even after finishing the game half a dozen times before.

Gamey's a good word for it.

Precisely. Why doesn't Stone Fist shatter brittle opponents? Really, it should.

CCC was good, but it needs to be fine tuned.

One way to do it is to remove the cross class part and just have states. This is how Xenoblade did it. Certain skills cause certain states, different characters get access to different combinations of them. Some are more synergistic than others, but any party combo can pull them off by the end of the game.

First you need a break skill, this breaks the defence. Next you have a topple skill that knocks people over. Then you can apply a daze skill which will keep them down and defenceless while you beat on them. Finally some have execution skills which are % chances of killing anything dazed.
Equipment can also be customised with on hit chance skills as well. It gets pretty involved when you are trying to stop one of the big hitter enemy attacks.

[BubbleDncr]

I would like cross-class combos to be more varied amongst what abilities allow for it.

For instance - I don't like ice spells. Its a weird thing, I know, but when I play a mage, I don't take any ice spells. So guess who missed out on a lot of cross class combos, since they were all based on targets being brittle?

It made me feel like since I wasn't taking ice spells, I wasn't playing the game correctly. And isn't the whole point of skill trees and leveling up so that you can play any way you want?

[Dakota Strider]

Rather than spell combos, I would prefer to see more spells that are used to buff other party members, individually, or as a group. Mages are becoming nothing more than damage generators, and it takes next to no skill to play that. Have them help the party by using their magic to give bonuses to hit, damage, resistances, health etc. Use the powers on the enemy that are not just damage, knockdown or paralzye. You could slow them, weaken them, disorientate them or lower their resistance.

All combat needs to step back from the big flashy damage storms, whether it comes from magic, swords or crossbow bolts from hell. It takes no skill to take down an enemy by just overwhelming them with damage. It would be nice to see a need to fight a little more defensively, and have enemies that fight with more skill as well.

Unless Bioware should someday regain the D&D license, I know that we will never see that exact style of combat again. It is a pity, because well over thirty years of trial and error has gone into that system and Bioware had brought it to the crpg in a very creditable fashion. While Dragon Age has to be its own game, with its own combat system, it can still fall back on the principles that it used in the Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights series. More combat choices with spells and physical feats, that actually give you a feel of tactical control of the combat, rather than a fireworks storm of hack n slash button-dancing.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 11 mai 2012 - 07:31 .

[Vormaerin]

BubbleDncr wrote...

For instance - I don't like ice spells. Its a weird thing, I know, but when I play a mage, I don't take any ice spells. So guess who missed out on a lot of cross class combos, since they were all based on targets being brittle?

Well, in that case, you do it the other way around and use your mage spells that are amplified by staggered or confused or whatever.    I got most of my cross class combos from the Confused status being exploited by my warriors and the staggered status being exploited by my rogues.

That's rather the whole point of the system:  You just need any two legs of the stool.  In DAO, you only brought a non mage along in an optimum group because you couldn't actually get 3 NPC mages.  

[BubbleDncr]

Vormaerin wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

For instance - I don't like ice spells. Its a weird thing, I know, but when I play a mage, I don't take any ice spells. So guess who missed out on a lot of cross class combos, since they were all based on targets being brittle?

Well, in that case, you do it the other way around and use your mage spells that are amplified by staggered or confused or whatever.    I got most of my cross class combos from the Confused status being exploited by my warriors and the staggered status being exploited by my rogues.

That's rather the whole point of the system:  You just need any two legs of the stool.  In DAO, you only brought a non mage along in an optimum group because you couldn't actually get 3 NPC mages.  

I'm just saying, it would be nice if there was one ability in each tree that gave you the condition required for cross class combos - just to give more flexibility in how you can level up but still take advantage of cross class-combos.

[Vormaerin]

Yes, that's reasonable, especially if it is an upgrade of the ability. The mage has the ability to set up combos with Primal or Elemental. They can trigger them with Arcane, Primal, or Spirit. So I don't think its as limited as you make it out. A few more options wouldn't hurt, as long as you don't end up making them too easy because you always have a set up or trigger available.