626 réponses à ce sujet

[SlyTF1]

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

Words of wisdom.

[unoriginalname1133]

LinksOcarina wrote...

unoriginalname1133 wrote...

This goes into one issue I had with Mass Effect 3 as a whole; the lack of true catharis. I said in my original review that the game felt like a long-paced marathon, a very depressing, harrowing tale that had no moments of levity or breathing into it that we were accustomed to in previous titles. They tried to do it, but it was always predecated with a sense of impending doom. "Were gonna die, so lets break the law and skeet shoot on top of the citadel." "Were gonna die, so let me dance despite having brittle bone disease." Were gonna die, so let's look for a canadian lager to drink and enjoy one last time." Were gonna die, so let me get a tattoo of N7 on my back."

Things like those above were great little moments that gave people character growth, but the problem was the "were gonna die" part. Even Shepard was doubtful for most of the game. I don't fault BioWare for doing this, but it makes the game very difficult to swallow. So in some respects, the reivewer is actually correct in saying this is an hour long goodbye in that regard. And, in following most literary tropes and creative writing courses, it tied up a lot of loose ends and culminated characters quite well up until the final ten minutes.

So for me, that was a bigger issue, coupled with a lack of closure from the ending, that made me a bit indifferent about the game. 

Still one the best out there right now, so I do hope that the Extended Cut does alleviate some more plot holes and stuff like that.

Sure, there were plenty of moments where the characters had their "live like there's no tomorrow" moments, but there were also moments of hope. There was Tali picking spots on Rannoch to build her home with Shepard. There was Garrus telling Shepard during his goodbye that he (Shepard) was born for this moment where he beats the Reapers, and that they could retire and drink on a beach after they won. I NEVER felt like I was just dragging myself forward towards inevitible defeat, making it all the worse that the game forces it on you at the end. I cannot concieve why Bioware would not give the players a way to actaully win the war

Modifié par unoriginalname1133, 12 mai 2012 - 04:15 .

[The Vanquished1]

If ME3 was/is one "Big Ending", then they shouldn't bother doing any DLC where the single-player is concerned, why pay to get more big ending B.S. It's like saying when you're eating your salad before the main course meal, that you're already eating dessert. Just another big plot-hole in their logic, that's all that is. Man Bioware is full of hubris that's for sure.

[NoSpin]

The final work in a series is supposed to provide a satisfying conclusion. Return of The King wasn't one big ending. Mockingjay, Return of the Jedi, Deathly Hallows, The Last Battle, Dark Knight Rises (maybe?), Back to the Future III...they aren't one "big ending", they are satisfying conclusions.

If you go into the final work of a series with the goal to make it all one big ending, you are doing it wrong.

[The Vanquished1]

Where the long-term fans are concerned Bioware snubbed their noses at us and flunked the "Loyalty Mission." I guess our Loyalty points don't really matter in the present, but just wait till their next game comes out then we can demonstrate the proper Renegade effect of lost loyalty by just not buying it.

[chemiclord]

The Vanquished1 wrote...

Where the long-term fans are concerned Bioware snubbed their noses at us and flunked the "Loyalty Mission." I guess our Loyalty points don't really matter in the present, but just wait till their next game comes out then we can demonstrate the proper Renegade effect of lost loyalty by just not buying it.

Finally someone gets it!

[aj2070]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, stepping in here a second

1 - Duane is entitled to his opinion, just like you all are entitled to yours
2 - So is the writer of the article
3 - Duane is likely referencing that the person who wrote the article viewed the entire game of ME3 as an ending, which it is. This is what the team intended, which is the "gets it". Yes, you can discuss how successful we were or whatever, but this was the goal.
4 - Some people like the ending and they are welcome to express that here the same way that those who didn't like it express their opinions.
5 - Just because Duane does or doesn't feel a certain way doesn't mean anything about the Extended Cut.

Respectuflly exersising my right to express my opinion:

• Agreed
• Agreed
• Through the 8 (at the time I have read up to and including your post) pages of replies, I think we all understand Mass Effect 3 is an "ending", the sentiment appears to be that the game was ending so well then for some unknown reason, you (BioWare) introduced a whole new conflict in the last 10-15 minutes, reslove it in a simplified manor, and (for lack of a better word) imasculate Shepard by having him/her simply pick a choice given when this character has made a game career of defying unacceptable choices
• Agreed
• I wish I could believe that but when a co-founder of the company blogs that our ending is genius but we will "clarify" it for those who don't get it, it is easy for those of us who don't get it to take this to mean the Extended Cut will be the ending only louder, slower and using smaller words so we will "get it".

Modifié par aj2070, 12 mai 2012 - 05:26 .

[Bob3terd]

After reading that i think i hate the ending more

Modifié par Bob3terd, 12 mai 2012 - 05:42 .

[Iucounou]

The thing that has annoyed me most about the whole ending affair IS the way Bioware have (mis)handled it.

They could have said. "We're sorry you didn't like the ending we put in. Here's what we intended (insert explanation). Tell us what you expected and we'll see what we can do."

What they actually said. "Our ending is too high-brow for the likes of you. Go away kid, ya bother me!"

It makes me think of Bioware as being populated entirely with people like Sheldon Cooper from the Big Bang Theory. Socially inept individuals that believe they are better than everybody else simply because they have a piece of paper that tells them they are smart.

I'm sorry, but if you make a game "for the masses" you really ought to pitch it at a level that "the masses" will understand. If you don't there'll be a backlash.

I was expecting something quite different than what I was given. No amount of back-pedalling will ever change that. If the EC fails I foresee very dark days ahead for Bioware.

[Iakus]

The Vanquished1 wrote...

I'm at the point now where I believe the best way to develop a game is to never do direct sequels. Do like a Final Fantasy/Oblivion type deal where you tell the story and wrap it up in one game and then do another game in the same world with totally different characters and storyline. At least you would get variety, plotholes would be almost non-existant, and a different team of writers from game to game could do their own stories without stomping all over the grave of a previous writers hard work.

Agreed

[Myrmedus]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, stepping in here a second

1 - Duane is entitled to his opinion, just like you all are entitled to yours
2 - So is the writer of the article
3 - Duane is likely referencing that the person who wrote the article viewed the entire game of ME3 as an ending, which it is. This is what the team intended, which is the "gets it". Yes, you can discuss how successful we were or whatever, but this was the goal.
4 - Some people like the ending and they are welcome to express that here the same way that those who didn't like it express their opinions.
5 - Just because Duane does or doesn't feel a certain way doesn't mean anything about the Extended Cut.

And may I ask what exactly it is about the comments of those who dislike the ending that has given Mr. Webb the idea that we don't "get it" (that the whole game is an ending)?

We do, we simply think it's a crap ending.

While I respect that everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, I would expect the voiced opinion of someone in such a position to be more informed and measured. These people get paid an awful lot of money for the position they hold within the company and with that comes a degree of responsibility, public focus and representation of the company you work for as a whole. If you phrase things in a potentially abrasive manner as a "Co-Director" then that will reflect not only upon you but the company you work for as well. I would suggest that if someone is unable to deal with that kind of responsibility they shouldn't hold a more lofty working position because the responsibility dodging arguments don't hold any water.

Really, everyone knows this is a very touchy subject at the moment so was it really a prudent move in his position?

Modifié par Myrmedus, 12 mai 2012 - 06:09 .

[Mims]

The sad thing is after all this, we probably won't get a direct sequel/trilogy bioware game for a while. Which makes me sad, because that is actually the thing that made me love mass effect.

[/Not counting DA as a 'direct sequel' game, since it seems they'll be doing new characters each game with minor variances in story as a throw back to the others.]

[CronoDragoon]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, stepping in here a second

1 - Duane is entitled to his opinion, just like you all are entitled to yours
2 - So is the writer of the article
3 - Duane is likely referencing that the person who wrote the article viewed the entire game of ME3 as an ending, which it is. This is what the team intended, which is the "gets it". Yes, you can discuss how successful we were or whatever, but this was the goal.
4 - Some people like the ending and they are welcome to express that here the same way that those who didn't like it express their opinions.
5 - Just because Duane does or doesn't feel a certain way doesn't mean anything about the Extended Cut.

As far as #3 goes, so far as all the major plot points were being concluded during the course of ME3, yes it is a giant ending. And most people loved it. Then they feel that the ending to the ending, the last 15 minutes, undid the hard work of the previous 30 hours. If I write a romantic comedy where a couple gets together in the penultimate scene, and then the final scene shows the girl getting hit by a bus, then the previous scene wasn't really an ending, was it? It didn't really provide closure, did it? The last 15 minutes felt like we got hit by a bus.

[Tirranek]

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

Except people have got it. It might be a relatively small number, but if anything that makes it a niche, which art thrives on.

Disclaimer: I don't think ME ever was art, so the whole integrity debate is a hollow argument regardless.

[Myrmedus]

Tirranek wrote...

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

Except people have got it. It might be a relatively small number, but if anything that makes it a niche, which art thrives on.

Disclaimer: I don't think ME ever was art, so the whole integrity debate is a hollow argument regardless.

I'd seriously debate whether the people who "got it" really have got it at all rather than simply filling in the numerous gaps with their own imaginings.

[The Night Mammoth]

Tirranek wrote...

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

Except people have got it. It might be a relatively small number, but if anything that makes it a niche, which art thrives on.

Disclaimer: I don't think ME ever was art, so the whole integrity debate is a hollow argument regardless.

I dunno, there's not much to 'get'. 

I don't think what we have it particularly difficult to understand except for the part BioWare apparently thought was their objective, and that's the speculation part. There's really not that much to speculate on. Most of what people seem to have decided on is more imagination than extrapolation. 

[webhead921]

Myrmedus wrote...

Tirranek wrote...

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

Except people have got it. It might be a relatively small number, but if anything that makes it a niche, which art thrives on.

Disclaimer: I don't think ME ever was art, so the whole integrity debate is a hollow argument regardless.

I'd seriously debate whether the people who "got it" really have got it at all rather than simply filling in the numerous gaps with their own imaginings.

I'm not saying that I think it was a smart move to leave it without closure, but my impression was that Bioware wanted to make an ending where we would have to fill in the blanks with our imaginations.  They provided closure to the subplots, but then left the ultimate fate of the galaxy open for the player to imagine.  I think almost everyone here "gets it," they just don't like it.  I can understand and respect their opinion, and it's definitely a justified opinion.  I'd like to leave some things open ended, but I want more closure than what we got.  Hopefully the extended cut fixes this.

Modifié par webhead921, 12 mai 2012 - 06:28 .

[20x6]

Sayantsi wrote...

cop out.

Agreed!

I think the writers of the game and the news and media think us to be morons.  I've stated before that most of Mass Effect's fan base are professional mid-twenty to late 30 somethings.  

We "get it".


ME:1 was fighting against a symbiotic relationship with the reapers.
ME:2 was fighting against controlling the reapers.
ME:3 was about being a hypocrite no matter what choice you make.

Saren wanted Synthesis, but we stopped him.
TIM wanted the destruction of the reaper AI, and the control of the reaper tech for the human race.

So the writers let us use "space magic" to fulfil Saren's wish, or fulfil TIM's wish fully or partially.


We get it.  We also get that the delivery was so terrible we wanted to pretend the ending never happened.

[Omega Torsk]

ReggarBlane wrote...


Duane Webb: Co-director of Production at BioWare. Franchise Project Manager for Mass Effect.

He is referring to this article.
My Mass Effect 3 Ending Lasted 34 Hours. It Was Wonderful.

The article essentially says that ME3 is one long goodbye to everyone and everything in Mass Effect.

But no, ME3 was not a gigantic ending. It was the last installment of a trilogy leading up to nothingness.

Stop trying to justify the ending with art! Thousands of people "don't get it," there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with that! It tells me that you had an idea for something, but failed in its implementation. And it shows!

Even David Chase was prepared to explain the Soprano's ending, and you know what? It actually made sense when all things were taken into account. With ME3, there's no room for interpretation. The plot holes are gigantic and it ends so abruptly, it has you literally scratching your head wondering what the flying frak just happened.

[Tirranek]

Myrmedus wrote...

Tirranek wrote...

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

Except people have got it. It might be a relatively small number, but if anything that makes it a niche, which art thrives on.

Disclaimer: I don't think ME ever was art, so the whole integrity debate is a hollow argument regardless.

I'd seriously debate whether the people who "got it" really have got it at all rather than simply filling in the numerous gaps with their own imaginings.

Like the IT theory, you mean?

Seriously, I'm not saying Mass Effect and David Lynch movies should be compared as similar entities, but if you look at his movies, the sorts of questions you are often left asking at the end of his films are what people are calling plot holes in ME3.

[The Vanquished1]

Eh, if Bioware says it's art, it's art. It's their expression of art I guess. ME1, yeah it was a trailblazer very artistic, but once they got sucked down the corporate rabbit hole their art, well let's just say it got sloppy and really became like all the other mediocre stuff out there on the market. They lost their muse or rather it seemed they lost focus. They had it nailed from the start, they had the momentum of art but then they just fizzled out like a geriatric fart.

[dreamgazer]

Tirranek wrote...

Like the IT theory, you mean?

Seriously, I'm not saying Mass Effect and David Lynch movies should be compared as similar entities, but if you look at his movies, the sorts of questions you are often left asking at the end of his films are what people are calling plot holes in ME3.

Definitely agree there, especially thinking in terms of Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive. I've thought that on more than a few occasions.

[ardias89]

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

This