634 réponses à ce sujet

[hoorayforicecream]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Someday, I want the games people talk about at work to be BioWare games. I hear about the FPS soldiering games to the point where I'm going to buy one of the Black Ops games. I hear about Angry Birds style game, and I hear about GTA when those games are new and I'm still hearing abour RDR, long after release. DAO, ME1... never, ever, ever going to generate as much interest as the FPS soldering games, or GTA/RDR games. But ME3 and ME2? DA2? Those are really solid steps toward presenting a game that I might hear my co-workers and my friend's friends talking about. If it takes a couple tearstorms to get to the place where RPGs are of interest to regular players, than so be it. Bring on the tears.

I've worked at several offices where Bioware's games were the topic of many conversations (both analysis and criticism), though I admit that I do work in the games industry which affects watercooler conversation somewhat. It may just be the sort of games your coworkers and second-degree friends are into.

[Addai]

Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...

Great job everyone, wasting 22 pages and hours of your life in this topic.

Well, if Witcher games have forced seksual scenes, I prefer not to get it.

In TW2 you have one scene where you see a woman naked and they're about to get it on before they're interrupted.  All other pixel bumping is optional.

Giminy Christmas.  You'd think that this was an Amish gaming board.

[Yrkoon]

Addai67 wrote...
In TW2 you have one scene where you see a woman naked and they're about to get it on before they're interrupted.  All other pixel bumping is optional.

Damn, you're right.  The 2 scenes where you walk in on Philippa and Cynthia are optional.   No wait.  They're not.
Triss' "decompression" scene is optional.  No wait it isn't.

Giminy Christmas.  You'd think that this was an Amish gaming board.

D'oh!  and I was *just* about to  note  that this thread has gone a record 2 full pages without anyone  bullsh**ing their way through with  a straw man.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 mai 2012 - 06:48 .

[Persephone]

Yrkoon wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
In TW2 you have one scene where you see a woman naked and they're about to get it on before they're interrupted.  All other pixel bumping is optional.

Damn, you're right.  The 2 scenes where you walk in on Philippa and Cynthia are optional.   No wait.  They're not.
Triss' "decompression" scene is optional.  No wait it isn't.

Can't you avoid Triss going pornstar on you by not telling her that she "needs a bath" (What kind of stupid pickup line is that anyway?)???

[Yrkoon]

Persephone wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
In TW2 you have one scene where you see a woman naked and they're about to get it on before they're interrupted.  All other pixel bumping is optional.

Damn, you're right.  The 2 scenes where you walk in on Philippa and Cynthia are optional.   No wait.  They're not.
Triss' "decompression" scene is optional.  No wait it isn't.

Can't you avoid Triss going pornstar on you by not telling her that she "needs a bath" (What kind of stupid pickup line is that anyway?)???

Yeah, you can.    And just to be clear, the  other scene with Geralt and Triss, ( the scene that Addai is talking about) isn't a sex scene anyway.  It's just a "sitting in bed talking" scene.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 mai 2012 - 07:13 .

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...
The only game you can argue wasn't made with the most casual audience in mind for its generation was DA:O, and that game was (mechanically speaking) way more the successor of KoTOR than BG-BGII.

With some MMORPG mechanics thrown in --- aggro management, etc. Do those guys count as "casuals"? I suppose these days those are lowest-common-denominator mechanics just like D&D was 15 years ago.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 mai 2012 - 07:17 .

[Sajji]

Will DA3 receive a metacritic bomb again?

[The Jackal]

It's not exactly a hard science. The game at least speaking for myself personally blew me away with (Knights of Old Republic. The Non MMO One) I was hooked on that game and was not aware it was made by that team. Again on Dragon Age Orgins I was in awe about the choices, being interactive..then came DA2...

It all sometimes comes down with "Greed" they had a fine product, like a car the first one worked fine. The engine a metaphor for the game formula was great. They tweaked it with chat roulette instead of acting on a "personal choice deciding the outcome " we slowly moved to "how we answered the reaction was the choice" I was not impressed.

I want the feel of old game back. The problem isn't the marketing or casual games. It's them trying to appeal to combat RPG, and hardcore crowd. (Any that has seen wow expansion cata is well aware how to kill off 2 million subs and growing) ..any future games that bring a back any negative press will certainly add to it and I don't think it will kill them but possible less then bigger budgets the first time around. Then obviously investors will think twice before buying stock.

That in turn hurts the company. I want to but it's diffcult to have complete faith in a company that had rumored around 80-100 million, six year's of time to work on the storyline and writer's from all over the globe and SWTOR still wasn't the success that it was imagined to be.

I just hope they return to origin's forumula.

Modifié par JasonRocker, 13 mai 2012 - 08:10 .

[Costin_Razvan]

There is one thing MMO players look into when playing an MMORPG: Endgame gameplay and it sucked apparently. Too easy and a WoW Clone.

[Sajji]

I can almost bet EA is gonna tell BioWare to use an iteration of DICE's Frostbite 2 engine.

What would get me potentially interested is a non-voiced protagonist, actual good and complex looting, genuine effort above and beyond in the littlest of details and stat-based, twitch Dark Souls / The Witcher 2 combat with legitimate challenge and creativity and pause options.

Oh, and a darker, more serious atmosphere.

Then and only then will I consider investing $60, and then I'm still going to wait for player reviews.

[Darth Krytie]

Addai67 wrote...

Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...

Great job everyone, wasting 22 pages and hours of your life in this topic.

Well, if Witcher games have forced seksual scenes, I prefer not to get it.

In TW2 you have one scene where you see a woman naked and they're about to get it on before they're interrupted.  All other pixel bumping is optional.

Giminy Christmas.  You'd think that this was an Amish gaming board.

Some adults are asexual and choose not to want to roleplay sex. There's nothing wrong with that.

[The Jackal]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

There is one thing MMO players look into when playing an MMORPG: Endgame gameplay and it sucked apparently. Too easy and a WoW Clone.

Actually, tons of people rave with ideas that a game should have "Combat Logs"....."End Game" none of this is true. At least to me. My choice on TOR had nothing to do with raiding, as I do not raid. It had to do with warcraft like forumla. I did that for five years. (Running everyday get my daily) people just get bored of having mow down 20 thing's to get..item X..

Guild Wars 2 is a better example of what I expected personally from the game.

[Chromie]

JasonRocker wrote...
Actually, tons of people rave with ideas that a game should have "Combat Logs"....."End Game" none of this is true. At least to me. My choice on TOR had nothing to do with raiding, as I do not raid. It had to do with warcraft like forumla. I did that for five years. (Running everyday get my daily) people just get bored of having mow down 20 thing's to get..item X..

Guild Wars 2 is a better example of what I expected personally from the game.

Well an MMO should have combat logs if I raid I'd like to know what killed me and such but I agree TOR offers nothing WoW didn't already and frankly as bad at Metzen's writing has become it was still better than most of TOR's writing I think Vanilla WoW and BC were ok it wasn't until 2.4 that lore went to hell imo.

[_Aine_]

Sajji wrote...

Will DA3 receive a metacritic bomb again?

My word is wary.  I am wary.   Not because I think they are incapable, in fact, I think the opposite of their *capabilities*.  I do think though that the success of the first DA, coupled with EA's deadlines and seemingly wanting MORE over BETTER, equals less *willingness* to take the chances that *excellence* requires.  Anyone can use a formula and probably get a game that makes money, with the talent that they have anyway but it takes guts to make something better than the minimum that you can squeek through at the risk of failure because you took a chance. 

I'm just not sure they even want to do that anymore.  Most of the recent games are a study in formula gameplay for the sole purpose of consumerism.   Which is fine, just don't expect people who expect a higher level because *you* raised your own bar, to be satisfied when you lower the bar on them.   

I would love to be surprised though.  I enjoy rooting for the underdog and I know they can do better than DA2.  In fact, I really hope for better than DA2.  Personally though, I quit playing ME3 because I found it formulaed and uninspired.  I loved ME and ME2 though.     So, here's to hope.  =)    I guess every person and every company has a level that they aspire to, some people and places want to keep growing and getting better and some just want to make a successful product regardless of public opinion.  I can't really say either is wrong, I just know which I prefer.     

[termokanden]

AlanC9 wrote...

With some MMORPG mechanics thrown in --- aggro management, etc. Do those guys count as "casuals"? I suppose these days those are lowest-common-denominator mechanics just like D&D was 15 years ago.

Lowest common denominator sounds so negative, and I don't think D&D deserves that. In case someone thinks that's just because I didn't try other systems, that's way off.

But yes, DA:O had more to do with MMOs mechanically than the BG series or KotOR for that matter. I think their mistake was to take some of the ideas of modern MMOs and not give them a proper implementation. Aggro management for example was just not what it should have been.

[_Aine_]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Thankfully, I'm pretty sure the folks at BioWare are making the games they want to and aren't concerned with placating the great hand-wringing masses with half-measures and cheap compromises that would be scoffed at by the very people they are meant to please.

Sadly though a lot of those folks are the same people who equate intentional design decisions they don't like with unfortunate and unplanned quick-fixes so they probably think I'm defending DA2's encounter design or repeated environments or something.

Actually this is a very valid point, even though it somewhat lies at a parallel but different state than my own point    If indeed they are doing what they want, feel they have enough time to do their best work, and are being as creatively free as they feel they can be while under the constraints of good business practice (which is necessary), then I salute them.  =)     I also think that the weight of verbal expectations from us fans can build an unscalable wall of sorts.   They really are damned if they do, damned if they don't, despite themselves.    Still, I prefer those damn do's than the don'ts.  *grins*

I think at the end of the day they aren't wrong in using the commercial success of their work to dictate their future direction as business people despite anything they hear here to the contrary. The bottom line is the bottom line for a reason I guess....  Now, as artists and creators, sure they should expect to get better. But we artists are never happy with our work, almost ever.  =D    That is the unforgivable vanity I hear.  Hush hush, absinthe and closed doors and all that.  hehe  

I personally will give anything they do a shot to see if it jives with what I am liking at that moment.   I am not arrogant enough to believe that just because I don't like something it sucks, nor am I so easily pleased that I will accept something half-assed and call it a work of art when the truth is it is half assed from someone I respect who should do better than half assed because they CAN do better than that.  =D  

I liked your albatross line though.  I try not to be a feather in that wing, but I fear at times I am.   Still,  it is interesting to note that in the poem to be followed by an albatross was considered good luck, and the ill luck that befell the ship (in The Rime of the Ancient Mariner ) was more because some idiot shot the albatross than because of its own existence.    True story that!   

[The Jackal]

Skelter192 wrote...

JasonRocker wrote...
Actually, tons of people rave with ideas that a game should have "Combat Logs"....."End Game" none of this is true. At least to me. My choice on TOR had nothing to do with raiding, as I do not raid. It had to do with warcraft like forumla. I did that for five years. (Running everyday get my daily) people just get bored of having mow down 20 thing's to get..item X..

Guild Wars 2 is a better example of what I expected personally from the game.

Well an MMO should have combat logs if I raid I'd like to know what killed me and such but I agree TOR offers nothing WoW didn't already and frankly as bad at Metzen's writing has become it was still better than most of TOR's writing I think Vanilla WoW and BC were ok it wasn't until 2.4 that lore went to hell imo.

I think TOR offered a great deal wow did not.

1. Enchaned Graphics
2. Space Play
3. Interactive Compelling Storys
4. Moral Choices
5. Companion's that fight with you

That's just a list of five thing's. Wow isn't exactly doing great either it's been down over 2 million subs. I just wanted something that you could play and have fun without worrying about leveling up. Without the concern of grinding repeated boring quests.

You can have a MMO and have it be interactive without the horrible grind wow has. Guild Wars 2 is doing just that on a very tiny budget. After the 3rd time of leveling. My side quest's I already know in detail. The PVP gives a tiny tiny amount of EXP that's not worthy of spending 15 minutes there.

I'm not kicking it down. It has great moment's and compelling story. I think it would done great as a RPG game like Orgins but not on a whole massive scale community. It's fun to chat sometimes but mostly it's filled with trolls. I just hope their next game is really good.

[TheBlackBaron]

scyphozoa wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Will DA3 receive a metacritic bomb again?

At this point, there are enough vindictive ex-fans-turned-haters that I expect all future Bioware titles will have ratings bombed, regardless of how good the games are.

Precisely.

As I said several pages back, once you've gotten on the sh*tlist of the people prone to doing this sort of thing, it's very hard to get off. 

[Volus Warlord]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Will DA3 receive a metacritic bomb again?

At this point, there are enough vindictive ex-fans-turned-haters that I expect all future Bioware titles will have ratings bombed, regardless of how good the games are.

Precisely.

As I said several pages back, once you've gotten on the sh*tlist of the people prone to doing this sort of thing, it's very hard to get off. 

Mm.. it's kinda their own damn fault..

[Tirigon]

scyphozoa wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Will DA3 receive a metacritic bomb again?

At this point, there are enough vindictive ex-fans-turned-haters that I expect all future Bioware titles will have ratings bombed, regardless of how good the games are.

And it  still doesnt matter because only idiots care for a rating anyways. Reviews are interesting only for the description, and even that is to be taken with a lot of doubt.

[Chromie]

JasonRocker wrote...
1. Enchaned Graphics
2. Space Play
3. Interactive Compelling Storys
4. Moral Choices
5. Companion's that fight with you

 

1. Subjective and I would say WoW looks better. Much better looking water, lighting, textures and such. TOR looks ok not ugly but nothing special.
2. Meh it's a minigame I'd prefer  Star Wars Galaxies style space exploration/combat. At least this could really be something WoW won't ever be able to do but Bioware took the easy route.
3. Interactive? Sure. Compelling? Not to me it was just another grind at first it's great but the more bad writing I see the less I start to care seriously did you see do the Foundry? Revan wants to kill every single Sith now?
4. Most if not all I've experienced are black and white with no consequences. It's good to make a decision and in an MMO space they could have really taken it further but they didn't all it did was restrict me from some gear.
5. I felt more attached to my pet in Wow (on my Hunter) that I tamed since level 10 back in 2004 and kept since 2011. I've played classes with a companion so this isn't groundbreaking for me.

JasonRocker wrote... 
That's just a list of five thing's. Wow isn't exactly doing great either it's been down over 2 million subs. I just wanted something that you could play and have fun without worrying about leveling up. Without the concern of grinding repeated boring quests.

You can have a MMO and have it be interactive without the horrible grind wow has. Guild Wars 2 is doing just that on a very tiny budget. After the 3rd time of leveling. My side quest's I already know in detail. The PVP gives a tiny tiny amount of EXP that's not worthy of spending 15 minutes there. 

I'm not kicking it down. It has great moment's and compelling story. I think it would done great as a RPG game like Orgins but not on a whole massive scale community. It's fun to chat sometimes but mostly it's filled with trolls. I just hope their next game is really good.

 

WoW may have just lost 2 million subs but they stopped now and are at 10.2 million. TOR lost 400,000 out of what 1.7 million? Guess who's hurting more. 

I still don't see anything that sets ToR apart from WoW. TOR's endgame is the exact same minus the experience. TOR has boring quests and dailies just the same. Also with out the grind imo the game definitely suffered I saw people reaching level 50 in a matter of days. Ofcourse you see people who took longer I know Morrioan said it took him 2 months (?) to reach level 50 which is very short. I had more free time when I was in highschool to grind and level up to 60 when WoW first launched and it took me 7 months to reach it and even longer to just raid. TOR I managed to reach level 50 in a matter of weeks in less time and I didn't really do anything to prepare for hardmodes or raids. 

The worst thing about The Old Republic is Lucas Arts decided that only one Star Wars MMO could exist because Star Wars Galaxies was a completely different beast.

[Maria Caliban]

Darth Krytie wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

In TW2 you have one scene where you see a woman naked and they're about to get it on before they're interrupted.  All other pixel bumping is optional.

Giminy Christmas.  You'd think that this was an Amish gaming board.

Some adults are asexual and choose not to want to roleplay sex. There's nothing wrong with that.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to RP an asexual PC but the Witcher 2 has a predefined protagonist. He's a straight man who has had a large number of sexual encounters and is in a relationship with Triss.

Skelter192 wrote...

I still don't see anything that sets ToR apart from WoW.

Story. Companions. A morality system.

Skelter192 wrote...

I had more free time when I was in highschool to grind and level up to 60 when WoW first launched and it took me 7 months to reach it and even longer to just raid. TOR I managed to reach level 50 in a matter of weeks in less time and I didn't really do anything to prepare for hardmodes or raids. 

It takes a week to hit level 60 in World of Warcraft now and you can hit level 85 without raiding once.

MMOs have changed.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 13 mai 2012 - 10:58 .

[The Jackal]

Skelter192 wrote...

JasonRocker wrote...
1. Enchaned Graphics
2. Space Play
3. Interactive Compelling Storys
4. Moral Choices
5. Companion's that fight with you

 

1. Subjective and I would say WoW looks better. Much better looking water, lighting, textures and such. TOR looks ok not ugly but nothing special.
2. Meh it's a minigame I'd prefer  Star Wars Galaxies style space exploration/combat. At least this could really be something WoW won't ever be able to do but Bioware took the easy route.
3. Interactive? Sure. Compelling? Not to me it was just another grind at first it's great but the more bad writing I see the less I start to care seriously did you see do the Foundry? Revan wants to kill every single Sith now?
4. Most if not all I've experienced are black and white with no consequences. It's good to make a decision and in an MMO space they could have really taken it further but they didn't all it did was restrict me from some gear.
5. I felt more attached to my pet in Wow (on my Hunter) that I tamed since level 10 back in 2004 and kept since 2011. I've played classes with a companion so this isn't groundbreaking for me.

JasonRocker wrote... 
That's just a list of five thing's. Wow isn't exactly doing great either it's been down over 2 million subs. I just wanted something that you could play and have fun without worrying about leveling up. Without the concern of grinding repeated boring quests.

You can have a MMO and have it be interactive without the horrible grind wow has. Guild Wars 2 is doing just that on a very tiny budget. After the 3rd time of leveling. My side quest's I already know in detail. The PVP gives a tiny tiny amount of EXP that's not worthy of spending 15 minutes there. 

I'm not kicking it down. It has great moment's and compelling story. I think it would done great as a RPG game like Orgins but not on a whole massive scale community. It's fun to chat sometimes but mostly it's filled with trolls. I just hope their next game is really good.

 

WoW may have just lost 2 million subs but they stopped now and are at 10.2 million. TOR lost 400,000 out of what 1.7 million? Guess who's hurting more. 

I still don't see anything that sets ToR apart from WoW. TOR's endgame is the exact same minus the experience. TOR has boring quests and dailies just the same. Also with out the grind imo the game definitely suffered I saw people reaching level 50 in a matter of days. Ofcourse you see people who took longer I know Morrioan said it took him 2 months (?) to reach level 50 which is very short. I had more free time when I was in highschool to grind and level up to 60 when WoW first launched and it took me 7 months to reach it and even longer to just raid. TOR I managed to reach level 50 in a matter of weeks in less time and I didn't really do anything to prepare for hardmodes or raids. 

The worst thing about The Old Republic is Lucas Arts decided that only one Star Wars MMO could exist because Star Wars Galaxies was a completely different beast.

The difference is so big and vast they might as well be not oceans but worlds apart. Alright The custom creation is different from selecting the different background types. Also to the fighting style, this for example has flame leaping into the air. Bullets that heal you and glow neon green. The only thing that makes it similar is they are both MMO's.

TOR is stable and profitable with one million. Blizzard has only 4 million inisde the US. A majority of the subs are in China. It took Blizzard YEARS to reach the point to where it peaked at 10 million. It didn't happen overnight. The people leveling have different experiences.

For example in TOR i was leveling fairly quickly early on then they nerfed amount of experience you get for warzone's after beta and then the second time around it got  a lttle stale but I tried different lightside/dark options. The 3 time. I been playing him for almost 2 month's and he's only level 40. It in my thought has nothing to do with how fast or slow you level.

People need to feel united, ground like a dungeon finder. I think combat log's are a huge mistake. But to be on topic. If they failed with DA3 I'm not sure if they would have the same juice behind them. I hope they do. I am like bioware and rather have games on subpar level then not have them at all.

[Morroian]

Skelter192 wrote...

3. Interactive? Sure. Compelling? Not to me it was just another grind at first it's great but the more bad writing I see the less I start to care seriously did you see do the Foundry? Revan wants to kill every single Sith now?

 
This is subjective, and given the different writers is dependent on the character you choose. I've said before but the Imperial Agent story has great writing and the Jedi Knight is pretty good as well. As for Revan have you done Maelstrom Prison on the Republic side or read Revan. I don't like what they did with him but given his experiences he is pretty much insane by that time.

Skelter192 wrote...

4. Most if not all I've experienced are black and white with no consequences. It's good to make a decision and in an MMO space they could have really taken it further but they didn't all it did was restrict me from some gear.

  
This is a similar issue to DA2, the choices are morally ambiguous but the consequences aren't.

Skelter192 wrote...

I'm not kicking it down. It has great moment's and compelling story. I think it would done great as a RPG game like Orgins but not on a whole massive scale community. It's fun to chat sometimes but mostly it's filled with trolls.

  
This is server dependent.

Skelter192 wrote...

I still don't see anything that sets ToR apart from WoW. TOR's endgame is the exact same minus the experience. TOR has boring quests and dailies just the same. Also with out the grind imo the game definitely suffered I saw people reaching level 50 in a matter of days. Ofcourse you see people who took longer I know Morrioan said it took him 2 months (?) to reach level 50 which is very short. I had more free time when I was in highschool to grind and level up to 60 when WoW first launched and it took me 7 months to reach it and even longer to just raid. TOR I managed to reach level 50 in a matter of weeks in less time and I didn't really do anything to prepare for hardmodes or raids. 

Translate that into say even 3 characters and its 6 months minimum on the game.

Maria Caliban wrote...

It takes a week to hit level 60 in World of Warcraft now and you can hit level 85 without raiding once. 

MMOs have changed.

Interesting 

Modifié par Morroian, 14 mai 2012 - 01:00 .