634 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

This is hilarious, considering that six, eight months ago people were saying these exact words about ME3.

When it actually IS their "make-or-break" game, let me know.

I think its hard for people to give up on their favorite developers.

Once they make a great game(or two or three), they become loyal and that loyalty is hard to break, depending on the person and the developer.

[Brockololly]

slimgrin wrote...
And also, I've no interest in DA3, but they're using the Frostbyte 2 engine, which can provide some of the best visuals to date...maybe even enough to overcome the crappy art design.

If they are indeed going to end up using Frostbite 2, I'd be very curious when they planned on releasing the game. Since I can't imagine working on a whole new engine is a quick affair.


As for whether DA3 will have a huge backlash, I think the major backlash has already occured between DA2 and ME3's ending. People might have been forgiving to see DA2 as a fluke, but how shoddy ME3's story and ending was likely showed many people that current BioWare maybe isn't the same as they once were. So DA3 won't really have a huge backlash because at this point people are mostly expecting it to be a pile of dung. There is nothing to backlash against.


Although, doing stuff like adding in a multiplayer mode or neglecting the PC version or taking more cues from Mass Effect or Uncharted would certainly confirm people's existing biases that BioWare isn't going the direction they maybe once hoped DA would go.

[Alpha-Centuri]

People are going to buy it regardless. People still buy madden, and it has been a roster update for a couple years now.

Looking at things, the more noise signifes that people bought it. If fans were truly bout it, it would pass with nothing but a murmur. Alas methinks fans will simply continue to buy and complain, rather than move on.

[deuce985]

Brockololly wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
And also, I've no interest in DA3, but they're using the Frostbyte 2 engine, which can provide some of the best visuals to date...maybe even enough to overcome the crappy art design.

If they are indeed going to end up using Frostbite 2, I'd be very curious when they planned on releasing the game. Since I can't imagine working on a whole new engine is a quick affair.


As for whether DA3 will have a huge backlash, I think the major backlash has already occured between DA2 and ME3's ending. People might have been forgiving to see DA2 as a fluke, but how shoddy ME3's story and ending was likely showed many people that current BioWare maybe isn't the same as they once were. So DA3 won't really have a huge backlash because at this point people are mostly expecting it to be a pile of dung. There is nothing to backlash against.


Although, doing stuff like adding in a multiplayer mode or neglecting the PC version or taking more cues from Mass Effect or Uncharted would certainly confirm people's existing biases that BioWare isn't going the direction they maybe once hoped DA would go.

Well, that would probably be a vocal minority becase it doesn't look like any negativity is hurting their sales numbers. ME3 is already at $200 million in sales. That's in a weak month for sales numbers like March too.

I've been seeing these forums throw rage fits for years and it never seems to ding Bioware very much lol. People just get louder but it isn't hurting them financially, as their numbers prove. Until it does, nothing is going to change. They have to come to a compromise when it means broadening your audience.

I'm still going to support them, personally. I stil lthink they make amazing games. I thought ME3 was one of the more personal games I've played in a long time. That's good enough for me...

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I have no idea, but if it's anything like Mass Effect 3's backlash, I'll probably get fat from all the popcorn. I may even start a new LP to commemorate the occasion.

Honestly though, I don't see how anyone can make any kind of judgements about Dragon Age 3 from this far off. All I know is that their recent releases (DA 2, TOR, ME 3) have tarnished BioWare's reputation, even if they've all been financially successful.

So it's going to be an uphill battle to win back the people who don't hold faith that BioWare is capable of making a game that they would enjoy (myself included). Assuming of course, BioWare even wants to win such people over.

Personally, I believe if Dragon Age 3 does not go over so well, they should make a clean break and stop labelling their games as RPGs. It's easily one of the biggest reasons the blowback has been so harsh. When you lavel a game an RPG, there are certain expectations that an audience demands. Rightly or wrongly, BioWare has not been able to deliver what many players feel is a "quality RPG". Putting aside the whole "what is an RPG" argument, I'd imagine a Jade Empire 2 game billed as an Action/Adventure would excite a few people.

It would hold appeal for long time BioWare fans, yet create enough distance from the RPG genre to hopefully extricate themselves from many of the criticisms thrown at them in regards to cinematics, Actionised presentation and the like.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 12 mai 2012 - 05:22 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

CrustyBot wrote...

Honestly though, I don't see how anyone can make any kind of judgements about Dragon Age 3 from this far off. All I know is that their recent releases (DA 2, TOR, ME 3) have tarnished BioWare's reputation, even if they've all been financially successful.

It's time to learn or fall ...

Alternative solution as you said is labeling their future games: Action/adventure

[deuce985]

See...I don't get that logic at all. How is Bioware not making RPGs? Just because they're not pure CRPGs anymore, doesn't make them any less RPGs...

You're looking at one of the most diversified genres in the industry. The RP aspect of their games, conversation wheels and dialogue itself makes it a RPG. Not to mention everything else that is "RPGish" within their games...

Look up the definition of RPG in the Oxford Dictionary...Bioware games fit that description perfectly.

Take ME3 for instance. Ok. People like to say it's a shooter and not RPG. Ok then, describe me another shooter on the market that's remotely close to ME3 or has the depth?

-Hubs
-Heavy Lore
-Role-Playing(as in the geek term)
-Dialogue wheels choosing your choices
-HEAVY story, dialogue and character development
-Leveling up
-Skill trees
-Armor+weapon customization
-Side-quests
-Extended gameplay experience (20-40 hours)
-Biotic wheels similar to "magic" in RPGs

etc.

What more does it need to be classified as a RPG? Just because it's RPG-lite in some areas while being heavy in others, doesn't make it any less a RPG. Diablo 3 is classified as a RPG. But yet, it has heavily streamlined mechanics too. You can't even allocate skill points or attributes in that game. It's a pure customization experience with very little story/dialogue. Is that any less a RPG? No because it sits in another RPG genre and has enough RPG heavy elements to define it as a RPG. What about Dark Souls?

It always seems like people argue what is and isn't a RPG. I think that just has a lot to do with games borrowing from the genre because it has so much depth. Heck, CoD4 borrowed heavy RPG elements and look what it did for them. That and RPGs have so many sub-genres I think is why. JRPGs, ARPG, CRPG, etc. etc.

Modifié par deuce985, 12 mai 2012 - 06:09 .

[Sajji]

deuce985 wrote...

See...I don't get that logic at all. How is Bioware not making RPGs? Just because they're not pure CRPGs anymore, doesn't make them any less RPGs...

You're looking at one of the most diversified genres in the industry. The RP aspect of their games, conversation wheels and dialogue itself makes it a RPG. Not to mention everything else that is "RPGish" within their games...

Look up the definition of RPG in the Oxford Dictionary...Bioware games fit that description perfectly.

Take ME3 for instance. Ok. People like to say it's a shooter and not RPG. Ok then, describe me another shooter on the market that's remotely close to ME3 or has the depth?

-Hubs
-Heavy Lore
-Role-Playing(as in the geek term)
-Dialogue wheels choosing your choices
-HEAVY story, dialogue and character development
-Leveling up
-Skill trees
-Armor+weapon customization
-Side-quests
-Extended gameplay experience (20-40 hours)
-Biotic wheels similar to "magic" in RPGs

etc.

What more does it need to be classified as a RPG? Just because it's RPG-lite in some areas while being heavy in others, doesn't make it any less a RPG. Diablo 3 is classified as a RPG. But yet, it has heavily streamlined mechanics too. You can't even allocate skill points or attributes in that game. It's a pure customization experience with very little story/dialogue. Is that any less a RPG? No because it sits in another RPG genre and has enough RPG heavy elements to define it as a RPG. What about Dark Souls?

It always seems like people argue what is and isn't a RPG. I think that just has a lot to do with games borrowing from the genre because it has so much depth. Heck, CoD4 borrowed heavy RPG elements and look what it did for them. That and RPGs have so many sub-genres I think is why. JRPGs, ARPG, CRPG, etc. etc.

Underlying mechanics are weak. Far too simplistic.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I get the feeling you didn't read my post and just got all defensive because I suggested BioWare stop labelling their games as RPGs.

I have to say, I lol'd at seeing "Dialog wheels", "Hubs", "Heavy Lore" and "Extended Gameplay" as RPG elements.

Simply put, an RPG is what the publishers or developers deem it to be. Your list is proof.

Everyone has their own opinion of what an RPG entails, but you're retroactively taking elements of Mass Effect and saying that those particular elements make it an RPG.

Which is, I daresay, is the point of labelling it as such.

Proof? San Andreas is probably as much of an RPG as many ARPGs on the market. But it's not considered an RPG. Why? Because Rockstar never labeled it as one. "It's not, so it's not".

Also, RAGE.

Filament wrote...

Wheel is just a mode of presentation for branching dialog, which is at least a common element in most of the "WRPGs" I've played.

Heavy Rain, LA Noire, etc.

If the previews are to be believed, Black Ops 2 might even have branching dialog.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 12 mai 2012 - 07:04 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

I like to think that DA3 will be OK. It is certainly not in BW's best interest to repeat DA2/ME3 again. Does that mean they won't do it again? I don't know, but let's hope sales are not their only confirmation for success and that economics are not the only drive behind the game. I have the impression that the individual team members love their work and work their asses off. Let's hope that enthusiasm rubs off to the top.

[slimgrin]

CrustyBot wrote...

I get the feeling you didn't read my post and just got all defensive because I suggested BioWare stop labelling their games as RPGs.

I have to say, I lol'd at seeing "Dialog wheels" as an RPG element.

Also, RAGE.

The dialog wheel is Bioware's contribution to casual gaming. YOU LEAVE IT ALONE! 

It just represents intent. The Writers are simply informing you of your INTENT...just in case you happen to be a RETARD.

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 mai 2012 - 06:53 .

[Homebound]

I didnt even know Bioware was making a DA3. Honestly from my pov, they cant dip any further down. It'll either be better than DA2 or on the same level, thats the potential in play right now.

[Sajji]

Is Dragon Age 'dark fantasy'? There's nothing dark about it. What...those bloodsplattered faces? Getouttahere!

[Marixus99.9]

Hellbound555 wrote...

I didnt even know Bioware was making a DA3. Honestly from my pov, they cant dip any further down. It'll either be better than DA2 or on the same level, thats the potential in play right now.

Yeah, what else can Bioware can do at this point? It's not like they can make it even worse then DA2 ...

Actually, wait, forget I said anything.

Modifié par Marixus99.9, 12 mai 2012 - 07:39 .

[Sajji]

Marixus99.9 wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

I didnt even know Bioware was making a DA3. Honestly from my pov, they cant dip any further down. It'll either be better than DA2 or on the same level, thats the potential in play right now.

Yeah, what else can Bioware can do at this point? It's not like they can make it even worse then DA2 ...

Actually, wait, forget I said anything.

Towards the end for them, EA might start forcing them to push out stuff the condition of Two Worlds...

Milk it til its dry

[Sajji]

Torture doesn't equal dark. Fable II had torture, and worse than that. Does that make Fable II dark fantasy?

Modifié par Sajji, 12 mai 2012 - 08:10 .

[Xewaka]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...
These days [grognard is] just another shorthand for the same people neckbeard is used for. Some wear it with pride.

It's basically code for a reactionary in the sense they want games to go back to what they were as opposed to either preferring they stay how they are, or change.
Prelaunch nonsense post I made trying to group various critics together.  

Fo you have a term for those that believe that the change was in the wrong direction and thought the evolution should've been in a different path? Just curious.

[Yrkoon]

Sajji wrote...

Torture doesn't equal dark. Fable II had torture, and worse than that. Does that make Fable II dark fantasy?

Necromancy, though,  is classic dark fantasy by definition. And DA2 had plenty of it. Personally, whether an RPG is dark fantasy or...not-dark fantasy isn't of paramount importance for me when deciding whether I'm going to buy a game. I do, however, have a distinct preference when it comes to midieval vs. sci-fi/post apocalyptic. I much *much* prefer the former in my RPGs

Modifié par Yrkoon, 12 mai 2012 - 08:29 .

[Maria Caliban]

Yrkoon wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Torture doesn't equal dark. Fable II had torture, and worse than that. Does that make Fable II dark fantasy?

Necromancy, though,  is classic dark fantasy by definition. And DA2 had plenty of it. Personally, whether an RPG is dark fantasy or...not-dark fantasy isn't of paramount importance for me when deciding whether I'm going to buy a game. I do, however, have a distinct preference when it comes to midieval vs. sci-fi/post apocalyptic. I much *much* prefer the former in my RPGs

Necromancy is also classic high fantasy, sword and sorcery, steampunk, and urban fantasy. It's difficult to think of a sub-genre of fantasy where necromancy wouldn't appear.

[Seboist]

Sajji wrote...

Is Dragon Age 'dark fantasy'? There's nothing dark about it. What...those bloodsplattered faces? Getouttahere!

True, it's your standard disney-esque "save the realm from the dragon" (literally in DA:O's case) fluff story with a crappy tacked on datesim mechanic.

[Yrkoon]

Indeed. Blighted lands; Old Gods; Blood Magic; Morrigan's sex-ritual; Grey Wardens drinking the blood of their sworn foes. Its Disney at its finest.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 12 mai 2012 - 08:52 .

[Momiji.mii]

It's my wish that people would stop wishing the imossible from game makers, but since that wish will probably never come true, there'll probably be a backlash from DA3. Why? Because there's a lot of different opinions out there as to what makes a perfect game. There's old Bioware fans, more recent fans like me, there'll be fans who picked up DA3 but didn't play the old games, there'll be people who agree with all choices, people who'll feel let down, etc. In short: There'll be a ton of different opinions and some will inevitably be disappointed since one game can hardly please everyone.

Will it be a bigger backlash than DA2 or ME3? I really hope not. The expectations for DA2 and ME3 were pretty spectalular from what I've understood, but those who already feel betrayed for whatever reasons will probably be less likely to buy the game before they know what the general consensus is.