626 réponses à ce sujet

[braisbr1]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

if you compare Skyrim to Mass Effect in terms of the ending... then you either haven't played a lot of games or you don't get what each of those are about. 

[Stigweird85]

IanPolaris wrote...

bigstig wrote...

I wouldn't worry too much, a lot of attention has been put on the end of the game but I do agree with Duane. If you look at the trilogy as 3 parts of a whole: http://en.wikipedia....e-act_structure it's basically writing 101

In this regard ME3 is very much the finale of the series but it was always intended to be that, Bioware always said this was the end of Shepards story but that there are other stories to tell. Taken as a whole ME3 offers several conclusions to ongoing story arcs from all 3 game/

Duane is probably frustrated(understandably so) that people aren't seeing the bigger picture. Mass Effect is bigger than the sum of its parts

If you have to explain it, and if you feel frustrated that your audience "didn't get it", then YOU FAILED as a writer.  This is literally story-telling 101.

-Polaris

I don't really see how they could have made it any clearer, this was the end of Shepards story, granted the 3 endings leave a little to be desired but thats another debate.  However to say that they failed as a writers a little harsh, nobly likes critism constructive or otherwise especially when it is something you have poured your heart and soul into. In his position I wolf probably be screaming from the rooftops saying tis is what I meant rather than remain silent  anyway it's near 1am and I have work in the morning so I need to get som e sleep 


A

[Apollo-XL5]

essarr71 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

Why would we whine about Skyrim in an ME3 forum?

I didnt say everyone on the ME forums, I was saying everyone in general.  And skyrim is a good example of a game that has no closure to it at all.  Its all "kill the leader dragon......he dead now, whats next".  Unlike fallout 3 which had a great ending (in my view) which felt right due to how the story played out through the game.  But then was spoiled by fans whining about it and then having the devs retcon the ending for something that then gives another no ending scenario.  I myself am playing fallout 3 again but will do so with out the crappy retcon ending dlc that spoiled the story in the first place.
I mean seriously how does you character survive a killer dose of radiation, the same radiation that killed your characters father earlier in the game.  Now that makes no sense.

[Aramiss Ducati]

I work in a retail business and had an employee call a customer stupid before, guess what she doesn't shop at my store anymore.

[Joccaren]

I agree and disagree.

The Entirety of ME3 is the ending to the Mass Effect Series.

HOWEVER, in context of ME3, the whole thing can't be the end. If it were, the story would make less sense than it does at the moment. No, the game has its beginning middle and end, that beginning middle and end just so happens to be the end of the series however.

Its fine to have ME3 as the ending to the Mass Effect Franchise, but for it to work it itself must have a satisfying beginning, middle and end to that ending. This is where ME3 failed. For me, it had none of those as satisfying.

[IanPolaris]

bigstig wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

bigstig wrote...

I wouldn't worry too much, a lot of attention has been put on the end of the game but I do agree with Duane. If you look at the trilogy as 3 parts of a whole: http://en.wikipedia....e-act_structure it's basically writing 101

In this regard ME3 is very much the finale of the series but it was always intended to be that, Bioware always said this was the end of Shepards story but that there are other stories to tell. Taken as a whole ME3 offers several conclusions to ongoing story arcs from all 3 game/

Duane is probably frustrated(understandably so) that people aren't seeing the bigger picture. Mass Effect is bigger than the sum of its parts

If you have to explain it, and if you feel frustrated that your audience "didn't get it", then YOU FAILED as a writer.  This is literally story-telling 101.

-Polaris

I don't really see how they could have made it any clearer, this was the end of Shepards story, granted the 3 endings leave a little to be desired but thats another debate.  However to say that they failed as a writers a little harsh, nobly likes critism constructive or otherwise especially when it is something you have poured your heart and soul into. In his position I wolf probably be screaming from the rooftops saying tis is what I meant rather than remain silent  anyway it's near 1am and I have work in the morning so I need to get som e sleep 


A

Look there is one of two possible explainations:

A.  Everyone does get it but it's just objectively bad.
B.  Most people do not "get it" in which case it is objectively bad.

Either way the ending to mass effect 3 is simply bad and if the authors of bioware are upset about that, then too bad.  THEY were the ones that put their names on it and allowed it out the door in this form.

-Polaris

[D3SM0ND0]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Even if you twist it that way, I don't think that these 34h were a worthy finale at all.

You can't sell me a mediocre game with so many flaws, made with so less heart as a worthy goodbye for 5 years of dedication.

But the game received 75 perfect review scores, how can you call it mediocre, how can this be? lol

[Apollo-XL5]

braisbr1 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

if you compare Skyrim to Mass Effect in terms of the ending... then you either haven't played a lot of games or you don't get what each of those are about. 

Wait, are you calling me stupid.....because that is wrong (being sarcastic, also ironic considering what this thread is about.)

[someguy1231]

Trying to argue that all of ME3 was the ending just makes the whole thing worse IMO, because that makes the Crucible even more of a deus ex machina than it already is. It also makes the other new characters/concepts that were suddenly introduced (Vega, Kai Leng, Cerberus suddenly turning against us for no reason, etc) feel even more forced and out-of-nowhere. Totilo has no idea what he's talking about. It's also notable he hasn't responded (seriously, at least) to any of the detractors in Kotaku's comments. Doesn't exactly make him look very confident.

[2484Stryker]

Yes, we get it, too, BioWare. We understand that you "intended" for ME3 to be one giant "ending" for the series.

However, when the last 10 minutes completely overrides your previous decisions & actions, and "forces" you to choose from three nonsensical & out-of-character choices that ultimately and unilaterally plunges the galaxy into a galactic dark age (while committing genocide, galaxy wide molestation, or total surrender), then this "entire 34 hours worth of ending" is pretty much rendered moot.

Thanks, but no thanks. Better luck next time!

[razor150]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

This isn't Skyrim forums and personally I never played Skyrim.

[Mass effect 2 forever]

Zix13 wrote...

I mean, I understand the Dev's anger at their failed vision, but honestly, when it's obvious you screwed up, tighten your belt and learn from it. No one likes someone who doesn't admit they're wrong. Everyone likes the guy who's wrong but learns from it and fixes their mistake.

But what vision is that?

The only thing I saw in the ending was pretty loud.

You must end the syn/org struggle. There are three means to achieve it. Only one of them is good and it is the path of final unity through trans-humanism.

Then you remember everything you've done and realise that what hes saying makes no sense. You've seen with your own eyes the most violent org/syn conflict in your cycle ended without any need to force unity. You've seen that the Geth and EDI were fully capable of interacting with organics and evolving the capacity to do so. If the source was different it doesn't matter if the end result is the same. To me, ME was clear, syn and organics are the same thing. The reapers exist as the anti-thesis to that.

So why am I helping them and why am I suddenly agreeing with them? Synthesis is abhorrent, why are you making out as if this fits with your game? That conflict is not inevitable, no conflict is inevitable, thats what all three games relentlessly hammered into you. Its as if they completely forgot at the ending what their game was about.

It would be like if William Hogarth had ended A Rakes Progress had ended with Tom Rakewell inheriting another fortune and lived out his days in peace. If art is a continuous series, like Hogarths progresses, you have to make sure your ending is in keeping with the moral of your tale. It doesn't matter whether people do, or do not get it if this is the case.

[IanPolaris]

razor150 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

This isn't Skyrim forums and personally I never played Skyrim.

Also Bethesda and the TES series has never been known for anything other than average to mediocre storytelling and writing.  It's the open epic worlds that is Skyrim's selling point (like with most other TES games).  Bioware is supposed to be the master of storytelling......that was the theory anyway....

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 11 mai 2012 - 11:52 .

[lamodite]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

Why would we whine about Skyrim in an ME3 forum?

I didnt say everyone on the ME forums, I was saying everyone in general.  And skyrim is a good example of a game that has no closure to it at all.  Its all "kill the leader dragon......he dead now, whats next".  Unlike fallout 3 which had a great ending (in my view) which felt right due to how the story played out through the game.  But then was spoiled by fans whining about it and then having the devs retcon the ending for something that then gives another no ending scenario.  I myself am playing fallout 3 again but will do so with out the crappy retcon ending dlc that spoiled the story in the first place.
I mean seriously how does you character survive a killer dose of radiation, the same radiation that killed your characters father earlier in the game.  Now that makes no sense.

Well I never bought Skyrim or any bethesda game for that matter based only on the main story. Bethesda games aren't narrative masterpieces and theres nothing wrong with that, they are about adventure, wonder, exploration. The main story is there just to add to the overall experiance, not be the only experience. I replay skyrim to try new races and classes and even discover something new.

Can't say the same about mass effect. The whole series is about the story. I replay Mass Effect to experiance a new story. Sure I try new classes and discover new things but that only adds to the overall experience which is the main story. 

Modifié par lamodite, 11 mai 2012 - 11:55 .

[Luder09]

2 months after release, 1 person "gets it"?

Bravo Bioware....Bravo

[Apollo-XL5]

razor150 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

This isn't Skyrim forums and personally I never played Skyrim.

Well it might be a good idea to talk about something else, or otherwise this cycle of depression and hate will just go on and on.  Heres a thought why doesnt everyone on these ME forums just go and do something else. Play something else.  Jut do something other than going over the same things again and again.  Becuase thats what these forums are turning into, and that is no way to live.
I mean I log onto these forums once a day, just to see if there is any news, but this bile of hate a depression is all i find.  Its just not worth it in the long run.  Plus if you focus on something else, then the EC will be out before you know it, rather than counting down the hours/days/weeks until it is out.

[kobayashi-maru]

I agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion even devs, but for me personally it just feels like it's getting to that final straw. It can't be easy for Bioware to hear the amount of criticism they are getting but the specific tweet is just another example of people insinuating the fans are not clever enough to get the ending. It may not have been his intent but over the past few weeks it seems to be a recurring theme so some people are taking it as such.

Added to that the lead writer explicitly through various sources tells of galactic dark age and how the people on the Citadel are in for bad times. The fans comment about this, only to have various other people come out with explanation of how people survive exploding Citadel and basically say where would you get this idea of a Dark age, as if we are stupid for even thinking it. .

I'm actually hopeful for EC, but the ME ending is pretty straight forward it is not Tarkovsky or Richard Kelly style you need to analyse or even Blair Witch were you need to cross mediums to get the full picture.

Apologies if this comes across as mild rant but the whole 'stupid' thing is beginning to rankle me. And I am trying to watch season 2 of Remington Steele

[TheFinalDoctor]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

Skyrim does have an ending to each storyline. In the main storyline you stop the freaking apocalypse Alduin started. saying there was no ending/closure is like saying Mass Effect 2 didn't ende because you could still go finish missions after you destroyed the Collecter base.

[Apollo-XL5]

IanPolaris wrote...

razor150 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

This isn't Skyrim forums and personally I never played Skyrim.

Also Bethesda and the TES series has never been known for anything other than average to mediocre storytelling and writing.  It's the open epic worlds that is Skyrim's selling point (like with most other TES games).  Bioware is supposed to be the master of storytelling......that was the theory anyway....

-Polaris

Well skryim had a simple story and i did get invested in ti, so i was very dissappointed that they was no ending to it.  Plus fallout 3 had more of a story and it did have an ending which all that you did (main and side quests) had an effect on how things in the Capital wasteland would continue after your characters passing.

[Apollo-XL5]

TheFinalDoctor wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

Skyrim does have an ending to each storyline. In the main storyline you stop the freaking apocalypse Alduin started. saying there was no ending/closure is like saying Mass Effect 2 didn't ende because you could still go finish missions after you destroyed the Collecter base.

No you kill alduin, then you carry on with the next quest.  Thats not like in fallout 3 where you defeat the enclave and then sacrifice yourself for the greater good of the population of the capital wasteland.  Not like it at all.

[Sublyminal]

EAware paid someone at Kotaku off.

[Lwyn]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

TheFinalDoctor wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

Skyrim does have an ending to each storyline. In the main storyline you stop the freaking apocalypse Alduin started. saying there was no ending/closure is like saying Mass Effect 2 didn't ende because you could still go finish missions after you destroyed the Collecter base.

No you kill alduin, then you carry on with the next quest.  Thats not like in fallout 3 where you defeat the enclave and then sacrifice yourself for the greater good of the population of the capital wasteland.  Not like it at all.

Closure=main character dies?
Your comments are not healthy for my blood pressure...

[legion999]

And Bioware digs itself into a deeper hole. Are you guys trying to get to China?

[lamodite]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

TheFinalDoctor wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

Skyrim does have an ending to each storyline. In the main storyline you stop the freaking apocalypse Alduin started. saying there was no ending/closure is like saying Mass Effect 2 didn't ende because you could still go finish missions after you destroyed the Collecter base.

No you kill alduin, then you carry on with the next quest.  Thats not like in fallout 3 where you defeat the enclave and then sacrifice yourself for the greater good of the population of the capital wasteland.  Not like it at all.

That's typically how open world games work....
Games like gta, elder scrolls, fallout etc.
I beat Skyrim when I was around level 20 but I didn't explore everything I wanted to. I just decided to get the main quest out of the way to experience more of the game.
That's how those games work, no one wants Skyrim to end after killing Alduin, it's why Bethesda changed the ending in fallout 3. People buy those games To experience the whole game and the main story is just part of the whole.

Modifié par lamodite, 12 mai 2012 - 12:11 .

[frylock23]

Sidney wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

If destroy: did the geth or EDI really die? the kids wording was no where near conclusive, how does galactic civilization survive without the relays? what about quarians and turians stranded in the sol system unless they can find a food source or get home they will die,

GalCiv goes on w/o the relays rather easily. Civs eixsted before they used the relays. Yes it will be disruptive, yes there will be a lot of consequences to the loss of the relays but civlization and life gos on. The fall of the Roman Empire destroyed unity, wiped out communication and commerce. The world was different but very much still alive.

The Turians and Quarians trapped in sol...sucks to be them. Again, the idea that there is a "win" w/o cost is what people keep wanting (that's the aforementioned rainbows and unicorns) but nothing in the series said success came w/o a price.

No one disputes that life will go on in some form ... unless of course the relay explosions result in supernovae as ME lore leads us to expect ... However, the civilization of the Mass Effect universe that we know and love will end. It's like telling a bunch of people who played and loved a series set in the Roman Empire that there's still a point after that empire collapses. No there really isn't because that world, that empire, is gone. Yes, there are still civilizations afterward, but we aren't interested in those. They aren't what we were fighting to save.