626 réponses à ce sujet

[Isichar]

suntzuxi wrote...

in my play-through of Mass Effect 3 I came to think of the entire game as the ending.

Exactly what I tought when I beat ME3 for the frist time. to me, mass effect 3 is like baldurs gate II throne of bhaal. the whole game , not the last 15 mins ending sequence, is a summary of Shepard's final fate . The last 10-15 mins may not be perfect but it's servicable.

Ah yes ToB, that game actually had an epilogue, something ME3 could have used...

[M0keys]

aaaand here's Grub

"No. This is just... no.

It is not 'The ending.' The third act is not solely the ending of anything. It's the final confrontation, not a farewell tour. You don't say 'goodbye' by still fighting the bad guy with the threat of defeat looming over your head. (I mean, you can, but not in the way I mean. Denouement does not come before the climax. Like, ever.)

The ending comes - SURPRISE! - at the end of the 3rd act. The ending of the Star Wars trilogy is the second Death star blowing up/Emperor dying, Lando & Luke escaping, and the rebels celebrating and saying goodbye on Endor. Climax, falling action, denouement. The ending of Lord of the Rings movie trilogy is Gollum falling into Mt. Doom with the Ring, Frodo and Sam escaping from the destruction, and everyone celebrating and saying goodbye. Climax, falling action, denouement. The end of the Bourne movie trilogy is Bourne finding the truth in the building, jumping off the building, and swimming off into the night. Climax, falling action, denouement. That's what an ending look like.

There's a whole world full of people who are experienced with dramatic structure. Some know the terminology better than others, but most human beings have an instinctive knowledge of it, and they know when it's wrong. I don't know who you think these comments are fooling, but they're incredibly silly and you should stop saying them before you embarrass yourselves further."

Modifié par M0keys, 13 mai 2012 - 07:46 .

[Sesshaku]

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

Specially when EVERYONE got your art, or the art you intended it to be, and EVERYONE though it was lame and poorly developed.

They failed miserably at that. It's not something to be ashamed of, it's not an easy task, but you have to learn from your mistakes, not embrace them in the shield of Art and insulting all the people that bother to go to your art exhibition.

Chris Priestly wrote...

3 - Duane is likely referencing that the person who wrote the article viewed the entire game of ME3 as an ending, which it is. This is what the team intended, which is the "gets it". Yes, you can discuss how successful we were or whatever, but this was the goal.

Seriously? He promoted the whole thing just because of that? And he's the first one to get that?

I got that from the first teaser trailer....the whole point of it was the ending.



I found it more plausible that he was supporting the way the game ended, wich says a lot about how poor communication there is between fans and "artists".
Bioware should learn three lessons from all this mess:


1º: Don't lie or mislead your clients during production.
2º: Accepting your mistakes publicly and fast will reduce future angry fans. Shielding in stupid stuff as press and "artistic integrity" without even explaining the so called "complexity" of the ending will only lead you to loose loyal fans, you can survive without them, but you should be ashamed.
3º: Learn from Valve, do not make Half life 3 until you're comepletly sure you're doing it right. You may never reach high expectations, but it's better failing with a good product that failing with a clearly faulty one.

Modifié par Sesshaku, 13 mai 2012 - 08:02 .

[20x6]

chemiclord wrote...

So... let me get this straight. They shouldn't say anything at all?

Yet I see thread after thread here of "WHY ISN'T BIOWARE TALKING TO US!!!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!!"

Can we at least figure out what we want from these guys before we start taking them to task for not giving it to us?

Bioware should be speaking factual, not opinionated.
If they have an opinion, now is not the time to toss it up into a twitter feed, especially one assuming that no one "got it".

If they have a release date on something or some sneak-peaks of the extended content, that's something to post.  So far, they have none.

[B3ckett]

Yeah, a freakin' win. Someone after only 2 months since the premiere said got it. Truly, an epic win for you, Duane.

[Austin N]

SilentWolfie wrote...

OH. So the devs' creative design is to create an ending where it's all about Shepard saving people etc for 34 hours as an ending.

Hmm.

At the risk at getting my ID banned or something and honestly I don't care anymore about Bioware, here's my opinion. The dev who wrote 'Finally someone who gets it', you're a douchebag. You're a super douchebag.

I JUST DON'T get it. God. Damn. It. I had to log in because this was BEYOND insulting. So over hundreds of thousands of players "who don't get it" just got insulted again. Oh my god. And this gag order on insulting devs/staff? Screw that. Either control your own staff or remove it. Do you really think we are some mentally deficit morons who're poorly educated? An average player stated your ending sucks. People who play games all the time stated it sucks. Other higher educated users like a literature professor wrote his piece on why your ending sucks. The ending sucks, period, as claimed by many people. Writing "Someone got what we are trying to do!!!" is about the best evidence as to how Bioware COMPLETELY misses what the players care about.

I don't need to reiterate as to why the ending sucks again because that's the topic two months ago. Jesus Christ.

Y'know, normally I tow the line about how it's important for retakers to remain civil and not resort to blatant insults.

But man was that satisfying to read.

[ploppy54]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, stepping in here a second

1 - Duane is entitled to his opinion, just like you all are entitled to yours
2 - So is the writer of the article
3 - Duane is likely referencing that the person who wrote the article viewed the entire game of ME3 as an ending, which it is. This is what the team intended, which is the "gets it". Yes, you can discuss how successful we were or whatever, but this was the goal.
4 - Some people like the ending and they are welcome to express that here the same way that those who didn't like it express their opinions.
5 - Just because Duane does or doesn't feel a certain way doesn't mean anything about the Extended Cut.

Ok thats the kicker right there the whole game is an ending so please tell me why you ended the game the way you did and not one of your tallented staff say "erm hey wait a minute this ending sucks!"

so basicly your saying the ending is ok because the whole game is an ending not just the last 10 minutes, but lets aim this at new players because they don't have a previous story and won't have a bloody clue whats going on anyway so to them its artist ingregraty and to the old players well thats ok too because they get the whole game as an ending???

[Austin N]

SilentWolfie wrote...

OH. So the devs' creative design is to create an ending where it's all about Shepard saving people etc for 34 hours as an ending.

Hmm.

At the risk at getting my ID banned or something and honestly I don't care anymore about Bioware, here's my opinion. The dev who wrote 'Finally someone who gets it', you're a douchebag. You're a super douchebag.

I JUST DON'T get it. God. Damn. It. I had to log in because this was BEYOND insulting. So over hundreds of thousands of players "who don't get it" just got insulted again. Oh my god. And this gag order on insulting devs/staff? Screw that. Either control your own staff or remove it. Do you really think we are some mentally deficit morons who're poorly educated? An average player stated your ending sucks. People who play games all the time stated it sucks. Other higher educated users like a literature professor wrote his piece on why your ending sucks. The ending sucks, period, as claimed by many people. Writing "Someone got what we are trying to do!!!" is about the best evidence as to how Bioware COMPLETELY misses what the players care about.

I don't need to reiterate as to why the ending sucks again because that's the topic two months ago. Jesus Christ.

Quoting this again, but I wanted to add something. Different cultures like different things. They place value on elements in fiction that people in other countries might dislike or just not care about. One interesting thing about this is how the response to the endings have been unanimous, not just in the United States, but everywhere else. Europe, Japan, heck, I remember seeing a topic here by a native of South Africa. No matter the culture, the hate for the endings has been the same.

Bioware, the world has spoken. And they think your ending sucks.

[devSin]

Austin N wrote...

But man was that satisfying to read.

Agreed.

Although I don't view it as an insult. The response is legitimate.

[Haargel]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

Though I dislike the endings, I must say Mr. Priestly is right.
Everyone is entitled to have his or her own opinion.

I was actually more upset over the people screaming that they want so see Bioware staff fired, calling them names and so on. It's not the way to communicate.

Keep it polite.

There must be a good reason why Bioware isn't responding, let's wait untill the EC, remember...this IS Bioware. They're the masters of RPG

Modifié par Haargel, 14 mai 2012 - 12:44 .

[Iwillbeback]

The ending is like having unprotected sex and not seeing the children after.

[bpzrn]

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

[Tonymac]

Haargel wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

Though I dislike the endings, I must say Mr. Priestly is right.
Everyone is entitled to have his or her own opinion.

I was actually more upset over the people screaming that they want so see Bioware staff fired, calling them names and so on. It's not the way to communicate.

Keep it polite.

There must be a good reason why Bioware isn't responding, let's wait untill the EC, remember...this IS Bioware. They're the masters of RPG

They just want you to wait while they count their cash.  They are trying to hold the ratings they have, not let them drop.  IF they were the "Masters" of RPG then we would not be sitting here with this terdslop of an ending we have - even if the whole game is an 'ending'.  I didn't need full closure - this was their idea.

As far as I am concerned, if they were "Masters" they would have done an ending worthy of a Master.  Choices made in ME1 and 2 would have counted.  The outcomes would have ranged from total success to total failure.  Oh wait, that sounds EXACTLY like ME2.  Imagine that. 

What changed from ME2 to ME3?  Where did the magic go?

[veramis]

Does Duane Webb get that his company has lost millions in sales/future sales with what they did with ME3? That's only about a million times more important than kotaku getting whatever.

[unoriginalname1133]

Haargel wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

Though I dislike the endings, I must say Mr. Priestly is right.
Everyone is entitled to have his or her own opinion.

I was actually more upset over the people screaming that they want so see Bioware staff fired, calling them names and so on. It's not the way to communicate.

Keep it polite.

There must be a good reason why Bioware isn't responding, let's wait untill the EC, remember...this IS Bioware. They're the masters of RPG

I hope you're right about Bioware having some sort of ace up their sleeve. You are definitely right that everyone is entitled to their opinion and that things work best for everyone when we remain civil.

Do you acknowledge, though, that it seems a bit condescending to imply that so many of us who dislike the ending do so because we don't "get it" (e.g. that we are a bunch of knuckle-dragging yokels)? Mr. Webb is certainly entitled to his opinion, but the WISDOM of voicing such an opinion in such a public way seems suspect in light of the recent backlash

[LinksOcarina]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

None of the greatest artist were understood by the majority in their time. It's only after their death that they became awesome.

Just wait... 

It's funny, ive seen this quote come up several times, and the sad truth is, since art is subjective, you don't have to get anything to be a successful artist.

You just have to fail at being recognizaed as an artist. And, like it or not, that is not happening with Mass Effect 3. 

[SilentWolfie]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

None of the greatest artist were understood by the majority in their time. It's only after their death that they became awesome.

Just wait... 

By that statement you think Bioware comes up with the best stories, or has equivalent fame to Tolkien, or Rowling. No.

By that statement you think Bioware does good stories with good gameplay, yes, I can agree with that. *Greatest?* Not a chance.

So if are to assume that Bioware devs are "artists", Hitler was also an artist. Did he become famous because he drew some pictures? Nope. We remember him due to another reason. Bioware? Well, I think I'll remember them for stating "Artistic vision and integrity" and "Someone finally gets it".

It's probably mean to equate them on the level of Hitler, but oh well, Bioware doesn't get it anyway.

[BigglesFlysAgain]

They seem to miss the point that all the "closure" is undone by the ending, imagine in another game you saved a village from a dragon, then at the end of the game you find out that all the villagers died in a random barbarian raid so saving them from the dragon was pointless. No one lives for ever, nothing lasts forever, but bear in mind it was just last week you saved them from the dragon, no one expects them to be immortal, but most people imagine the point of doing something or saving someone would be to let them live a reasonable peroid of time before a different fate catches them. I.e the genophage, and Rannoch...

[BladyMZ]

How can you call Mass Effect 3 an ending, if last words you see after completion is "buy downloadable content"? Also, if people are stacking up questions about fate of races, main characters and hero himself, it more than speculation. It is not like I finished a fine meal in restaurant and feel, that I would love to have some more. I feel hungry, because my dish was incomplete and lacked salad. Conclusion, I mean.

[Pattonesque]

I'm not sure that I've ever seen "the entire third X is the ending" used as a standard in any form of media before this one. It sounds like a reach, honestly.

[AndreasShepard]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

None of the greatest artist were understood by the majority in their time. It's only after their death that they became awesome.

Just wait... 

Ok that's nowhere near true, Davinci, Michelangelo, and Picasso were all incredibly famous/ well respected and sought after during their lifetimes.

Modifié par AndreasShepard, 14 mai 2012 - 06:59 .

[BigglesFlysAgain]

AndreasShepard wrote...




Ok that's nowhere near true, Davinci, Michelangelo, and Picasso were all incredibly famous/ well respected and sought after during their lifetimes.

Besides even if they are, it will still not be mainstream adoration, the way graphics age so quickly will put most future people off in the same way only people really into art look at medival paintings where the artist had not yet learned how to use perspective...

Modifié par BigglesFlysAgain, 14 mai 2012 - 07:05 .

[MattFini]

"The entirety of Mass Effect 3 is the ending" is the dumbest sentiment I've seen on BSN, and the thinnest defense for that ending yet.

There still needs to be a cohesive beginning, middle and end.  You're telling a story.  The crux of ME3 is uniting the galaxy.  The story is there.  There's a very clear first act.  Second act.  The thrid act begins ... and that's where things go to hell.

Yes, the overarching story of ME3 in context of the series begins to wrap things up.  Doesn't change the fact that THE DEVIL INSIDE has a better ending than ME3 - or, at least a comprable one. 

Modifié par MattFini, 17 mai 2012 - 07:52 .

[FlamingBoy]

veramis wrote...

Does Duane Webb get that his company has lost millions in sales/future sales with what they did with ME3? That's only about a million times more important than kotaku getting whatever.

no mate, they are idoits, i can say that objectively (well not really but i like to think so:P)