323 réponses à ce sujet

[huntsman2310]

Genius.

There is only one way to stop a race of hyper advanced AI intelligences that harvest organics every 50,000 years.

Wreck 'em.

[ZIPO396]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

Destroy and Control may not truly stop the Reapers.

So the Reapers somehow rebuild themselves if they're destroyed?

No, all the species indoctrinated by the dead Reapers rebuild them.

So the dead Reapers can still somehow control things and give them orders? And no the one in number 2 doesn't count it was just mostly dead not completely. Besides I think the galaxy would notice... Eventually.

Well, we have two examples of dead Reapers that idoctrinate organics. The one in ME2 is especially important because it's supposed to tell you that these machines are inherently malicious, everything about them is evil, corruption is in their very nature, hence all the Lovecraft refrences. 

Two examples of mostly dead Reapers indoctrinating organics. I still hold to the idea that an actually dead Reaper can't do anything. They aren't gods just machines. We even know how their idoctrination works. Further point not all organics have been indoctrinated like they could have been E.. Shepard. Could be random statistical immunity thou.

[H2Ape]

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

Destroy and Control may not truly stop the Reapers.

So the Reapers somehow rebuild themselves if they're destroyed?

No, all the species indoctrinated by the dead Reapers rebuild them.

So the dead Reapers can still somehow control things and give them orders? And no the one in number 2 doesn't count it was just mostly dead not completely. Besides I think the galaxy would notice... Eventually.

I'm just saying that there's more proof that they can than there is that they can't. And I don't think the galaxy would notice since there would be so many dead Reapers lying around. I'm pretty sure that each cluster is occupied by Reapers when you head back to Earth. And what about the Leviathan of Dis?

[CrazyRah]

I stop the Reapers through their destruction so i'm all good

[The Night Mammoth]

ZIPO396 wrote...
Two examples of mostly dead Reapers indoctrinating organics. I still hold to the idea that an actually dead Reaper can't do anything. They aren't gods just machines. We even know how their idoctrination works. Further point not all organics have been indoctrinated like they could have been E.. Shepard. Could be random statistical immunity thou.

I know they aren't gods, but the point of that mission was to reveal just how evil the Reapers really were. Even when dead, and yes, they were dead, they still caused people to go insane just by being near them. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 mai 2012 - 10:33 .

[ZIPO396]

H2Ape wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

Destroy and Control may not truly stop the Reapers.

So the Reapers somehow rebuild themselves if they're destroyed?

No, all the species indoctrinated by the dead Reapers rebuild them.

So the dead Reapers can still somehow control things and give them orders? And no the one in number 2 doesn't count it was just mostly dead not completely. Besides I think the galaxy would notice... Eventually.

I'm just saying that there's more proof that they can than there is that they can't. And I don't think the galaxy would notice since there would be so many dead Reapers lying around. I'm pretty sure that each cluster is occupied by Reapers when you head back to Earth. And what about the Leviathan of Dis?

I'd say Dis one is just damaged as well and not actually dead like the one in 2 is dead. The materials required to fix one would be pretty extreme. Eventually someone will notice something. I'm just saying when something is dead it can't do anything. We have plenty of proof of that to. But using that argument. We currently have no proof of aliens there for they can't possibly exist despite there being a near infinate amount of stars and planets orbiting them.

[Psychlonus]

Genocide? The word doesn't apply. The word 'genocide' , which implies injustice, only applies when you are destroying a group that has individuals within it that want to co-exist with you.

[Erield]

Calibrations Expert wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Stop by destroying them, you should listen to the conversations with the Illusive Man.

Also, whilst the Reaper threat is over.......... maybe, since they're actually alive in two of the three endings, I wouldn't exactly call it a victory.

Because killing an extra species in the meantime is totally a victory.

There is no victory at the end of ME3 as it stands right now.  None.  To argue that there is any kind of victory is overlooking several significant factors that have been argued half to death in the last month or two.  The very best that can be claimed is that the galaxy achieved a Pyrhhic Victory for their Cycle.

[Baa Baa]

Committing genocide on a race of beings that have murdered unthinkable amounts of people. And all of them have participated.... I don't see what's to complain about.

[GiarcYekrub]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

Destroy and Control may not truly stop the Reapers.

So the Reapers somehow rebuild themselves if they're destroyed?

No, all the species indoctrinated by the dead Reapers rebuild them.

So the dead Reapers can still somehow control things and give them orders? And no the one in number 2 doesn't count it was just mostly dead not completely. Besides I think the galaxy would notice... Eventually.

Well, we have two examples of dead Reapers that idoctrinate organics. The one in ME2 is especially important because it's supposed to tell you that these machines are inherently malicious, everything about them is evil, corruption is in their very nature, hence all the Lovecraft refrences. 

Evil is a foreign concept in Mass Effect. There is no Good and Evil, Just differing agendas and values, just because you stepped on some ants doesn't make you inherently malicious, half the time you might not even realised that you were doing it.

[legion999]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Through out the entire game the main objective is to "STOP the Reaper" its this phraze that is used repeatedly.

I've seen a good few people corrupting it into "destroy the reapers" to force their prefered Genocide ending.

One thing is true whatever ending you pick the Reapers are STOPPED.

Except in control and synthesis where the Reapers are still around.

Modifié par legion999, 11 mai 2012 - 10:44 .

[Erield]

Psychlonus wrote...

Genocide? The word doesn't apply. The word 'genocide' , which implies injustice, only applies when you are destroying a group that has individuals within it that want to co-exist with you.

You are so ****ing wrong that it is actually making my brain vomit.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/genocide said...

gen-o-cide (jen-uh-sahyd)
noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

There is no multiple choice to pick from.  There is nothing about injustice.  There is nothing about a group that wants to co-exist with you.  The tutsis and hutus in Africa did not want to coexist.  What they have done to each other is not an 'injustice;' it's ****ing genocide.

Picking Destroy is genocide--you are killing the Reapers, you are killing the Geth, and you are killing EDI.  There is an argument to be made that EDI counts as a species in and of herself, even if it's just a species of one. 

[legion999]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

Destroy and Control may not truly stop the Reapers.

So the Reapers somehow rebuild themselves if they're destroyed?

No, all the species indoctrinated by the dead Reapers rebuild them.

So the dead Reapers can still somehow control things and give them orders? And no the one in number 2 doesn't count it was just mostly dead not completely. Besides I think the galaxy would notice... Eventually.

Well, we have two examples of dead Reapers that idoctrinate organics. The one in ME2 is especially important because it's supposed to tell you that these machines are inherently malicious, everything about them is evil, corruption is in their very nature, hence all the Lovecraft refrences. 

Evil is a foreign concept in Mass Effect. There is no Good and Evil, Just differing agendas and values, just because you stepped on some ants doesn't make you inherently malicious, half the time you might not even realised that you were doing it.

Except the Reapers know what they're doing. And from what I know I haven't gone out of my way to wipe out a species of ant.

[dreman9999]

How does control and synthesis stop the reaper?

[ZIPO396]

legion999 wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Well, we have two examples of dead Reapers that idoctrinate organics. The one in ME2 is especially important because it's supposed to tell you that these machines are inherently malicious, everything about them is evil, corruption is in their very nature, hence all the Lovecraft refrences. 

Evil is a foreign concept in Mass Effect. There is no Good and Evil, Just differing agendas and values, just because you stepped on some ants doesn't make you inherently malicious, half the time you might not even realised that you were doing it.

Except the Reapers know what they're doing. And from what I know I haven't gone out of my way to wipe out a species of ant.

What the Reapers do isn't corruption thou. It's the retuning of the mind to suggestions via subsonic frequencys and a whole bunch of other crap. So if it's truly dead not like the ones that have been mostly dead it shouldn't be able to do anything. So the indoctrinated will either stand around like vegitables afterward or be able to continue depending on how much of their freewill was damaged.

Modifié par ZIPO396, 11 mai 2012 - 10:47 .

[Psychlonus]

Erield wrote...

Psychlonus wrote...

Genocide? The word doesn't apply. The word 'genocide' , which implies injustice, only applies when you are destroying a group that has individuals within it that want to co-exist with you.

You are so ****ing wrong that it is actually making my brain vomit.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/genocide said...

gen-o-cide (jen-uh-sahyd)
noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

There is no multiple choice to pick from.  There is nothing about injustice.  There is nothing about a group that wants to co-exist with you.  The tutsis and hutus in Africa did not want to coexist.  What they have done to each other is not an 'injustice;' it's ****ing genocide.

Picking Destroy is genocide--you are killing the Reapers, you are killing the Geth, and you are killing EDI.  There is an argument to be made that EDI counts as a species in and of herself, even if it's just a species of one. 

Outside of the reapers, there's no such thing as a group that contains no individuals that want to co-exist.

[H2Ape]

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

Destroy and Control may not truly stop the Reapers.

So the Reapers somehow rebuild themselves if they're destroyed?

No, all the species indoctrinated by the dead Reapers rebuild them.

So the dead Reapers can still somehow control things and give them orders? And no the one in number 2 doesn't count it was just mostly dead not completely. Besides I think the galaxy would notice... Eventually.

I'm just saying that there's more proof that they can than there is that they can't. And I don't think the galaxy would notice since there would be so many dead Reapers lying around. I'm pretty sure that each cluster is occupied by Reapers when you head back to Earth. And what about the Leviathan of Dis?

I'd say Dis one is just damaged as well and not actually dead like the one in 2 is dead. The materials required to fix one would be pretty extreme. Eventually someone will notice something. I'm just saying when something is dead it can't do anything. We have plenty of proof of that to. But using that argument. We currently have no proof of aliens there for they can't possibly exist despite there being a near infinate amount of stars and planets orbiting them.

I don't think the materials required to fix the Reapers would be that extreme, they spark red and fall over, not explode. The evidence from the games show that Reaper dead is different from organic dead since they can still push their agenda from beyond the grave.

[The Night Mammoth]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Evil is a foreign concept in Mass Effect. There is no Good and Evil, Just differing agendas and values, just because you stepped on some ants doesn't make you inherently malicious, half the time you might not even realised that you were doing it.

Evidently it's not.

That entire sequence in the derelict Reaper introduces the concept. The Reapers are evil in nature. What they do, they do with full knowledge of the consequences, full awareness of their actions.

If I step on an ant I may have no idea I stepped on it, but if I see I stepped on it I'll feel regret. I would never deliberately kill an ant or any other living organism unless it threatens mine of another's existance and there's no alternative course of action. 

[The Night Mammoth]

ZIPO396 wrote...
I'd say Dis one is just damaged as well and not actually dead like the one in 2 is dead. The materials required to fix one would be pretty extreme. Eventually someone will notice something. I'm just saying when something is dead it can't do anything. We have plenty of proof of that to. But using that argument. We currently have no proof of aliens there for they can't possibly exist despite there being a near infinate amount of stars and planets orbiting them.

Then I guess it depends on whether you define the Reaper's as dead or not in those two situations. 

They clearly were, to me, so indoctrination is a risk. 

[ZIPO396]

H2Ape wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

So the dead Reapers can still somehow control things and give them orders? And no the one in number 2 doesn't count it was just mostly dead not completely. Besides I think the galaxy would notice... Eventually.

I'm just saying that there's more proof that they can than there is that they can't. And I don't think the galaxy would notice since there would be so many dead Reapers lying around. I'm pretty sure that each cluster is occupied by Reapers when you head back to Earth. And what about the Leviathan of Dis?

I'd say Dis one is just damaged as well and not actually dead like the one in 2 is dead. The materials required to fix one would be pretty extreme. Eventually someone will notice something. I'm just saying when something is dead it can't do anything. We have plenty of proof of that to. But using that argument. We currently have no proof of aliens there for they can't possibly exist despite there being a near infinate amount of stars and planets orbiting them.

I don't think the materials required to fix the Reapers would be that extreme, they spark red and fall over, not explode. The evidence from the games show that Reaper dead is different from organic dead since they can still push their agenda from beyond the grave.

The evidence we have is that they can push their agenda from while there near the grave not actually dead. They aren't magic. Just advanced. "Listen to yourself you're indoctrinated."
Well the ones moving in space are gonna keep moving till they hit something so they probs wont survive that to well. I can just see how much damage one of those will take without it's masseffect fields on to when it falls to Earth even the ones already on the ground would take significan't damage. Plus if I was one of the guys on the ground I would of shot the hell out of them some more.

Modifié par ZIPO396, 11 mai 2012 - 10:58 .

[essarr71]

^

those are YOUR values. To an Alien species, killing lesser beings might be just as evil as making toast in the morning. Good & Evil are subjective. Reapers are evil from out perspective. They, however, think they're good guys.

[ZIPO396]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...
I'd say Dis one is just damaged as well and not actually dead like the one in 2 is dead. The materials required to fix one would be pretty extreme. Eventually someone will notice something. I'm just saying when something is dead it can't do anything. We have plenty of proof of that to. But using that argument. We currently have no proof of aliens there for they can't possibly exist despite there being a near infinate amount of stars and planets orbiting them.

Then I guess it depends on whether you define the Reaper's as dead or not in those two situations. 

They clearly were, to me, so indoctrination is a risk. 

I'd say an idividual who is paralysed and can only blink is alive. Which is basically the equivelent. Except they're not blinking but using low frequency suggestions to indoctrinate people.

[H2Ape]

dreman9999 wrote...

How does control and synthesis stop the reaper?

I don't think control stops them. The control ending could still lead to technological singularity and Shepard deciding to bring back the Reapers so that organic life may continue. Shepard could also just let synthetics wipe out organics, making him/her a total jerk. You lose either way.

Destroy makes you lose because the dead Reapers indoctrinate organics and force them to rebuild the Reapers, or technological singularity happens and organic life is wiped from the face of the galaxy.

Synthesis does stop the Reapers because there's no point in them coming
back. Technological singularity won't happen and life will continue
forever.

[Erield]

Psychlonus wrote...

Erield wrote...

Psychlonus wrote...

Genocide? The word doesn't apply. The word 'genocide' , which implies injustice, only applies when you are destroying a group that has individuals within it that want to co-exist with you.

You are so ****ing wrong that it is actually making my brain vomit.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/genocide said...

gen-o-cide (jen-uh-sahyd)
noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

There is no multiple choice to pick from.  There is nothing about injustice.  There is nothing about a group that wants to co-exist with you.  The tutsis and hutus in Africa did not want to coexist.  What they have done to each other is not an 'injustice;' it's ****ing genocide.

Picking Destroy is genocide--you are killing the Reapers, you are killing the Geth, and you are killing EDI.  There is an argument to be made that EDI counts as a species in and of herself, even if it's just a species of one. 

Outside of the reapers, there's no such thing as a group that contains no individuals that want to co-exist.

Wishing co-existence is not a requirement for genocide.  Your argument makes no sense.  I'm not saying that I'm opposed to killing all Reapers--just know that it is genocide.  Don't try and call it anything but that.  I mean, Star Brat uses his "Solution" and "Ascension," but it's still genocide.  And he's a dick for trying to make it sound like it's not whole-sale slaughter, like it's somehow better or different.

[Shallyah]

Shepard "The Illusive Man is attempting to Control the Reapers. He thinks that is how we win."
Hackett: "He is wrong. Dead Reapers is how we win."

/thread

Modifié par Shallyah, 11 mai 2012 - 11:07 .