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[Cutlass Jack]

android654 wrote...

@Cutlass Jack and which would those be? The sex scenes or the element of sex is rather important to the examples I gave.

Just video games? Mona Sax and Max Payne's sex scene us pretty symbolic and defining of the character. It tes back to the story's origin and further solidifies the poison that Max Payne really is.

I can't believe In saying this but with the exception of Tali, Garrus and Jacob, all ofthe Me1 and ME2 romances help to develop those characters further in a way that wouldn't be possible without romancing them. Same for the DA series.

But we weren't talking romances. The original quote was in relation to Sex Scenes being vital to the plot. And I couldn't think of a single example where actually showing a sex scene was vital in a game's plot.  Hence my question.

Romances in ME definately furthered the plot, but the actual sex scenes were not vital to that. The knowledge that relationships moved forward the important part. A fade to black can cover that just as well as a fully shown sex scene. Obviously many prefer one over the other but its not 'vital.' Especially since its at best a sideplot to the overall story.

I'll accept your Max Payne example, since I'm not directly familiar with the scene. But sounds reasonable.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 13 mai 2012 - 04:45 .

[android654]

The sex scene takes place in ME2, so counting past that doesn't hold the same importance as things that happened. Also a friendly dance isn't the same as sharing about your life. I already agreed that it doesn't affect the main plot, but it helps develop the individual character in a way that they wouldn't have.

[slimgrin]

Cutlass Jack wrote...


Romances in ME definately furthered the plot, but the actual sex scenes were not vital to that. The knowledge that relationships moved forward the important part. A fade to black can cover that just as well as a fully shown sex scene. Obviously many prefer one over the other but its not 'vital.' Especially since its at best a sideplot to the overall story.

Name me sex scenes that are vital to a plot. I've already done this.

Modifié par slimgrin, 13 mai 2012 - 04:50 .

[Mr.House]

android654 wrote...

The sex scene takes place in ME2, so counting past that doesn't hold the same importance as things that happened. Also a friendly dance isn't the same as sharing about your life. I already agreed that it doesn't affect the main plot, but it helps develop the individual character in a way that they wouldn't have.

If it's vital then it should happen no matter what, it does not, so it's not vital. It just adds depth but you do not need to see it to like the character or be a fan of them. Triss yes, because no matter what Geralt and Triss always are fricken together(much to my dismay, wish CDp would let me kill the redhead)

[Mr.House]

slimgrin wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...


Romances in ME definately furthered the plot, but the actual sex scenes were not vital to that. The knowledge that relationships moved forward the important part. A fade to black can cover that just as well as a fully shown sex scene. Obviously many prefer one over the other but its not 'vital.' Especially since its at best a sideplot to the overall story.

Name me sex scenes that are vital to a plot. I've already done this.

So having sex with Miranda helped you beat the Reapers?

[Sajji]

Triss is a great character. I would love games with me playing as her.

[Mr.House]

Sajji wrote...

Triss is a great character. I would love games with me playing as her.

Triss was ok in the books. CDp ruined her in the games and have made her so fricken unbearable.

[slimgrin]

Mr.House wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...


Romances in ME definately furthered the plot, but the actual sex scenes were not vital to that. The knowledge that relationships moved forward the important part. A fade to black can cover that just as well as a fully shown sex scene. Obviously many prefer one over the other but its not 'vital.' Especially since its at best a sideplot to the overall story.

Name me sex scenes that are vital to a plot. I've already done this.

So having sex with Miranda helped you beat the Reapers?

It helps establish your PC's relation with her, which is indeed a plot point. I cannot for the life of me understand this need for justification when it comes to sex or nudity.

[android654]

Cuz ****** are dirty? I dunno, but people have these weird reactions to sex or nudity. They either deem it dirty or unnecessary or find some reason to make them seem like they're above it.

I don't know about the rest of you, but a work of fiction that has a romance arc without any high point in that romance is rather pointless. Since all the games that have that have adult protagonists, I think sex is rather appropriate for the story.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Mr.House wrote...

So having sex with Miranda helped you beat the Reapers?

It helps reduce the distraction, thereby increasing the probability of winning the battle by a decent margin.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 13 mai 2012 - 05:02 .

[LPPrince]

This has to do with the backlash how?

[Sajji]

Miranda's hiney = win

[Persephone]

slimgrin wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
When in the world do sex scenes have to be vital to the plot?

They. Never. Are.

But good luck finding   a graphic sex scene in a game that wasn't put there  for any reason but to erotically entertain men like us.  And no, TW2 isn't  the unique exception here, no matter how vehement people  are in their claims  that TW2's sex eye candy serves some "story purpose" or whatever ridiculous nonsense.

Edit:  I forgot, I'm here, so I have to type out a disclaimer, lest I be misunderstood again.  I love, absolutely love sex, nudity and all types of eroticism in  my games.    I'm the type of gamer who always downloads the nude mods.  So what is my point?

My point is that the following is BS:

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Obviously those who say that women in TW2 exist only to give males hard ons didn't play the game.

^this one's  vision is clouded by  love of the game.  Any rational observer of TW2 can clearly see a deliberate and  distinct  difference between the generic, unnamed women in TW2, which are all  butt ugly, and then the Named, f**kable, or otherwise  sex-content-containing NPCs being really really hot. 

Look. In Bioware's games we have mushy, lovey dovey realtionships. Then, we grind in our underware. In CDPR games, we f*ck for the sake of it, and believe there needs to be no justification. Two different world views to be sure. 

Let's see about the mushy relationships:

DAO:

Alistair: A co-dependent guy who puts you on a pedestal and gets abusive if you ever step out of line. Yes, healthy & mushy.

Zevran: A guy who wants to kill you offering casual bed warming. He has been abused for many years and so forth. He may even betray you, even IF you slept with him. Very healthy & mushy too.

Leliana: A religious extremist, former bard spouting of visions and who gets jealous at the drop of a hat. Her romance is...anything but mushy.

Morrigan: A manipulative seduction (Ludicrously cliche) turning into more without a happy ending. Hardly mushy.

ME: Just picking the highlights

Kaidan: Starts out in a mushy way, yet it grows as the game years go by. Nothing in TW, not Triss nor Shani, can compare at all.

Ash: Traumatized and and insanely ambitious, romancing this tough lass is anything but mushy. She reduces Triss to...yeah, the doe-eyed simpering tool she is in TW2.

Thane: There is a lot of tragedy here, yet no mush. A GUY weeping in front of his gal? Admitting he is afraid? Effin' impressive.

Garrus: Nothing mushy or lovey dovey here, Vakarian is another word for BADASS.

And none of the romances in DAII is lovey dovey, mushy or healthy. (Isabela's being the sanest....)

ETC.

You want to talk about lovey dovey mush? Eh, Shani throwing a tantrum about "that sorceress" even if I never romanced Shani herself? Yeah, that is SO edgy. Or Triss moaning like a mediocre pornstar when she tries to be seductive? That is....incredibly innovative.

Casual sex in a video game wasn't invented by The Witcher. Hundreds of Hentai Games did it before & better. (I.E. the superbly written "Crescendo")

Modifié par Persephone, 13 mai 2012 - 05:44 .

[TEWR]

I have absolutely no ****ing idea what's being discussed right now. I came into this thread expecting one thing and found a discussion that really made me stare at my screen and blink like crazy.

Not that I'm complaining. I'm just baffled what the last 5 or so pages have been about.

So in response to the OP: Probably. I'm incredibly wary right now of what DAIII will be like.

[LPPrince]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I have absolutely no ****ing idea what's being discussed right now. I came into this thread expecting one thing and found a discussion that really made me stare at my screen and blink like crazy.

Not that I'm complaining. I'm just baffled what the last 5 or so pages have been about.

So in response to the OP: Probably. I'm incredibly wary right now of what DAIII will be like.

Bioware couldn't of expected any reaction other than "wary" to be honest.

Not after what's transpired.

[Yrkoon]

Addai67 wrote...


So if you're going to criticize something about TW2's story, find something substantial.  We'll wait.

5,  Five per thread is my limit to the number of times I will repeat myself.  Here's #5:   I thought TW2 was a fantastic game.  one of the best I've played in the last decade

Which means.... you won't see me find anything substantial to criticise about the game.  Why?  2 reasons.  1) when a game is that good, there's isn't a substantial criticism to be found, and 2) when people like you continue to have serious trouble understanding points, and reading posts, and grasping concepts,  further  explanations become a waste of  my time.

But I'm the king of time wasting so here goes, for you.  Ready?  

Get this through your head now.    Or,   re-read this thread beginning at about page  6.  Every single post  I have made has been a response to a claim someone else has made.  In other words, if you're looking for me to "criticise"  something substantial, you're going to have to wait until someone  else posts something substantially erroneous about TW2.  Then you'll see me pounce on that.

And by the way,

Addai67 wrote...
And so is the idea that Ves and Philippa exist for boners. If you said that about Isabela, I'd like to see the DA2 crowd here respond.

  There's no great mystery here.  No wild hypothetical.   I can tell you precisely how they'd respond.  They'd respond exactly the same way you just did about Ves and Philippa.  Accusing me of  "wild exaggerations", and then they'd spit out some noise about how She's part of the plot, she's deep, she has her own motivations  (as if this matters.  All characters in a game have been put there for the player).

I know this for a fact.  I've caused such a discussion to happen about 200 times  here since March of 2011.

You, and  those said-DA2/Isabela fans are flat out wrong though.   Or in pure denial.   It's not an exageration.  At all.  It's called reality.  There are distinct personalities  and visuals that Sell games.  Sex is one of them.  You can argue that such personalities can, and often do, serve multiple roles in a game.  And that's fine, but until you have the guts to come out and claim that these characters have dual roles and one of them  (the erotic role) wasn't intended, you don't have an argument.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 mai 2012 - 06:20 .

[Addai]

The fact that these women are sexual, and that that is showed in the game, is completely irrelevant. They don't exist *just* for that purpose- or do you mean to say Geralt is just there for sex appeal because we can see him have sex? I don't even know why it's necessary to go into it. At this point this line of discussion is dumb and we're both burning brain cells.

[Yrkoon]

Addai67 wrote...

The fact that these women are sexual, and that that is showed in the game, is completely irrelevant.

...said the female gamer.


Guys tend to think differenty

Addai67 wrote...
They don't exist *just* for that purpose-

Sure.  Just about all of them  also contribute to the plot.  But again, unless you're going to argue that their erotic nature wasn't  specifically designed,  and specifically intended, you don't have an argument.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 mai 2012 - 06:29 .

[Mr.House]

slimgrin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...


Romances in ME definately furthered the plot, but the actual sex scenes were not vital to that. The knowledge that relationships moved forward the important part. A fade to black can cover that just as well as a fully shown sex scene. Obviously many prefer one over the other but its not 'vital.' Especially since its at best a sideplot to the overall story.

Name me sex scenes that are vital to a plot. I've already done this.

So having sex with Miranda helped you beat the Reapers?

It helps establish your PC's relation with her, which is indeed a plot point. I cannot for the life of me understand this need for justification when it comes to sex or nudity.

It's not vital to do so.You can be her friend and still establish a relonship between the two.

[Mr.House]

Addai67 wrote...

The fact that these women are sexual, and that that is showed in the game, is completely irrelevant. They don't exist *just* for that purpose- or do you mean to say Geralt is just there for sex appeal because we can see him have sex? I don't even know why it's necessary to go into it. At this point this line of discussion is dumb and we're both burning brain cells.

Triss has been reduced to a piece of meat CDp wants to shove down our throats, why did the game has to start off with her buttass naked yet Geralt is wearing pants?

[Addai]

Yrkoon wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

The fact that these women are sexual, and that that is showed in the game, is completely irrelevant.

...said the fermale gamer.


Guys tend to think differenty

You mean to tell me that if a man sees a woman's ****** then nothing else about her exists- that all her qualities, good and bad- her entire life experience, and any other interaction they might have, is reduced to two headlights. She doesn't exist as a person.

This discussion itself is more puerile than anything in any game I've ever played.  And I'm still not sure what your point is.

[Maria Caliban]

Yrkoon wrote...

You can argue that such personalities can, and often do, serve multiple roles in a game.  And that's fine, but until you have the guts to come out and claim that these characters have dual roles and one of them  (the erotic role) wasn't intended, you don't have an argument.

Yrkoon, does Philipa serve a single use, that of being sexy, or does she serve multiple roles?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

A long rambling debate centered mostly on the sexualisation and merits of romantic interaction of a game and how it compares to BioWare's games. Posters focusing on semantics to the point where they deliberately ignore the greater argument made by those they disagree with. Dismissive passive aggression clearly coloured by bias - for game or company - as if they are personally attacked.

And the occasional gem amongst it all.

This thread needs to be saved for posterity and handed out to all the mods. Because this is exactly what will flood the forums when DA 3 hits.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 13 mai 2012 - 06:42 .