626 réponses à ce sujet

[Zix13]

I mean, I understand the Dev's anger at their failed vision, but honestly, when it's obvious you screwed up, tighten your belt and learn from it. No one likes someone who doesn't admit they're wrong. Everyone likes the guy who's wrong but learns from it and fixes their mistake.

[razor150]

CrazyBirdman wrote...

I also felt that Mass Effect 3 was in itself a worthy ending to Shepards story and the last 5 minutes of the game took nathing away from it for. Problem is, I will never convince any of the ending haters of that position(it is very reasonable to dislike the ending) but I will never be conviced by haters that I have do NOT enjoy the entire game. You will hardly ever change intuitive feelings with reason.
The feeling is the important part when playing a game and I and the author of the article felt this way regardless of discussion afterwards.
But he choose synthesis and likes it....that makes his point of course less valuable, I feel diffrent!
.
.
.
Yeah, I do admit it is hard to tolerate someones position you just cannot understand but you can try!

It is not his opinion that bothers me, anybody who likes the ending I am happy form, but what bothers me is Webb implying anybody who doesn't agree is too dumb to get it. It has been Bioware's party line since the backlash for the ending of ME3 started being heard. It is dismissive and insulting. 

[Stigweird85]

I wouldn't worry too much, a lot of attention has been put on the end of the game but I do agree with Duane. If you look at the trilogy as 3 parts of a whole: http://en.wikipedia....e-act_structure it's basically writing 101

In this regard ME3 is very much the finale of the series but it was always intended to be that, Bioware always said this was the end of Shepards story but that there are other stories to tell. Taken as a whole ME3 offers several conclusions to ongoing story arcs from all 3 game/

Duane is probably frustrated(understandably so) that people aren't seeing the bigger picture. Mass Effect is bigger than the sum of its parts

Modifié par bigstig, 11 mai 2012 - 11:16 .

[IanPolaris]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

Actually at the risk of being disagreeable he does not have the same right to his opinion as we do (at least not to be expressed publically) for the same reason that Generals (or commissioned officers in general) on active duty don't have the right to criticize the president.  It is prejudicial to the company he works for and as such his words don't just reflect on himself but on Bioware/EA as a whole, and it is VERY easy to take his words as an insult to your customers, ie. they are too stupid to "get it".

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

bigstig wrote...

I wouldn't worry too much, a lot of attention has been put on the end of the game but I do agree with Duane. If you look at the trilogy as 3 parts of a whole: http://en.wikipedia....e-act_structure it's basically writing 101

In this regard ME3 is very much the finale of the series but it was always intended to be that, Bioware always said this was the end of Shepards story but that there are other stories to tell. Taken as a whole ME3 offers several conclusions to ongoing story arcs from all 3 game/

Duane is probably frustrated(understandably so) that people aren't seeing the bigger picture. Mass Effect is bigger than the sum of its parts

If you have to explain it, and if you feel frustrated that your audience "didn't get it", then YOU FAILED as a writer.  This is literally story-telling 101.

-Polaris

[Loup Blanc]

Mr Webb, you are an idiot.

[phat0817]

This is kinda article that will continue to inspire faith and rekindle our relationship with you Bioware.

This only says that my perdition is going to come true the EC is going to fix nothing and be epic failure.

[razor150]

bigstig wrote...

I wouldn't worry too much, a lot of attention has been put on the end of the game but I do agree with Duane. If you look at the trilogy as 3 parts of a whole: http://en.wikipedia....e-act_structure it's basically writing 101

In this regard ME3 is very much the finale of the series but it was always intended to be that, Bioware always said this was the end of Shepards story but that there are other stories to tell. Taken as a whole ME3 offers several conclusions to ongoing story arcs from all 3 game/

Duane is probably frustrated(understandably so) that people aren't seeing the bigger picture. Mass Effect is bigger than the sum of its parts

Nobody disagrees that this is the basic structure. It is like pro-enders who keep saying this is purposely being obtuse. Every trilogy has a beginning, middle and end. ME3 is the end, nobody needs this pointed out. Everybody gets that ME3 had several different endings throughout the game for on going story arcs. Again this isn't hard to get. What is insulting is that Webb, and Bioware, repeatedly saying "you don't get it."

Modifié par razor150, 11 mai 2012 - 11:21 .

[Stalker]

JL81 wrote...

Mr Webb, you are an idiot.

:lol:It's great how just your avatar gives you a valid argument...

[Funkdrspot]

The guy is right in a way. People were looking solely at how the end was impacted by our choices whereas I saw how the game itself was impacted.

But the other side does have a point still. the ending is supposed to be the climax of not just the game but the series and it fizzled horribly. there was not enough variation at the end, the synth vs organic issue seemed forced and so did the reasoning for all the reaping.

[Drake-Shepard]

Mr Massakka wrote...

JL81 wrote...

Mr Webb, you are an idiot.

:lol:It's great how just your avatar gives you a valid argument...

hahaha

[Zix13]

IanPolaris wrote...

If you have to explain it, and if you feel frustrated that your audience "didn't get it", then YOU FAILED as a writer.  This is literally story-telling 101.

-Polaris

Very true.

[CrazyBirdman]

razor150 wrote...

CrazyBirdman wrote...

I also felt that Mass Effect 3 was in itself a worthy ending to Shepards story and the last 5 minutes of the game took nathing away from it for. Problem is, I will never convince any of the ending haters of that position(it is very reasonable to dislike the ending) but I will never be conviced by haters that I have do NOT enjoy the entire game. You will hardly ever change intuitive feelings with reason.
The feeling is the important part when playing a game and I and the author of the article felt this way regardless of discussion afterwards.
But he choose synthesis and likes it....that makes his point of course less valuable, I feel diffrent!
.
.
.
Yeah, I do admit it is hard to tolerate someones position you just cannot understand but you can try!

It is not his opinion that bothers me, anybody who likes the ending I am happy form, but what bothers me is Webb implying anybody who doesn't agree is too dumb to get it. It has been Bioware's party line since the backlash for the ending of ME3 started being heard. It is dismissive and insulting. 

Ok, I must have overread that, that is absolutly stupid and anyone who has ever discussed about any entertainment product has to not that such arguments are pointless and immature. Although I did not got that feeling from BioWares statements, they just desperatly tried to defend themselfs.
I guess that once again shows us how deeply many care for the Mass Effect universe if they are willing to take such extreme positions.
But what do you expect? He is a video game journalist and sadly we have very few reasonable and intelligent of those.
Edit: Ahhh, damnit I confused the author with the BioWare guy, that makes things of course worse....such things from BioWare employees themself is just pathetic. But I still believe that most of BioWares team is actually cares very much about how the individual consumer feels about their game, not how he "is supposed to" feel.

Modifié par CrazyBirdman, 11 mai 2012 - 11:32 .

[_aLucidMind_]

chemiclord wrote...

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

BioWare PR has been making it a point to call anyone and everyone who didn't like the ending "too stupid to understand it". Cant Planet's attitude is a reaction to their statements; if they can't handle their customers being pissy for being called idiots, then maybe they should stop calling their customers idiots.

Except... they NEVER said that.  At ANY point.

They may not have said it outright, but they have most certainly insinuated it.

[Mass effect 2 forever]

zovoes wrote...

do the people at bioware really hold the people that don't like the ending in that much contempt? is that really how they view us?

Yup.

Kinda bad when you think about it.

Also. 'I get the final part of a trilogy is about wrapping up the story?' thats kinda the definition of an ending. Bioware wanted to get all high-brow with that ending. If they just wanted a clear-cut ending it would have been.

1-Get org/syn get along with each-other. Which you do at Rannoch.

2-Kill the reapers. What you should have done.

The poster is trying to sidestep the real contencious issue which is that they put out bad art which wasn't in keeping with the story when it came to the ending. They were overly ambitious and wanted an ending which was more magical n dramatic than a clear-cut doomsday weapon. Even though thematically there was no reason to do it and forcing it on the player was jarring since it went against other chapters of the game. They were trying to be bold for the sake of being bold and got burned for failing.

[Funkdrspot]

The problem is simply that for every person who has valid concerns over the end and expresses them in a logical way, there are 5 others who are being obtuse, whiny and attempt to find flaws where there aren't any. Then there are the 100 people parroting the words of those 5 in typical group-think fashion.

So if you're one of former, you shouldn't get defensive when Bioware argues that people don't get it, b/c you're not one of those people.

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 11 mai 2012 - 11:30 .

[Iakus]

bigstig wrote...

I wouldn't worry too much, a lot of attention has been put on the end of the game but I do agree with Duane. If you look at the trilogy as 3 parts of a whole: http://en.wikipedia....e-act_structure it's basically writing 101

In this regard ME3 is very much the finale of the series but it was always intended to be that, Bioware always said this was the end of Shepards story but that there are other stories to tell. Taken as a whole ME3 offers several conclusions to ongoing story arcs from all 3 game/

Duane is probably frustrated(understandably so) that people aren't seeing the bigger picture. Mass Effect is bigger than the sum of its parts

The "big picture" is what makes the endings so painful.  In the end, nothing you did mattered.  Shepard can't avoid disaster for the galaxy.  Can't even save him/herself, even.  The Reapers defeat themselves

[Apollo-XL5]

chemiclord wrote...

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

BioWare PR has been making it a point to call anyone and everyone who didn't like the ending "too stupid to understand it". Cant Planet's attitude is a reaction to their statements; if they can't handle their customers being pissy for being called idiots, then maybe they should stop calling their customers idiots.

Except... they NEVER said that.  At ANY point.

I dont remember BW calling the fanbase idiots either.

[ArthurVon]

A long goodbye, WITH NO ****ING ENDING.

[Erszebeth]

So what happened to the PR blurb "ME3 is the perfect place to start the series ?"

Either it's a long ending, and it can't stand alone, or it's a great game that can be playing without prior exposure. It can't be both.

[essarr71]

You know.. What I love about all this is that in two months this segment of the forums has over 1200 pages at 24 threads a page. Almost 30k threads. Seeing a lot of "99% of the game sucked but the ending was awesome" threads?

You'd have to be very disconnected to think we didn't "get it". I respect Webb's right to having an opinion.. and I agree with the concept of his idea. But he's dead wrong if he thinks the vast majority here don't realize that arcs are closing thru the game. We love ME3 because of that. We just hate the last arc.. which also happens to have it's beginning, middle & end in the last 30 minutes.. not the last 30 hours.

Modifié par essarr71, 11 mai 2012 - 11:35 .

[IanPolaris]

Funkdrspot wrote...

The problem is simply that for every person who has valid concerns over the end and expresses them in a logical way, there are 5 others who are being obtuse, whiny and attempt to find flaws where there aren't any. Then there are the 100 people parroting the words of those 5 in typical group-think fashion.

So if you're one of former, you shouldn't get defensive when Bioware argues that people don't get it, b/c you're not one of those people.

This is commerical art.  If the vast majority of your fan base "doesn't get it" then you fail.  Period.  End. Of. Discussion.

But then what do I know?  I'm just a paying customer.  I guess I am not worthy and unable to appreciate the artistic greatness of bioware.

All hail the artistic greatness of bioware.

-Polaris

[Apollo-XL5]

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

[braisbr1]

ImmovableMover wrote...

As I commented on that article itself -

"I think of my car as a Porsche but that doesn't make it a Porsche and you can think of the entire game as "The ending to Mass effect 3" but that, also, doesn't make it so. ****, it doesn't even make sense; You can think of Mass Effect 3 as the end to the Mass effect series, but you can't think of Mass Effect 3 as the ending to Mass effect 3...That's like considering the Soup at the start of your meal "The Desert". We have words to describe specific things for a reason, You can't **** around with definitions to try and make some faux-intellectual point.

It seems that no one can properly defend the ending without, at some point, trying to dismiss it or ignore it as a distinctive section in the story. This article dismisses the ending by putting the entire game under the umbrella of "The ending", failing to (or simply not wanting to) see any distinction between the 30 hours of Mass Effect 3 and the contested final section of Mass effect 3 (you know, the bit most people accurately call "the ending").

If you breezed through the final 15 minutes, thinking of it as only a tiny percentage of a day long ending then I'm not surprised you don't mind it. But the rest of us who have engaged our brains, looked at it critically and aren't going to jump through mental hoops just to say it wasn't bad are still pretty unhappy with it."

Well said man. I couldn't have said it any better. 

[essarr71]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

Why would we whine about Skyrim in an ME3 forum?