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[Maria Caliban]

Sajji wrote...

So that hunk of girl meat James Vega and his mountainous biceps gets ignored, eh?

I must have missed the part where they dressed him in skin-tight latex and panned the camera over the outline of his well formed genitals.

[upsettingshorts]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

No Bioware game has anything to match this:

www.youtube.com/watch

...a cinematic trailer?  

At least KoP was talking about the actual game.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 mai 2012 - 10:27 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

slimgrin wrote...
I've no idea why they included ******. It doesn't offend me, just funny. But I will defend the Miranda sex scene and her black bra. Just plain sexy. There should be more of this in their games when it comes to romance.

When it comes to sex and nudity, the scene in ME1 was one of my favorites. Done with tact, elegance and it was simply nice (the actual scene, not what's leading up to it, even though I liked it personally).

The scene in ME1, imo, seemed to be a good compromise between the ridiculousness of DA'O's sex and TW2's sex that some might find too much (I don't).

But then of course we had people complaning about side boobs.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 mai 2012 - 10:28 .

[TheMufflon]

Sajji wrote...

The DA side write their 3 sentence narrative summary, and TW2 side write their 3 sentence summary.

As opposed to the current arrangement, viz. the exact opposite?

[ipgd]

Sajji wrote...

Could somebody in three sentences describe DA2's plot, and somebody in three sentences describe TW2's plot? The DA side write their 3 sentence narrative summary, and TW2 side write their 3 sentence summary.

What would this accomplish, for either side of the argument?

Are you under the influence of drugs?

[Maria Caliban]

Sajji wrote...

Could somebody in three sentences describe DA2's plot, and somebody in three sentences describe TW2's plot? The DA side write their 3 sentence narrative summary, and TW2 side write their 3 sentence summary.

A refugee flees to Kirkwall. They become the champion of the city and defend it from threats. They fail to prevent an event and the city is torn apart by conflict, which impacts the greater world.


An assassin kills a king and frames a witcher. The witcher investigates the assassination and becomes embroiled in regional politics. At a conference, everything falls apart and the region is splintered as a greater threat makes itself known.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

When it comes to sex and nudity, the scene in ME1 was one of my favorites. Done with tact, elegance and it was simply nice (the actual scene, not what's leading up to it, even though I liked it personally).

Liara's sex scene in ME 3 is possibly the best I've seen in a video game.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 12 mai 2012 - 10:32 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

ipgd wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Could somebody in three sentences describe DA2's plot, and somebody in three sentences describe TW2's plot? The DA side write their 3 sentence narrative summary, and TW2 side write their 3 sentence summary.

What would this accomplish, for either side of the argument?

Are you under the influence of drugs?

The idol did it.

Yea, I don't see the point of it either. Though I do believe that TW2's plot is more focused. DA2 seemed to have 3 seperate plots that are not as well connected as they should have been.

I still believe that the Qunari should have been removed entirely and have Act 2 focus on the mage / templars especially the mage resistance. It would have made the game so much better.

[upsettingshorts]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The scene in ME1, imo, seemed to be a good compromise between the ridiculousness of DA'O's sex and TW2's sex that some might find too much (I don't).

I am going to have to explain exploitation aren't I?

It's not about "too much."  It's about the disparity in costumes for men and women, the standards of nudity for both, the context in which both (or one) of them are nude in a scene, the camera angles, how long the camera lingers, the role the camera's perspective and focus plays with the scene (especially if it's facilitating the male gaze), and yes the duration of the scenes in question.

That's why it's not a simple question of the level of nudity or sex in media, it's also why it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is something that must be recognized for what it is.  

The Witcher, and CDPR, gets a lot of press (and acclaim) for essentially exploiting what are basic exploitation tropes, both sex and violence, because this makes them darkier and ediger.  You can read that as being a positive or a negative, however it remains essentially fact.  

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The idol did it.

All the idol appeared to do was drive one person mad and facilitate Meredith's control of the statues in her boss battle.

Meredith's decisions in Act 3 were already in character for her.  If its influence pushed her over the edge, it was because she was already standing on it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 mai 2012 - 10:34 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

No Bioware game has anything to match this:

www.youtube.com/watch

...a cinematic trailer?  

At least KoP was talking about the actual game.

A cinematic trailer that wipes the floor with every single Bioware trailer. And it's the actual game intro.

[Aeowyn]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
I've no idea why they included ******. It doesn't offend me, just funny. But I will defend the Miranda sex scene and her black bra. Just plain sexy. There should be more of this in their games when it comes to romance.

When it comes to sex and nudity, the scene in ME1 was one of my favorites. Done with tact, elegance and it was simply nice (the actual scene, not what's leading up to it, even though I liked it personally).

The scene in ME1, imo, seemed to be a good compromise between the ridiculousness of DA'O's sex and TW2's sex that some might find too much (I don't).

But then of course we had people complaning about side boobs.

Fact is, that apart from the full frontal nudity in the intro you can avoid having sex with anyone in TW2. There are no ninjasexing and no sex cards. CDPR took the criticism regarding the sex cards and sleeping with absolutely everyone in TW1 and made it more tasteful in TW2. And people who say there are no strong female characters in TW2 obviously haven't played the game.

[Lenimph]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Liara's sex scene in ME 3 is possibly the best I've seen in a video game.

This 

[Sajji]

ipgd wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Could somebody in three sentences describe DA2's plot, and somebody in three sentences describe TW2's plot? The DA side write their 3 sentence narrative summary, and TW2 side write their 3 sentence summary.

What would this accomplish, for either side of the argument?

Are you under the influence of drugs?

Insulting me over a video game. Extremely mature.

[Yrkoon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Obviously those who say that women in TW2 exist only to give males hard ons didn't play the game.

Or maybe they've  played the game and  are  just generalizing to make a point..


As a whole, the Ladies of TW2 are strong, deeply embedded in the plot, refreshingly  dynamic, and very deliberately there to advance the political plot..

  But Specifically, I can  point you to a couple that, despite their  story-roles in the game, are (lets be honest here) specifically  put in the game to give males hardons.  (sex sells, remember?)

1)  Ves.  You meet her about 5 minutes into the prologue, she's wearing a low cut top, as she walks in the door.  10 seconds later, we get an ass shot, as she turns around, in her impossibly skin-tight pants, and leaves.    Fast forward to Chapter 1.  You can talk to Ves.  What stories does she have to tell you?  Stories about sex of course.  Specifically, one where she talks, in detail,  about her decision to   not suck men's penises for a living.  And that's why she joined the Blue stripes.  Fast Forward to Chapter 2.  You can F**k Ves.   And that event  marks the  end of her significance in the game, as after you bed her, she ceases to have any notable role in the rest of the game's plot. funny, that.

Question:  would the story have worked just as well if she had been   a not-so-pleasing-to-the-eyes elite of the Blue stripes?  Of course.   I mean, ALL the other members are meh-looking, but they get the job done just fine.

2) Philippa  Eilhart -  Lesbian chick.  Hot as any sorceress in the Witcher 2.  has a huge role in the plot.  But also has a lover, and, obviously, because we men want it, we get to see her  in action *twice*.  Once in a massage scene with another chick, and the second time in a BDSM scene with another chick.  I rest my case.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 12 mai 2012 - 10:46 .

[Khayness]

Sajji wrote...

Could somebody in three sentences describe DA2's plot, and somebody in three sentences describe TW2's plot? The DA side write their 3 sentence narrative summary, and TW2 side write their 3 sentence summary.

DA2: You escape from the Blight, and try to support your family however you can (Act 1). With your newfound wealth and social status you get dragged into city affairs and do some Kirkwall savin' (Act 2). Stupid evil mages and stupid evil Templars do stupid evil things, you kill tons of dudes, Orsino turns into a blob and Meredith goes JRPG super villain with a sword forged out of an evil MacGuffin. Yeah, Act 3 sucked.

There was less focus on an overarching plot, but as a mini series it existed.

Modifié par Khayness, 12 mai 2012 - 10:36 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The scene in ME1, imo, seemed to be a good compromise between the ridiculousness of DA'O's sex and TW2's sex that some might find too much (I don't).

I am going to have to explain exploitation aren't I?

It's not about "too much."  It's about the disparity in costumes for men and women, the standards of nudity for both, the context in which both (or one) of them are nude in a scene, the camera angles, how long the camera lingers, the role the camera's perspective and focus plays with the scene (especially if it's facilitating the male gaze), and yes the duration of the scenes in question.

I was not implying that you thought this. "Only you would think that I am talking about you"

Game of Thrones is the same in that regard. We never see a penis, but we see vaginas. 
Sadly, it's the case for most media. Including ME1, we get to see female side boob and a shot of an ass, but not the male.

And yes in that regard I agree, TW2 is exploitative. But it's no where near unique, all Bioware games have it to one degree or another.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 mai 2012 - 10:36 .

[Aeowyn]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

No Bioware game has anything to match this:

www.youtube.com/watch

...a cinematic trailer?  

At least KoP was talking about the actual game.

A cinematic trailer that wipes the floor with every single Bioware trailer. And it's the actual game intro.

I wouldn't call it a game intro really. It's a cinematic trailer that they added after the usual company logo screens and it's skipable. The trailer is impressive, but I'm more impressed by The World of The Witcher - trailer.

[Maria Caliban]

Trailers are neat but have jack all to do with the game.

[AlanC9]

slimgrin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I can only comment on TW1, but in response to that game alone I find your analysis laughable.  Sex cards exist and there is no justifying them.  Seriously, if I was going to do a project that attempted to detail misogyny and exploitation in video games I'd start with TW1.  

This is one of the rare times I disagree with you. Sure, the cards are a bit immature. But I thought they served a useful function anyway. Having sex is a rewarding activity in a way that making your RPG character have sex just isn't. I thought it was a good thing to have a reward system attached to the sex. Even if --- especially if -- you decide that collecting those rewards isn't a worthwhile thing to do.

I'm convinced the cards were simply budget alternatives to cut scenes. The problem with sex in TW1 was the sheer number of times Geralt got laid and the ease with which he could.

Maybe. Wouldn't bug me if it was true. I'm hardly against abstracting stuff out in RPGs. Depending on which stuff gets abstracted out, that is.

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 mai 2012 - 10:36 .

[Aeowyn]

Yrkoon wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Obviously those who say that women in TW2 exist only to give males hard ons didn't play the game.

Or maybe they've  played the game and  are  just generalizing to make a point..


As a whole, the Ladies of TW2 are strong, deeply embedded in the plot, refreshingly  dynamic, and very deliberately there to advance the political plot..

  But Specifically, I can  point you to a couple that, despite their  story-roles in the game, are (lets be honest here) specifically  put in the game to give males hardons.  (sex sells, remember?)

1)  Ves.  You meet her about 5 minutes into the prologue, she's wearing a low cut top, as she walks in the door.  10 seconds later, we get an ass shot, as she turns around, in her impossibly skin-tight pants, and leaves.    Fast forward to Chapter 1.  You can talk to Ves.  What stories does she have to tell you?  Stories about sex of course.  Specifically, one where she talks, in detail,  about her decision to   not Suck men's penises for a living.  And that's why she joined the Blue stripes.  Fast Forward to Chapter 2.  You can F**k Ves.  That's her character climax  in the game, as after you bed her, she ceases to have any notable role in the rest of the game's plot.

Question:  would the story have worked just as well if she had been a  a not-so-pleasing-to-the-eyes elite of the Blue stripes?  Of course.   I mean, ALL the other members are meh-looking, but they get the job done just fine.

Eh... she talks about how she was saved by being offered to join the Blue Stripes because, as an orphan young woman, prostitution would have been her only other option. Which frankly, considering how the world of TW is setup, makes sense. 

[Sajji]

If people liked that TW2 trailer, they'll love Dishonored's cinematic trailer.

[TheMufflon]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I am going to have to explain exploitation aren't I?

It's not about "too much."  It's about the disparity in costumes for men and women, the standards of nudity for both, the context in which both (or one) of them are nude in a scene, the camera angles, how long the camera lingers, the role the camera's perspective and focus plays with the scene (especially if it's facilitating the male gaze), and yes the duration of the scenes in question.

I've always liked to explain exploitation film making with a quote that has been attributed to a number of producers of such films: "Yes, but can't they have that conversation in a strip club?".

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yrkoon wrote...
1)  Ves.  You meet her about 5 minutes into the prologue, she's wearing a low cut top, as she walks in the door.  10 seconds later, we get an ass shot, as she turns around, in her impossibly skin-tight pants, and leaves. 

I agree that I do not like Ves' outfit. Nor do I like Saskia's.

I disagree that sex with Ves is the climax of her character. That happens at the end of Act 2. The problem is, they didn't give Ves closure.

And I disagree about Ves' motivations to join the blue stripes.

2) Philippa  Eilhart -  Lesbian chick.  has a huge role in the plot.  But also has a lover, and, obviously, because we men want it, we get to see her  in action *twice*.  Once in a massage scene with another chick, and the second time in a BDSM scene with another chick.  I rest my case.

I disagree. The BDSM scene was done for a purpose.

1. Characterization of Philippa. She's a sadist who uses sex as an isntrument of power.
2. Shows the relationsipo between Philippa and Cynthia, which is plot essential.
3. If you notice Philippa's desk, in that scene it no longer had a plot essential figurine that Cynthia steals. How does Cynthia distract Philippa? Sex.

Yes it was in part silly, Geralt's silly smile I see as CDPR poking fun at themselves. But it served a purpose within the plot and the setting.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 mai 2012 - 10:41 .

[ipgd]

Sajji wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Could somebody in three sentences describe DA2's plot, and somebody in three sentences describe TW2's plot? The DA side write their 3 sentence narrative summary, and TW2 side write their 3 sentence summary.

What would this accomplish, for either side of the argument?

Are you under the influence of drugs?

Insulting me over a video game. Extremely mature.

It wasn't an insult, it was an honest question.

[TheMufflon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Game of Thrones is the same in that regard. We never see a penis, but we see vaginas. 

Actually, we see several. Penises, that is.

[slimgrin]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The scene in ME1, imo, seemed to be a good compromise between the ridiculousness of DA'O's sex and TW2's sex that some might find too much (I don't).

I am going to have to explain exploitation aren't I?

It's not about "too much."  It's about the disparity in costumes for men and women, the standards of nudity for both, the context in which both (or one) of them are nude in a scene, the camera angles, how long the camera lingers, the role the camera's perspective and focus plays with the scene (especially if it's facilitating the male gaze), and yes the duration of the scenes in question.

That's why it's not a simple question of the level of nudity or sex in media, it's also why it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is something that must be recognized for what it is.  

The Witcher, and CDPR, gets a lot of press (and acclaim) for essentially exploiting what are basic exploitation tropes, both sex and violence, because this makes them darkier and ediger.  You can read that as being a positive or a negative, however it remains essentially fact.  

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The idol did it.

All the idol appeared to do was drive one person mad and facilitate Meredith's control of the statues in her boss battle.

Meredith's decisions in Act 3 were already in character for her.  If its influence pushed her over the edge, it was because she was already standing on it.

The thread to divide them all on CDPR forums was about female exploitation, so even TW fans don't agree on this. I personally recognize an uninhibited desire to show skin, sex, and violence whenever they want, but since it's nearly always in context to the story, I've no problem with it.  Trying to be clever with Miranda's ass is not the same as showing Triss naked from head to toe. I still don't think TW2 is exploitative.

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 mai 2012 - 10:43 .