626 réponses à ce sujet

[GeoFukari]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

Please, take another look at what Mr Webb has said in his twitter post.  Just look at this one example.  All I'm getting from it is just a sigh of self satisfaction.  Finally! Someone has appreciated my art!  Someone gets it. 

I'm interested to know what you thought Webb meant from that post as you clearly got a different meaning than I did.  Not having a go or anything, just curious.

Yeah.  It sounds like Webb is relieved that someone got the message they were trying to convey (even if I personally find that message to not be much of a message at all).  That's all that says.

Fans took that and decided that Webb was ALSO making an (apparently subtle) jab at the "idiot" fans who didn't see it the same way.  Just like they've been reading into and parsing every word anyone who works for Bioware has said since the rage began.

It's tiresome.  If Bioware felt you were idiots, they would also think you were too stupid to get any backhanded insults.  It would defeat the very purpose of trying to be subtle about it.

Someone earlier pointed out that he's the same fellow who had Tweeted something like "Just saw 21 Jump Street, good movie but I didn't like the ending. Where do I send my cupcakes?" or something to that effect. Which is a definate jab at "idiot fans," and it's also ironic, since he also is someone who doesn't "get it."

Had the producers of 21 Jump Street claimed in months of PR releases that the movie was a gritty, American action thriller starring Liam Neeson who plays a former CIA operative who sets about tracking down his daughter after she is kidnapped by human traffickers, and of course after having watched it, the movie proved to be nothing they had claimed, then he could make the cup cake comment without it being a petty jab at "idiot fans. But in fact, 21 Jump Street was exactly what it's producers and writers claimed it would be, unlike the ME3 "ending" (or whole game at this point), which was the opposite of what PR statement claimed it would be, and as such his comment was nothing more than a petty jab.

This.
While he was just being all angsty that no one got the "artistic" vision of his project, saying that this one guy gets it, he also condecendingly mocked the people who want a better ending. The fact that he previously made fun of the community with that Cupcake joke is... concerning.

If I had to go on a date with the personification of Bioware, Bethesda or Valve.... Well... Lets just say Bioware isn't getting any.

[Garlador]

Jenonax wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

So... let me get this straight. They shouldn't say anything at all?

Yet I see thread after thread here of "WHY ISN'T BIOWARE TALKING TO US!!!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!"

Can we at least figure out what we want from these guys before we start taking them to task for not giving it to us?

Its my opinion, my friend, no one elses.  I don't pretend to speak for everyone.  Some people want them to say a lot, I think it would be a terrible idea.

Its gone way beyond the point now where I think them saying anything will have a positive effect.

Like I said, in my opinion, they should keep quiet, release the EC and then we'll see.

Well, even a simple comment like "hey guys, these issues *lists issues* will be addressed by the EC." That way we can know WHAT to speculate about and what to look forward to having "clarified". There's absolutely zero reason they haven't done so yet, unless they themselves sat down as a group, saw how broken all the endings were, and have no idea what to do yet themselves.

In which case, they could just say "we're working on it".

[Mcfly616]

Zix13 wrote...

Filby08 wrote...

Garlador wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

Perhaps, but I absolutely do not appreciate being told that I "do not get" the ending. I've played every game multiple times, bought every comic tie-in, purchased every DLC, own every collector's edition, got every single achievement, and know the codex lore like the back of my hand.

I get it. And I'm insulted someone from Bioware would bluntly say "no, you didn't."

To quote Roger Ebert, "if you have to ask what it symbolizes, it didn't." That is the epitome of FAILED ART.

Try all you want, make mistakes if you want, but as a creator and artist, one should have the humility to acknowledge one's failures and not cling to every drivel of praise to dismiss universal disdain and logical criticism.

I know it's soul crushing to have so many people hate, reject, and analyze where Mass Effect 3 dropped the ball so hard and upset so many fans, but it's also the time to swallow some humble pie and accept that if so many people "did not get it", then maybe the problem wasn't with US, the paying customers, it was with those creating it in the first place.

I have been trying to put into words how I feel about this whole debacle, but this nice gentleman went ahead and did it for me.

Agreed. 

THIS.....

[chemiclord]

Jenonax wrote...

Its gone way beyond the point now where I think them saying anything will have a positive effect.

Like I said, in my opinion, they should keep quiet, release the EC and then we'll see.

I think you'll find we agree more than we disagree.

We've reached a point where NOTHING Bioware or its employee's say is ever going to be taken in anything resembling a positive light.

[Jenonax]

Garlador wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

So... let me get this straight. They shouldn't say anything at all?

Yet I see thread after thread here of "WHY ISN'T BIOWARE TALKING TO US!!!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!"

Can we at least figure out what we want from these guys before we start taking them to task for not giving it to us?

Its my opinion, my friend, no one elses.  I don't pretend to speak for everyone.  Some people want them to say a lot, I think it would be a terrible idea.

Its gone way beyond the point now where I think them saying anything will have a positive effect.

Like I said, in my opinion, they should keep quiet, release the EC and then we'll see.

Well, even a simple comment like "hey guys, these issues *lists issues* will be addressed by the EC." That way we can know WHAT to speculate about and what to look forward to having "clarified". There's absolutely zero reason they haven't done so yet, unless they themselves sat down as a group, saw how broken all the endings were, and have no idea what to do yet themselves.

In which case, they could just say "we're working on it".

And what happens if they list those issues they're going to fix and then don't deliver?  What if they say we'll remove StarChild and then bam there he is just with added colours in the EC?  What level of ****storm will happen then?

Armageddon. 

[Apollo-XL5]

GeoFukari wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

TheFinalDoctor wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

Skyrim does have an ending to each storyline. In the main storyline you stop the freaking apocalypse Alduin started. saying there was no ending/closure is like saying Mass Effect 2 didn't ende because you could still go finish missions after you destroyed the Collecter base.

No you kill alduin, then you carry on with the next quest.  Thats not like in fallout 3 where you defeat the enclave and then sacrifice yourself for the greater good of the population of the capital wasteland.  Not like it at all.

Wut? You sacrifice yourself only if you don't have Broken Steel installed. And if you don't well tough luck. If only you had a robot companion or a ghoul companion or even a giant unkillable mutant who is immune to pretty much everything to enter the code for you.

Well i have never made my companions do that, since i saw that as sort of renegede choice.  Plus I have been told that you cant get fawkes (super mutant) to go in there, its either you or the girl soldier. thats the choice.

Renegade? Your companions can't be killed by radiation!

If you have Broken Steel installed Sgt RL-3, Fawkes or Charon can activate the purifier.

I dont like broken steel.  I felt the original ending did the story justice.  That particluar dlc just retconned the ending and then gave us no ending, similar to skyrim.  

Thats the point of Bethesda games though.... They are about exploring the environment. And while they are working on Story stuff in their games now, It'll be a while until they get to the level of Bioware.

If you don't like that type of game, don't play it.

But i liked fallout 3 because it was different from their usual games, which s why i ultimately gave skyrim a go.  
It seems bethseda tried something different with fallout 3 by having it controlled by its story while also giving you the option to explore.  But fans didnt like the ending which led them to retconning it with their usual methods.
And also at least fallout 3 had a morality system (similar to ME).  Skyrim had none.
And choosing to sacrifice your self or your companion (remember pre broken steel release) does seem very paragon/renegade.

[Mann42]

GeoFukari wrote...
If I had to go on a date with the personification of Bioware, Bethesda or Valve.... Well... Lets just say Bioware isn't getting any.

Valve is smart and attractive, but is a perfectionist and takes forever to get ready.

I could get lost in conversation with Bethesda for months, but all its psychosis (bugs) will eventually wear me out.

Bioware just kicked me out of a moving car after a wonderful, exciting, and romantic 120 hour road trip vacation. I think Bioware broke up with me, but all I heard as I rolled out of the car was "This whole ride was the ending! Speculate on what that means!"

[Jenonax]

chemiclord wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Its gone way beyond the point now where I think them saying anything will have a positive effect.

Like I said, in my opinion, they should keep quiet, release the EC and then we'll see.

I think you'll find we agree more than we disagree.

We've reached a point where NOTHING Bioware or its employee's say is ever going to be taken in anything resembling a positive light.

We might agree on the consequences of such action but we disagree on whose fault it is. 

Bioware put the work out there, they are dealing out the PR damage control.  We are responding.  As a writer I know that what I put out there will have an effect.  The effect may surprise me but it will always be my responsibility.  People react how they react.  Are there some people who go over the top?  Yes.  And I condemn them for it.  I for one and many, many others have tried to be nothing but constructive in our criticism of the endings.  But the PR angers me, and that, I'm afraid, is Bioware's doing.

[GeoFukari]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

GeoFukari wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

TheFinalDoctor wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

Skyrim does have an ending to each storyline. In the main storyline you stop the freaking apocalypse Alduin started. saying there was no ending/closure is like saying Mass Effect 2 didn't ende because you could still go finish missions after you destroyed the Collecter base.

No you kill alduin, then you carry on with the next quest.  Thats not like in fallout 3 where you defeat the enclave and then sacrifice yourself for the greater good of the population of the capital wasteland.  Not like it at all.

Wut? You sacrifice yourself only if you don't have Broken Steel installed. And if you don't well tough luck. If only you had a robot companion or a ghoul companion or even a giant unkillable mutant who is immune to pretty much everything to enter the code for you.

Well i have never made my companions do that, since i saw that as sort of renegede choice.  Plus I have been told that you cant get fawkes (super mutant) to go in there, its either you or the girl soldier. thats the choice.

Renegade? Your companions can't be killed by radiation!

If you have Broken Steel installed Sgt RL-3, Fawkes or Charon can activate the purifier.

I dont like broken steel.  I felt the original ending did the story justice.  That particluar dlc just retconned the ending and then gave us no ending, similar to skyrim.  

Thats the point of Bethesda games though.... They are about exploring the environment. And while they are working on Story stuff in their games now, It'll be a while until they get to the level of Bioware.

If you don't like that type of game, don't play it.

But i liked fallout 3 because it was different from their usual games, which s why i ultimately gave skyrim a go.  
It seems bethseda tried something different with fallout 3 by having it controlled by its story while also giving you the option to explore.  But fans didnt like the ending which led them to retconning it with their usual methods.
And also at least fallout 3 had a morality system (similar to ME).  Skyrim had none.
And choosing to sacrifice your self or your companion (remember pre broken steel release) does seem very paragon/renegade.

Actually, many people weren't upset with the ending. Unliek with ME3, a small majority held opposition to it, and even then it was because they wanted to explore more of the world, not because the ending was broken.

No morality in Skyrim? You have an issue with this? TES Series has no morality. The system is different from Fallout in that YOU choose what is moral or not. Even more so, Skyrim was MADE for mods. THIS is what sets it apart, and even better than most other games.

As for your last point, Yes it does. But so does the last choice you get in the enclave base. Blow up the Enclave or... blow up something else. (With held info because of spoiler). That is Para/Rene also. Personally, I dislike a story that relies too much on morality.

But you are free to your own opinion.

[Peregrin25]

People like this are the kind of people that are wrong with any media industry, weather it be music movies or video games. People like this do not belong. And what the hell kinda name is Duane anyway? Never liked it. The name reminds me of a guy my mom dated that used to drink and beat me and my brother for 4 years. I already despise this guy just for his name. And then the fact there is that he assumes everyone should get their ending.

Everyone at BioWare right now is riding on the fail train. I hope they get their just desert. I dunno what I am more pissed off about though. The ending and plot holes or the fact we were lied to our faces. I dunno which is worse.

[ReXspec]

Congrats, Mr. Webb. You not only underminded the majority of the fan base, but you made yet another disastrous PR nightmare for Bioware to deal with.

-sigh- Why am I still following Bioware? Why am I still holding on to the notion that the EC will at least try to salvage the ending?

Modifié par ReXspec, 12 mai 2012 - 01:14 .

[GeoFukari]

nexworks wrote...

GeoFukari wrote...
If I had to go on a date with the personification of Bioware, Bethesda or Valve.... Well... Lets just say Bioware isn't getting any.

Valve is smart and attractive, but is a perfectionist and takes forever to get ready.

I could get lost in conversation with Bethesda for months, but all its psychosis (bugs) will eventually wear me out.

Bioware just kicked me out of a moving car after a wonderful, exciting, and romantic 120 hour road trip vacation. I think Bioware broke up with me, but all I heard as I rolled out of the car was "This whole ride was the ending! Speculate on what that means!"

Valve also can't count to three... SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO unattractive. But sooner or later, they will learn.

Bethesda, yeah, but with a bit of makeup (mods) I can get to like it.

Bioware was a great passionate and steamy one night stand. One that I would have loved to continue, but they violently through me out of their window just as we finished, then asked me for money for a taxi.

[IanPolaris]

chemiclord wrote...

So... let me get this straight. They shouldn't say anything at all?

Yet I see thread after thread here of "WHY ISN'T BIOWARE TALKING TO US!!!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!"

Can we at least figure out what we want from these guys before we start taking them to task for not giving it to us?

Both can be true and in this case it is.  Bioware dropped the ball big time in the crucial two weeks following ME3's release. Bioware NEEDED to reassure it's fans and customers and didn't.  Business schools will be studying this as a case study of how now to do marketing for years if not decades to come.

However, NOW the damage has been done, and anything Bioware says now will just make things worse.

The two are not contradictory.

-Polaris

[GeoFukari]

ReXspec wrote...

Congrats, Mr. Webb. You not only underminded the majority of the fan base, but you made yet another disastrous PR nightmare for Bioware to deal with.

-sigh- Why am I still following Bioware? Why am I still holding on to the notion that the EC will at least try to salvage the ending?

Hope.

It is still in the box. But Bioware may just open the box again, even with them knowing what happened the last time they did.

[CGAVnerDune]

ReggarBlane wrote...


Duane Webb: Co-director of Production at BioWare. Franchise Project Manager for Mass Effect.

Can someone please tell me how to get in contact with Mr. Webb and Bioware?  It seems my copy of Mass Effect 3 is defective.  I played the game for 30+ hours and I didn't have any indication I was playing the ending of the game that long.  Were there credits in other peoples games that I missed?

Stupidity aside this is about as dumb as you can get and not be on some special needs program.  Everyone realises that this is the final game in the trilogy.  So its no big surprise that a lot of plot arcs are ending in this game.  Every trilogy or series ever made does this but it doesn't mean the final book/movie/game is one giant ending.  

What a Pretentious f-******.

[hoodaticus]

IanPolaris wrote...

razor150 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

This isn't Skyrim forums and personally I never played Skyrim.

Also Bethesda and the TES series has never been known for anything other than average to mediocre storytelling and writing.  It's the open epic worlds that is Skyrim's selling point (like with most other TES games).  Bioware is supposed to be the master of storytelling......that was the theory anyway....

-Polaris

And that is EXACTLY what we're really mourning here, and why we're trying to persuade Bioware.  We don't want Bioware to die.  We want them to come back!  Frankly, DA2 and the end of ME3 make it seem like Bioware is already lost.  We're holding onto hope, but there isn't much left.

We are sad because without Bioware, there is no reliable entity that can still produce true epics.  That is a loss for the human race as a whole.

[braisbr1]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

braisbr1 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Its funny how everyone moans about ME3 ending. But the truth is, at least it had an ending (not a good one mind you).

But then noone moans about Skyrim which has no ending. No that really put me off ever playing that game again.

if you compare Skyrim to Mass Effect in terms of the ending... then you either haven't played a lot of games or you don't get what each of those are about. 

Wait, are you calling me stupid.....because that is wrong (being sarcastic, also ironic considering what this thread is about.)

No, I'm not calling you stupid, just that I consider that the comparison is out of place. Skyrim is not a game intended to reach an end, whereas Mass Effect is. 

[_aLucidMind_]

chemiclord wrote...

So... let me get this straight. They shouldn't say anything at all?

Yet I see thread after thread here of "WHY ISN'T BIOWARE TALKING TO US!!!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!"

Can we at least figure out what we want from these guys before we start taking them to task for not giving it to us?

People are complaining that BioWare isn't bothering to talk to us as people and explain their side or what they were getting at or anything with the ending. Instead, they go for condescending, inflamatory comments that just make them appear arrogant and bigoted. While many forum-goers can be accurately accused of the same thing (especially being bigoted), BioWare has shown they are not above doing the same thing to everyone rather than just the ones who are legitimately being pricks towards them.

[Praetor Knight]

Hmm... so, ME3 is like The Long Goodbye...


Meh, I dunno.

[Dawson14]

Peregrin25 wrote...

People like this are the kind of people that are wrong with any media industry, weather it be music movies or video games. People like this do not belong. And what the hell kinda name is Duane anyway? Never liked it. The name reminds me of a guy my mom dated that used to drink and beat me and my brother for 4 years. I already despise this guy just for his name. And then the fact there is that he assumes everyone should get their ending.

Everyone at BioWare right now is riding on the fail train. I hope they get their just desert. I dunno what I am more pissed off about though. The ending and plot holes or the fact we were lied to our faces. I dunno which is worse.

Lol, I don't know why I think your comment is so funny, but I think it is because you worked in how one of your Mom's old BFs beat you and your brother out of no where.

[Peregrin25]

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

So... let me get this straight. They shouldn't say anything at all?

Yet I see thread after thread here of "WHY ISN'T BIOWARE TALKING TO US!!!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!"

Can we at least figure out what we want from these guys before we start taking them to task for not giving it to us?

People are complaining that BioWare isn't bothering to talk to us as people and explain their side or what they were getting at or anything with the ending. Instead, they go for condescending, inflamatory comments that just make them appear arrogant and bigoted. While many forum-goers can be accurately accused of the same thing (especially being bigoted), BioWare has shown they are not above doing the same thing to everyone rather than just the ones who are legitimately being pricks towards them.

On top of that I have seen twitter posts with BioWare employees using evil smileys in their posts that 9 times out of 10 have a condecending response. If that is the kind of thing we can expect from BioWare... Unprofessional.

Funny thing is the things I wish I could truly say in response to BioWare's comments would get me banned. I can't help how I fell. Atleast I am doing the mature thing and staying somewhat civil and not making condesending remarks...

Modifié par Peregrin25, 12 mai 2012 - 01:30 .

[Dawson14]

Peregrin25 wrote...

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

So... let me get this straight. They shouldn't say anything at all?

Yet I see thread after thread here of "WHY ISN'T BIOWARE TALKING TO US!!!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!"

Can we at least figure out what we want from these guys before we start taking them to task for not giving it to us?

People are complaining that BioWare isn't bothering to talk to us as people and explain their side or what they were getting at or anything with the ending. Instead, they go for condescending, inflamatory comments that just make them appear arrogant and bigoted. While many forum-goers can be accurately accused of the same thing (especially being bigoted), BioWare has shown they are not above doing the same thing to everyone rather than just the ones who are legitimately being pricks towards them.

On top of that I have seen twitter posts with BioWare employees using evil smileys in their posts that 9 times out of 10 have a condecending response. If that is the kind of thing we can expect from BioWare... Unprofessional.

Funny thing is the things I wish I could truly say in response to BioWare's comments would get me banned. I can't help how I fell. Atleast I am doing the mature thing and staying somewhat civil and not making condesending remarks...

Yea, same here. Have to be civil to not get banned because I like these forums, but on Duane's twitter? Not a chance. Could care less if I get banned from that.




Perfectly used

Modifié par Dawson14, 12 mai 2012 - 01:33 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Lol, fail. If the entire game is an ending, then the very last 5 minutes of the ending was still literary vomit. Doesn't change anything, really.

[Mims]

Without reading what I am sure are other awesome comments, bioware:

You can either have an entire game that is an ending, or a game that is stand alone. Which is it? You obviously intended new people to pick it up, so suggesting the entire game is the falling action of a story is just silly. Its not. Its a part of the narrative structure just like any other trilogy.

If you legitimately built it to be just a very long ending, then obviously, you've seen how that turns out. You can be as artsy as you want, but you have to be a special kind of person to pull off a non-traditional story structure. I love Mass Effect. But it isn't No Country for Old Men. You have to follow certain rules or...exactly this happens.