59 réponses à ce sujet

[Will Moor]

OK, first off, I would like to say that I love the Zev character a LOT, and as a gay man, I do not feel that he is a "cop out" or anything of the sort, and until I came to this forum, I have not known any single gay, bi or gay romance loving straight person (and I know quite a few of those, believe it or not), who felt that way.  Zev is a tremendous leap forward for gay and bisexual male players in a very positive way and I want to thank you, BioWare, from the bottom of my heart.  Please keep this sort of content coming and know that you have MANY grateful fans and NEW fans/customers because of this.   Others can scoff if they want about those who would buy this game soley because it offers gay romance, but but the fact of the matter is that I know people who are buying it soley because of this.  Those who want to dislike them for it can feel free to do so.  Anyway, BioWare, I don't feel that I can properly convey to you how grateful I am for this, so all I can say is THANK YOU.  You have given us a gay/bi male romance that is every bit as fleshed out as the straight ones, in my opinion, and for that I simply cannot express how grateful I am.  I adored Sky from Jade Empire, but he left me wanting more (what we did get was really good though, don't get me wrong, I am a big Sky fan here).  With Zev, you kept your word.  I took part in the gay romance begging  that has gone on for years for this game and you always said that if you did make a bisexual character, this time it would make sense for the character and not be a conditional thing, where he was only bi if the PC was gay, etc.  You truly kept your word.  You also said that you would do something real this time around and make it all make sense for the character.  You did that.  Everything about the romance fits with who Zev is, in my humble opinion.  You did a fantastic job.  So, one more time, THANK YOU.  BEST of all you DIDN'T BLACK out the kissing or the love making scenes.   ::Thunderous applause for that::

The ONLY thing I would change about Zev is the inability to kiss him in public, and that's it.  Zev is who he is and everything else seems pefect to me.  The good news is that you have very generously released modding tools to us and I am sure it will be possible to kiss Zev eventually!    And that brings me to the next part of this post. 

Now to my question.  Does anyone know of a mod, or if a mod is in the works, that will allow a gay character who is in a romance with Zev kiss him in public?  I have been able to have characters kiss Alistair and Morrigaine in public (or at least be given the option, which of course is refused if another party member objects), but I am unable to get them to do that with Zev.  I haven't tried the Leliana romance yet, so I don't know what options are available for her there.  

[Fryce]

No but there is a mod to make Alistair become more of a free lover shall we say:wub:? It could be fun while you wait for a Zev one

Thanks to Zev I look at leather from a whole new perspective :innocent:

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=127

Edit: I agree wholeheartedly though even though Im straight its about damn time games started evolving to accomodate everybody but where are the ASIAN flavours in DA:Os character builder?...enough straight white male heroes or heroines with ZZZZZ Bra sizes. Jebus.

Modifié par SharpneI, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:28 .

[Allyahnah]

I agree whole heartedly with the love of the bisexual character. It's such a huge step forward in the acceptance of bi and homosexuality. Major kudos to you, Bioware!

[Null]

He's actually a pretty good character despite what other people say about him. After he told me about his final mission I started liking him a lot.

[Statulos]

Here in the little gaming comunity of Bloomington (Indiana), this game has been appreciated by a lot of people, also non-gamers because the possibility of homosexual romances. In my book it is perfectly fine, actually; it gives me more posibilities to develop a character.



Zevran is kind of weird to my ears; is the voice actor really trying to sound Southern Italian? Becase the accent is exactly the one I had (I´m from Spain) when I started learning English.

[Allyahnah]

Statulos wrote...

Zevran is kind of weird to my ears; is the voice actor really trying to sound Southern Italian? Becase the accent is exactly the one I had (I´m from Spain) when I started learning English.

How YOU doin? ;p

[Tarante11a]

Will Moor wrote...

Now to my question.  Does anyone know of a mod, or if a mod is in the works, that will allow a gay character who is in a romance with Zev kiss him in public?  I have been able to have characters kiss Alistair and Morrigaine in public (or at least be given the option, which of course is refused if another party member objects), but I am unable to get them to do that with Zev.  I haven't tried the Leliana romance yet, so I don't know what options are available for her there.  

If it's any consolation he won't kiss the ladeez in public either, I think it's the PDA aspect he doesn't like.  I guess he might be worried in case some gorgeous being walks past and catches his eye, they might be less receptive if they think he's already attached.

[Inakhia]

SharpneI wrote...

No but there is a mod to make Alistair become more of a free lover shall we say:wub:? It could be fun while you wait for a Zev one

Thanks to Zev I look at leather from a whole new perspective :innocent:

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=127

Edit: I agree wholeheartedly though even though Im straight its about damn time games started evolving to accomodate everybody but where are the ASIAN flavours in DA:Os character builder?...enough straight white male heroes or heroines with ZZZZZ Bra sizes. Jebus.

<< My char is slightly tweaked from the default female asian build in the CC. No idea if they have a similar default for the male, but couldn't imagine why not. Did use a mod which expanded on the skin tones and gave the eyes a bit more noticeable colour. Have no idea which one of the top of my head tho.

[Doc Faust]

I agree with the sentiment of including a male/male gay option in the game as good (and, for that matter, I found Lilianna's flirting with Morrigan absolutely delightful), however, I disagree with the idea that Bioware pulled it off perfectly. Certainly, Zevran is a great stride forward for gay relationships in RPGs (and, hell, the media in general) but it nevertheless remains true that, apart from him, there is absolutely no gay interaction in the game. The fact that Zevran was, litterally, the only choice for gay/ bisexual players interested in a relationship was severely disapointing. Alastair was just as pretty, and his personality fit better with certain RP styles, and he even hints (rather cruelly) at some degree of potential (I'm looking at you "I look quite fetching in a dress" line), but there isn't even the option of flirting with him availiable.

Speaking of flirting, I was disapointed by the fact that you couldn't flirt with any other males in the game, other than Zevran. Even if they aren't gay, your character doesn't know that and might not actually care-- getting Sten to shut up with a well placed bit of inuendo would have been absolutely priceless.

This also gives rise to a sad double standard which was still there in the previous major bioware title (Mass Effect): Lesbians have tons of support compared to male homosexuals, with lots of extra NPC's availiable for a lesbian PC to flirt with.

Oh, and on the topic of another good bit of gay interaction you can get from the game: seducing the prison guard after you get captured in Denerim is independant of gender. I felt this to be an absolutely magnificent way of showing that "bisexuals do exist in Ferelden" even if it wasn't quite going far enough. And I suppose there was the optional male prostitues, but I'm not certain that should count.

Anyway, Zevran was a start, but he wasn't going far enough. Offer us some more options in the future, Bioware! Gay guys are homosexuals too! (also people, but you already seem to have that part down at least)

[Will Moor]

SharpneI, thanks for the heads up, I will download that. While its kind of a "trick", it might make for some very fun screen shot opportunities. lol

Tarante11a, it does make me feel better, and I figured it might be something like that. I am by no means angry that BioWare didn't include public kissing, nor did I feel that it was in any way a slight on gay males by any means. And it probably does just fit with his character, but, I would still like a mod that allows it anyway. I am greedy that way. lol

Mueller86, yeah, I don't get the people that complain about him. Kill-joys that they are.

Statulos, I love his accent. It reminds me of Antonio Banderas, to an extent. lol

Doc, while you make some good points, we can't expect everything all at once, in my humble opinion, and as far as I am concerned, BioWare made a MASSIVE, pioneering step forward. Something Bethesda and Wizard's of the Coast certainly have not done yet. At least not in any significant way that I am aware of. And while I wasn't trying to say that Zev was the perfect guy (none of the romance options are in any way, shape or form, perfect partners, as far as I am concerned unless Leliana turns out to be, I haven't tried her yet) he was done very nearly perfectly for who he is.

Also, while it may not be in the game, per se, the game setting itself has lore dealing with homosexual relationships. Supposedly, at some point, an Orlesian Emperor and Orlesian King of Ferelden were lovers. And interestingly enough, its not even the fact that they were both male that gave people pause. That is something I find very interesting and very positive.

And we cannot forget the interesting reason why Branka left her husband behind when she went searching for the Anvil.

Frankly, the only other mainstream game I personally know of that has more gay friendly content is The Sims and its sequels. :-D

Modifié par Will Moor, 09 décembre 2009 - 08:05 .

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Perhaps I am just too damn straight, Doc, but I didn't really see a problem. Zevran was relaxed with who he was as was Leliana. I think there are only four lesbian women in the game, then you have the gay couple, Wade and Herran. Actually read the Wade's armor description, it is fabulous.



Counting ****s, Zevran speaking of male prostitutes in Antiva, Wade and Herran, and that guard who swings both ways, I don't know what your complaint is. Are you mad that not every other guy is gay or what? Seriously, explain your annoyance since I found that they depicted a sexual minority with a decent amount of respect and humor.

[ChemicalGreen]

I'd say not really an annoyance, just that with make PC you can flirt with NPC ladies and visa versa with female PC. Not really too many options for that in same sex PC/NPC dialogues. As hetero, you can pursue an image of outrageous flirt/femme fatale to much higher degree than if you're playing gay. And there's nothing wrong with wanting those options.

[noretus]

I didn't realize Wade was gay. He certainly does speak with his pinky in the air but it never crossed my mind... oh well.



But yeah, adding my thanks for Zevran and the general equality ( I do view the game to be fairly equal when it comes to straight/bi/gay content ) of it all. Very very fun. I hope and want to see MOAR in the future!

[Fryce]

Inakhia wrote...

SharpneI wrote...

No but there is a mod to make Alistair become more of a free lover shall we say:wub:? It could be fun while you wait for a Zev one

Thanks to Zev I look at leather from a whole new perspective :innocent:

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=127

Edit: I agree wholeheartedly though even though Im straight its about damn time games started evolving to accomodate everybody but where are the ASIAN flavours in DA:Os character builder?...enough straight white male heroes or heroines with ZZZZZ Bra sizes. Jebus.

<< My char is slightly tweaked from the default female asian build in the CC. No idea if they have a similar default for the male, but couldn't imagine why not. Did use a mod which expanded on the skin tones and gave the eyes a bit more noticeable colour. Have no idea which one of the top of my head tho.

Oh nice cool info thank you! Lead me to find the mods which are CC Extra Tints and Tones and the Chargen Pack In case anyone else is intrested :happy:

@OP you are welcome, enjoy and if you do get a good pic post here:

http://social.biowar...47/index/367423

Theres a really ace one on the 2nd page, you can't miss it

[Dunhart]

I offer praise to Bioware for giving us that option as well. Personally, I didn't like Zevran very much and found Alistair a lot more charming (therefore, I immediately thought that he should have been the bisexual one ), but as much as I like to whine about that, I'm truly grateful for not having to play just as a female character to experience a personally appealing romance anymore. And you can always cheat a little to get a M/M romance with Alistair.



True equality is still a far off dream, but this gives me hope. Even though it's starting to look like ME 2 won't have anything but another F/F romance with an asari for the heterosexual male crowd.



My hat is off for you, guys.

[Dunhart]

noretus wrote...

I didn't realize Wade was gay. He certainly does speak with his pinky in the air but it never crossed my mind... oh well.

They don't actually say it in that many words, but they do talk like a married couple and have somewhat effeminate ways of talking. Also Herren is played by Cam Clarke.

[Rhys Cordelle]

I was one that fell for Alistair >< He's just so darn adorable. BUT I am glad that each character has their sexuality, and that it's not "everyone's bi" like in the sims.



Thankyou Bioware for not ignoring us 'gaymers' It really does mean a lot to me

[Creature 1]

Doc Faust wrote...
Speaking of flirting, I was disapointed by the fact that you couldn't flirt with any other males in the game, other than Zevran. Even if they aren't gay, your character doesn't know that and might not actually care-- getting Sten to shut up with a well placed bit of inuendo would have been absolutely priceless.

This also gives rise to a sad double standard which was still there in the previous major bioware title (Mass Effect): Lesbians have tons of support compared to male homosexuals, with lots of extra NPC's availiable for a lesbian PC to flirt with.

Oh, and on the topic of another good bit of gay interaction you can get from the game: seducing the prison guard after you get captured in Denerim is independant of gender. I felt this to be an absolutely magnificent way of showing that "bisexuals do exist in Ferelden" even if it wasn't quite going far enough. And I suppose there was the optional male prostitues, but I'm not certain that should count.

Heterosexual males find lesbians more arousing than gay men (at least unless they're just in denial themselves).  Thus the greater visibility of lesbians in games.  IMO if more women made games you'd probably see more parity for all orientations. 

In the human noble origin if you play male you can flirt with a male NPC (with great sublety--I told him my character's favorite book was the Fereldan version of the Kama Sutra and offered to tell him some of the contents) and later wake up in bed with him.  Sadly, there was no real future for that relationship! 

[Andraste_Reborn]

In the Human Noble origin, you can apparently sleep with Dairren regardless of your character's gender, so that's another random bisexual male NPC. (The woman he's with - I forget her name - is bi as well.)



There are some things about BioWare's treatment of LGBT characters that I feel could use improvement, but they are far, far ahead of most game developers and deserve praise and encouragement for that.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Statulos wrote...

Here in the little gaming comunity of Bloomington (Indiana), this game has been appreciated by a lot of people, also non-gamers because the possibility of homosexual romances. In my book it is perfectly fine, actually; it gives me more posibilities to develop a character.

Zevran is kind of weird to my ears; is the voice actor really trying to sound Southern Italian? Becase the accent is exactly the one I had (I´m from Spain) when I started learning English.

That's because he is supposed to sound Spanish. Antiva is based mostly on medival Spain, and some of Italy. Zevran is definitely the "Spanish" side of Antiva. Ignacio is more the "Italian". So your ears are not deciving you: Zev, in Thedas terms, is a Spaniard. (I'm not Spanish, but I am currently living in Spain, and the actor did a very good version of a Spanish accent. Sounds just like the locals when they speak English).

I don't understand the Zev hate, either. I adore him. I actually am considering playing a male character so i can romance him as a gay character. I tried playing a bisexual female and romanced leliana, but she really creeped me out.

[Dunhart]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I don't understand the Zev hate, either. I adore him. I actually am considering playing a male character so i can romance him as a gay character.

For me, the problem is that he's charactherized as a sort of a free spirit with a ballistic libido and seemingly very loose grasp on fidelity. While he'd be awesome as a friend or an occasional 'fling', I don't know if I could consider entering a real life relationship with someone like that without constantly worrying he might sleep around with anyone who looks at him in the right way. Even though he does eventually fall in love with you, I got the "they stayed together for a while" ending with him, which is totally unsatisfying for me.

Alistair, on the other hand, is something of a polar opposite to Zevran.

Modifié par Dunhart, 09 décembre 2009 - 02:09 .

[ChemicalGreen]

Eh, I got the happily ever after ending with Zevran. He's a tricky though to get to really fall head over heels for your PC.



I find it quite adorable how after he gives you the earring he doesn't want come to your tent any more. Gives a whole new meaning to "Does this mean we're married in Antiva?" dialogue option I got when he gave the earring to me. =D

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Dunhart wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I don't understand the Zev hate, either. I adore him. I actually am considering playing a male character so i can romance him as a gay character.

For me, the problem is that he's charactherized as a sort of a free spirit with a ballistic libido and seemingly very loose grasp on fidelity. While he'd be awesome as a friend or an occasional 'fling', I don't know if I could consider entering a real life relationship with someone like that without constantly worrying he might sleep around with anyone who looks at him in the right way. Even though he does eventually fall in love with you, I got the "they stayed together for a while" ending with him, which is totally unsatisfying for me.

Alistair, on the other hand, is something of a polar opposite to Zevran.

That's assuming that a person wants a "fidelity" relationship. There are people who prefer an open relationship going both ways for both parties, still remain in love while sampling other's wares. People do that often enough, and Zevran gives that option for people not interested in an exclusive long term relationship.

I think it would have been better to make Alistair bisexual as well, and thus, give gay characters that option for a monogomous relationship (Morrigan for females seeking an open relationship, since Leliana is quite possessive and jealous). Thus, a gay character has choices, depending on their own view of love and relationships.

But I like Zev as is. In my playthrough, I have a fling with him, but end up with Alistair for the long haul. But while it is limiting and a bit unfair to offer gay male players a "love of your life forever and ever" option, I still applaud Bioware for even giving gay males the option for romance or sex at all, given that the gaming world in general seems to cater towards heterosexual males with adolecent sexual frustrations and acute homophobia. The fact that it aknowledges homosexuality in men at all is pretty refreshing.

With any hope, it will pave the way for more games to employ this in the future, perhaps with far more options.

[Antikristine]

Dunhart wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I don't understand the Zev hate, either. I adore him. I actually am considering playing a male character so i can romance him as a gay character.

For me, the problem is that he's charactherized as a sort of a free spirit with a ballistic libido and seemingly very loose grasp on fidelity. While he'd be awesome as a friend or an occasional 'fling', I don't know if I could consider entering a real life relationship with someone like that without constantly worrying he might sleep around with anyone who looks at him in the right way. Even though he does eventually fall in love with you, I got the "they stayed together for a while" ending with him, which is totally unsatisfying for me.

Alistair, on the other hand, is something of a polar opposite to Zevran.

As I wrote in the other Zevran thread, I have a little different view on Zevran. I do however agree that he appears to be the "bad boy" you don't really want to be in a relationship with. But what is interesting is how he changes, and that he actually seems to be interested in something more in the end of the day. His attitude is a defense mechanism, and if he falls for your PC, it is a serious thing for him.

That said, I believe the "at least for some time" ending is not necessarily negative. Since the text says "at least" which doesn't implies anything for certain, it seems as if the narrator doesn't know what happened after the story of the game is over.

(edit:missing word)

Modifié par Antikristine, 09 décembre 2009 - 02:40 .

[Statulos]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Statulos wrote...

Here in the little gaming comunity of Bloomington (Indiana), this game has been appreciated by a lot of people, also non-gamers because the possibility of homosexual romances. In my book it is perfectly fine, actually; it gives me more posibilities to develop a character.

Zevran is kind of weird to my ears; is the voice actor really trying to sound Southern Italian? Becase the accent is exactly the one I had (I´m from Spain) when I started learning English.

That's because he is supposed to sound Spanish. Antiva is based mostly on medival Spain, and some of Italy. Zevran is definitely the "Spanish" side of Antiva. Ignacio is more the "Italian". So your ears are not deciving you: Zev, in Thedas terms, is a Spaniard. (I'm not Spanish, but I am currently living in Spain, and the actor did a very good version of a Spanish accent. Sounds just like the locals when they speak English).

I don't understand the Zev hate, either. I adore him. I actually am considering playing a male character so i can romance him as a gay character. I tried playing a bisexual female and romanced leliana, but she really creeped me out.

I´ll put it in Sten´s terms: no.

Nevara (if you live there you know that Navarra is a real place) is the kingdom based on the Iberian ones. Sorry but I refuse to say "medieval and Spain" in the same sentence. Castile, Aragon, Navarra, Portugal or Granada/any other Taifa or muslim dominion; but not Spain.
Nevertheless, if you read the codex about Nevara, the clues about it being based upon Iberian kingdoms are incredibly evident: from the dragon slaying thing (Don Quijote, Amadís de Gauala and other novel) to his brutally elaborated toombs and pantheons where the local andrastean cults do not cremate, but bury (and that is Counter-Reform style of the Baroque).

Antiva is inspired by the Kingdom of the Two Sicilys in particular and the Italian republics and duchies in general. The Crows are a guild of thugs that may remind you of the mafia.

Modifié par Statulos, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:52 .