323 réponses à ce sujet

[The Mercenary55]

Lord Goose wrote...

The Mercenary55 wrote...

wow i cant believe some people, "shajar: i dont want to destroy the reapers, that would be genocide" are you serious!?! the reapers have been massacring civilizations for millions of years and you dont want to destroy them, i cannot understand some people

Personally, I choose Contorl only because my character was very paragonish. He truly believed that synthetics life has the same rights as organic. What something is alive if it has ability to think, feel and change with experience. He also respected Legion's sacrifice and was friend with EDI. So, where was no way he could sacrifice them if he had another option.

shepard has synthetic/cybernetic parts keeping him alive and the catalyst said that if you chose destroy you  too would die but if you hae high enough ems shepard takes that breathe. now if the catalyst was wrong/lied about that he could also hav lied/been wrong about edi and the geth dying. thats what i see and hope in the destroy option 

[Brother Takka]

Destroying the Reapers is a mercy killing. What ever they where is long gone. They have all been changed. They all now believe that death is are salvation.

[antares_sublight]

dreman9999 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Despite the dialogue not being there in the game, Shepard-Controller could very well come to that conclusion after thousands or tens of thousands of years - that the cycle is a rational procedure. What's to stop him from being persuaded somehow to restart the cycle?

Why would he do that, again? 

To stop synthetics from wiping out all organic life.

Why would whoever created the Catalyst do it? How many thousands of years is Shepard-Controller going to have to be influenced and persuaded? There's no guarantee he might come to the same conclusion.

Again what is the guarentee that Shepard will think the same way.

There's no guarantee either way. Shepard-Controller would have thousands of years to be persuaded through experience or external forces.

Do you know that 
Shepard-Controller would not have any past memeory to us to dictate his actions?

Do you know that he wouldn't change his mind after tens of thousands of years of watching?

I'm telling you exactly, there is no guarantee either way. Control leaves open the possibility for the cycle to continue.

[dreman9999]

antares_sublight wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Despite the dialogue not being there in the game, Shepard-Controller could very well come to that conclusion after thousands or tens of thousands of years - that the cycle is a rational procedure. What's to stop him from being persuaded somehow to restart the cycle?

Why would he do that, again? 

To stop synthetics from wiping out all organic life.

Why would whoever created the Catalyst do it? How many thousands of years is Shepard-Controller going to have to be influenced and persuaded? There's no guarantee he might come to the same conclusion.

Again what is the guarentee that Shepard will think the same way.

There's no guarantee either way. Shepard-Controller would have thousands of years to be persuaded through experience or external forces.

Do you know that 
Shepard-Controller would not have any past memeory to us to dictate his actions?

Do you know that he wouldn't change his mind after tens of thousands of years of watching?

I'm telling you exactly, there is no guarantee either way. Control leaves open the possibility for the cycle to continue.

You not getting it. He is in a system he is to control with him having no memeory with only the system to tell him everything and any thing...Andthe system is pro harvest. Do understand that a person beleif are based on the group he develops with. And Shepard is starting over a newin that system. It's not a 50/50 possiblity if you give one side of the story only. If I'm raised to beleive something It's going to take a long time to unbeleive it. And being that he is relearning with the reapers....I would not say there is chance he would do something other then harvest.

[jijeebo]

antares_sublight wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Despite the dialogue not being there in the game, Shepard-Controller could very well come to that conclusion after thousands or tens of thousands of years - that the cycle is a rational procedure. What's to stop him from being persuaded somehow to restart the cycle?

Why would he do that, again? 

To stop synthetics from wiping out all organic life.

Why would whoever created the Catalyst do it? How many thousands of years is Shepard-Controller going to have to be influenced and persuaded? There's no guarantee he might come to the same conclusion.

Again what is the guarentee that Shepard will think the same way.

There's no guarantee either way. Shepard-Controller would have thousands of years to be persuaded through experience or external forces.

Do you know that 
Shepard-Controller would not have any past memeory to us to dictate his actions?

Do you know that he wouldn't change his mind after tens of thousands of years of watching?

I'm telling you exactly, there is no guarantee either way. Control leaves open the possibility for the cycle to continue.

They really went overboard with their speculation-o-meter... Didn't they? :wizard::wizard:

[antares_sublight]

dreman9999 wrote...

You not getting it. He is in a system he is to control with him having no memeory with only the system to tell him everything and any thing...Andthe system is pro harvest. Do understand that a person beleif are based on the group he develops with. And Shepard is starting over a newin that system. It's not a 50/50 possiblity if you give one side of the story only. If I'm raised to beleive something It's going to take a long time to unbeleive it. And being that he is relearning with the reapers....I would not say there is chance he would do something other then harvest.

Don't tell me I'm not getting it. We're on the same side of the issue. I was originally replying to someone saying that control meant Shepard would stop the cycle. I'm saying that he totally might decide to keep the cycle going. You're just saying that he defiitely will.

Modifié par antares_sublight, 11 mai 2012 - 07:55 .

[Rip504]

Specifically Tell me what happens to the Reapers in the Green ending? O you can't say? Starchild states there will be peace? Starchild also states The relays will be destroyed. Our Bioware "Tweet endings" state this may not be the case...

So?

[Redwing198403]

I am pretty sure destroying them will stop them.

[antares_sublight]

Rip504 wrote...


Specifically Tell me what happens to the Reapers in the Green ending? O you can't say? Starchild states there will be peace? Starchild also states The relays will be destroyed. Our Bioware "Tweet endings" state this may not be the case...

So?

The reapers either retire to Florida, or colonize some place, or ... do a little reaping on the side just for fun... umm...

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Despite the dialogue not being there in the game, Shepard-Controller could very well come to that conclusion after thousands or tens of thousands of years - that the cycle is a rational procedure. What's to stop him from being persuaded somehow to restart the cycle?

Why would he do that, again? 

To stop synthetics from wiping out all organic life.

Why would whoever created the Catalyst do it? How many thousands of years is Shepard-Controller going to have to be influenced and persuaded? There's no guarantee he might come to the same conclusion.

Again what is the guarentee that Shepard will think the same way.

There's no guarantee either way. Shepard-Controller would have thousands of years to be persuaded through experience or external forces.

Do you know that 
Shepard-Controller would not have any past memeory to us to dictate his actions?

Do you know that he wouldn't change his mind after tens of thousands of years of watching?

I'm telling you exactly, there is no guarantee either way. Control leaves open the possibility for the cycle to continue.

They really went overboard with their speculation-o-meter... Didn't they? :wizard::wizard:

You not getting it. He is in a system he is to control with him having no memeory with only the system to tell him everything and any thing...Andthe system is pro harvest. Do understand that a person beleif are based on the group he develops with. And Shepard is starting over a newin that system. It's not a 50/50 possiblity if you give one side of the story only. If I'm raised to beleive something It's going to take a long time to unbeleive it. And being that he is relearning with the reapers....I would not say there is chance he would do something other then harvest.

[Rip504]

antares_sublight wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You not getting it. He is in a system he is to control with him having no memeory with only the system to tell him everything and any thing...Andthe system is pro harvest. Do understand that a person beleif are based on the group he develops with. And Shepard is starting over a newin that system. It's not a 50/50 possiblity if you give one side of the story only. If I'm raised to beleive something It's going to take a long time to unbeleive it. And being that he is relearning with the reapers....I would not say there is chance he would do something other then harvest.

Don't tell me I'm not getting it. We're on the same side of the issue. I was originally replying to someone saying that control meant Shepard would stop the cycle. I'm saying that he totally might decide to keep the cycle going. You're just saying that he defiitely will.

:lol:
Where is it clearly stated Shepard lost his/her mind? You will lose everything you have? But will the Reapers listen to ME? Yes...

So clearly Shepard's conscious could still be fully intact. A strong will etc. Shepard may believe what the Reapers and catalyst have done over the countless cycles is wrong. So it may take 100,000's of years to change Shepard's opinion. Then countless Options open up,not just OO Now Shepard will restart the cycle as the Reapers God. Nope there are more options then just that,and I do not believe Shepard lost his/her mind.

Or did I misunderstand something?

Modifié par Rip504, 11 mai 2012 - 08:04 .

[estebanus]

There is no way of knowing if the reapers' cycle of mass extinction truly stops if they're left alive. After all, they themselves are intelligent beings, and in the case of synthesis, there is no catalyst/starchild to control them anymore. They would be a rogue faction. One that is known for committing heinous crimes throughout time.

In control, there is no safe way to know if Shepard can truly control the reapers, except the word of a little brat who is the leader of the enemy.

Destroy is the only one where you can be absolutely safe that the cycle will stop. The reapers will be no more. The galaxy will finally be free of their curse.

[Sidney]

Rip504 wrote...


Specifically Tell me what happens to the Reapers in the Green ending? O you can't say? Starchild states there will be peace? Starchild also states The relays will be destroyed. Our Bioware "Tweet endings" state this may not be the case...

So?

There are no more organics to kill so the Reapers have no reason to reaper. That should be pretty obvious.

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...
They really went overboard with their speculation-o-meter... Didn't they? :wizard::wizard:

You not getting it. He is in a system he is to control with him having no memeory with only the system to tell him everything and any thing...Andthe system is pro harvest. Do understand that a person beleif are based on the group he develops with. And Shepard is starting over a newin that system. It's not a 50/50 possiblity if you give one side of the story only. If I'm raised to beleive something It's going to take a long time to unbeleive it. And being that he is relearning with the reapers....I would not say there is chance he would do something other then harvest.

If you tell me one more time that i'm not "getting it", i'm going to slap you.

1. I was making a joke
2. Shepard losing his memory is nothing more than assumption, and the catalysts line about losing everything you are does NOT prove otherwise... It is referring to his old life, his body and his friends. Shep is still Shep.
3. In Control Shepard IS the system, it's him and him alone that control the reapers
4. I was making a joke

Modifié par jijeebo, 11 mai 2012 - 08:10 .

[Demoiselle]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Through out the entire game the main objective is to "STOP the Reaper" its this phraze that is used repeatedly.

I've seen a good few people corrupting it into "destroy the reapers" to force their prefered Genocide ending.

One thing is true whatever ending you pick the Reapers are STOPPED.

This. This. This.

Seriously, I'm sick of people telling me that if Shep doesn't destroy the Reapers then they're going back on everything they stand for, compromising themselves, giving in to the Reapers ect.

'Shepard wanted to destroy the Reapers so she will pick the destroy option or they have compromised themselves' is not a good argument for destroy.

Modifié par Demoiselle, 11 mai 2012 - 08:12 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Sidney wrote...

Rip504 wrote...


Specifically Tell me what happens to the Reapers in the Green ending? O you can't say? Starchild states there will be peace? Starchild also states The relays will be destroyed. Our Bioware "Tweet endings" state this may not be the case...

So?

There are no more organics to kill so the Reapers have no reason to reaper. That should be pretty obvious.

If only anything like that were actually said or hinted at. 

Speculations. 

[The Night Mammoth]

Demoiselle wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Through out the entire game the main objective is to "STOP the Reaper" its this phraze that is used repeatedly.

I've seen a good few people corrupting it into "destroy the reapers" to force their prefered Genocide ending.

One thing is true whatever ending you pick the Reapers are STOPPED.

This. This. This.

Seriously, I'm sick of people telling me that if Shep doesn't destroy the Reapers then they're going back on everything they stand for, compromising themselves, giving in to the Reapers ect.

You don't really have the capacity to believe anything else. 

'Shepard wanted to destroy the Reapers so she will pick the destroy option or they have compromised themselves' is not a good argument for destroy.

It's a pretty good argument, to be honest. Destroying the Reapers is the goal of Shepard and her allies. 

[H2Ape]

estebanus wrote...

There is no way of knowing if the reapers' cycle of mass extinction truly stops if they're left alive. After all, they themselves are intelligent beings, and in the case of synthesis, there is no catalyst/starchild to control them anymore. They would be a rogue faction. One that is known for committing heinous crimes throughout time.

In control, there is no safe way to know if Shepard can truly control the reapers, except the word of a little brat who is the leader of the enemy.

Destroy is the only one where you can be absolutely safe that the cycle will stop. The reapers will be no more. The galaxy will finally be free of their curse.

And then the galaxy will be wiped out by their synthetic creations. Is destroying the Reapers really worth killing all organics?

[The Night Mammoth]

H2Ape wrote...

estebanus wrote...

There is no way of knowing if the reapers' cycle of mass extinction truly stops if they're left alive. After all, they themselves are intelligent beings, and in the case of synthesis, there is no catalyst/starchild to control them anymore. They would be a rogue faction. One that is known for committing heinous crimes throughout time.

In control, there is no safe way to know if Shepard can truly control the reapers, except the word of a little brat who is the leader of the enemy.

Destroy is the only one where you can be absolutely safe that the cycle will stop. The reapers will be no more. The galaxy will finally be free of their curse.

And then the galaxy will be wiped out by their synthetic creations. Is destroying the Reapers really worth killing all organics?

No. 

Fortunately, synthetics are no more a threat to organic extistence than other organics are. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 mai 2012 - 08:22 .

[Vox Draco]

Let's see...we have three different choices to "stop" the Reapers...all choices are somehow made
by the fact the crucible is attached to the citadel..

Now the crucible was supposedly designed by all the races before, that have faced the Reapers and experienced the anihilation of their own entire species...the designers of the crucible saw their loved ones turned into husks, slaughtered, liquified. I think it is fair to say that the original intention of the crucible was to stop the Reapers by destroying them, to make sure this will never happen again...

Which means, as far as I am concerned, that "destroy" is the only true choice free of the catalysts meddling, the one that the crucible originally  was meant to achieve,

Synthesis and control, both ideas with "reaper-flavor", simply seem to be the result of meddling/sabotaging the crucible during former cycles...indoctrinated splinter groups etc...while destroy stays "true" to the original purpose...

So...you may "stop" the Reapers however you want to...I won't let them live...and every former cycle would surely agree with this decision...

[Karimloo]

I'm pretty sure when Shepard said

"and I'm going to find a way to stop them"

He didn't have philosopical meaning to "stop" them. He wanted to "stop" them with a gun. Or several.

Don't play with words just to further a dead cause.

[Lord Goose]

You not understand that is there way of imposing order. That still ties to the relay trap the orginally had. It's all about order.

The catalyst is pretty clear, what the cycle is his creation, which was part of his solution of chaos problem. On the other hand, he admits what Shepard must provide new solution.

The thing your saying is"Shepard is in charge, he won't let it happen."
The thing you not getting is this statemeant...."You will DIE , you will control us but you'll lose everything you have"...
What does that mean? Is their a limit to what Shepard loses? What of his memeory and his persona? Wouldn't that mean he's a blank state now

Only if you assume, that he also lost his memories and personality. On the other hand, if he is in completely blank state and failed to change anything... when, why would Reaper leave Earth? If the cycle is continues, harvesting should be procceded and where is no way to end reaper's threat.

[Lord Goose]

He didn't have philosopical meaning to "stop" them. He wanted to "stop" them with a gun. Or several.

Don't play with words just to further a dead cause.

But you've to admit what if Reapers would just go far away, it it would be know what they won't return (by some kind of deus ex machina), he wouldn't be willing to pursue them for the sake of their destruction.

[estebanus]

H2Ape wrote...

estebanus wrote...

There is no way of knowing if the reapers' cycle of mass extinction truly stops if they're left alive. After all, they themselves are intelligent beings, and in the case of synthesis, there is no catalyst/starchild to control them anymore. They would be a rogue faction. One that is known for committing heinous crimes throughout time.

In control, there is no safe way to know if Shepard can truly control the reapers, except the word of a little brat who is the leader of the enemy.

Destroy is the only one where you can be absolutely safe that the cycle will stop. The reapers will be no more. The galaxy will finally be free of their curse.

And then the galaxy will be wiped out by their synthetic creations. Is destroying the Reapers really worth killing all organics?

Shepard already proved the catalyst wrong when s/he united the geth and quarians. There is no reason to think that it will eventually happen.

The catalyst doesn't know that synthetics will eventually wipe out all organics, does it? It has never let it come to that, which means that it can't predict anything with 100% accuracy.

It would be just like me saying "Since human males and females can reproduce, humanity will never go extinct!"

Modifié par estebanus, 11 mai 2012 - 08:30 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Lord Goose wrote...

He didn't have philosopical meaning to "stop" them. He wanted to "stop" them with a gun. Or several.

Don't play with words just to further a dead cause.

But you've to admit what if Reapers would just go far away, it it would be know what they won't return (by some kind of deus ex machina), he wouldn't be willing to pursue them for the sake of their destruction.

Depends. 

Can they return, and is their destruction also an option?