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[The Invisible Commando]

Did Star Wars end with Luke dying and merging the Empire and Rebels? Been a long time since I've see the movies, I don't remember that part though. Thought it was more satisfying.

[Chris Priestly]

Ok, stepping in here a second

1 - Duane is entitled to his opinion, just like you all are entitled to yours
2 - So is the writer of the article
3 - Duane is likely referencing that the person who wrote the article viewed the entire game of ME3 as an ending, which it is. This is what the team intended, which is the "gets it". Yes, you can discuss how successful we were or whatever, but this was the goal.
4 - Some people like the ending and they are welcome to express that here the same way that those who didn't like it express their opinions.
5 - Just because Duane does or doesn't feel a certain way doesn't mean anything about the Extended Cut.

[Taboo]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, stepping in here a second

1 - Duane is entitled to his opinion, just like you all are entitled to yours
2 - So is the writer of the article
3 - Duane is likely referencing that the person who wrote the article viewed the entire game of ME3 as an ending, which it is. This is what the team intended, which is the "gets it". Yes, you can discuss how successful we were or whatever, but this was the goal.
4 - Some people like the ending and they are welcome to express that here the same way that those who didn't like it express their opinions.
5 - Just because Duane does or doesn't feel a certain way doesn't mean anything about the Extended Cut.

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

[Chris Priestly]

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

[Taboo]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

Of course.

A higher level position on something can make everyone below them look bad.

I know you know this.

What will happen when the truth comes out?

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 11 mai 2012 - 10:13 .

[Thorn Harvestar]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, stepping in here a second

1 - Duane is entitled to his opinion, just like you all are entitled to yours
2 - So is the writer of the article
3 - Duane is likely referencing that the person who wrote the article viewed the entire game of ME3 as an ending, which it is. This is what the team intended, which is the "gets it". Yes, you can discuss how successful we were or whatever, but this was the goal.
4 - Some people like the ending and they are welcome to express that here the same way that those who didn't like it express their opinions.
5 - Just because Duane does or doesn't feel a certain way doesn't mean anything about the Extended Cut.

I will say that I agree that the whole game did a good job of tying up loose ends, so I get #3. It's just, with what little we have to speculate with for the endings, all of those tied-up loose ends are thrown into jeopardy. 

Thanks for taking a moment to step in here.

[loungeshep]

Oh the internet, never a dull moment. Even in its redundancy.

[Garlador]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

Perhaps, but I absolutely do not appreciate being told that I "do not get" the ending. I've played every game multiple times, bought every comic tie-in, purchased every DLC, own every collector's edition, got every single achievement, and know the codex lore like the back of my hand.

I get it. And I'm insulted someone from Bioware would bluntly say "no, you didn't."

To quote Roger Ebert, "if you have to ask what it symbolizes, it didn't." That is the epitome of FAILED ART.

Try all you want, make mistakes if you want, but as a creator and artist, one should have the humility to acknowledge one's failures and not cling to every drivel of praise to dismiss universal disdain and logical criticism.

I know it's soul crushing to have so many people hate, reject, and analyze where Mass Effect 3 dropped the ball so hard and upset so many fans, but it's also the time to swallow some humble pie and accept that if so many people "did not get it", then maybe the problem wasn't with US, the paying customers, it was with those creating it in the first place.

[Drake-Shepard]

Jenonax wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I actually took some time to think about this, whether the last entry to the series can be one long 'ending'.

It can't.

Narratively speaking, at the very least, you cannot make an entire story an 'ending' in this sense. It doesn't work, no matter how symbolic you want to make it. Tying up loose ends in a series doesn't necessarily have to be in an ending, a loose end can be resolved right smack bang in the middle of the series if need be, so this criteria doesn't make something an ending.

Playing through the third game, it is obviously meant to be structured as its own story, as an entry to a series should be. Regardless of how many 'goodbyes' there are, or what order it has been released in, a film/game/book needs a beginning, middle and end.

If what they were trying to do was make this entry one long ending, then conceptually that's nonsensical. Why not make the first game one long beginning, where absolutely nothing is resolved, no questions are answered and the entire time is spent introducing things? The first game doesn't do that, it tells its own story that leads into another story, huge difference.

And not to mention even if it is a series of conclusions, why is the very last conclusion the only one that isn't remotely satisfactory nor within the main themes that the previous entries worked so hard at establishing?

Frankly, if that's what this is, and they genuinely meant ME3 to be one long protracted ending and not its own story, then that makes it even more patently ludicrous that their defense is 'Artistic Integrity'.

This.  Well done good sir, this is the absolute truth.  Fail Bioware, just ... fail.

so true. I am currently watching stargate atlantis. 1st time since it was first on tv.
They have tied up the replicator story that they introduced in series 2. They finished that arc half way through season 4. There are 5 seasons in total.
Another example is the  revelations about S1EP1 long running question about how the wraith (long running enemy) gained the advantage and won the war. Revealed in season 4. And it made complete sense.
At the same time the show manages to tie up season story lines and episode storylines as it goes along.
It's actually like they thought about it.

So yeah. you are right...it can easily be done. All you need is half-decent planning

[Xellith]

I disliked the ending but I also disliked the ending of the ending? Is that a correct statement?

[Lyrebon]

If you have to say, "finally, someone gets it," in anything, it usually means you've done a bad job up to now that you had to petition for that one adverse opinion that a small fraction of the people share. Ergo, the ending sucked.

The article on Kotaku is pretty shallow; he liked the ending because it placed Joker and EDI on the same level? What ever happened to diversity, EDI's attempts to learn what it is that makes organics and synthetics different?

Shepard died so it's automatically good? Hmm, yeah, deep. Edgar Allan Poe should be ashamed.

Mass Effect 3 as one long ending? Let me think about that... no. Completely missing the grievance people have with the ending in that it pulls a frickin' U-turn in the narrative, deflates several long standing themes, throws logic out of the window and is so simplistic as to be laughable.

Modifié par Lyrebon, 11 mai 2012 - 10:20 .

[_aLucidMind_]

Edit- Grammatical Errors

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

While I respect his opinion, him saying "someone finally gets it" can very easily come off as dismissing the complaints of others; those complaints, mind you, seem to be coming from the majority of every place I sign into online. While I am not everywhere online and realize that, it does give me fair reason to say "the majority". It can be taken as him calling those complaining about the ending are too stupid to understand, which is something BioWare PR has a habit of insinuating.

You know as well as I do that, from a business perspective, voicing an opinion or wording it the wrong way can be bad for business. Even more so when it can be interpretted as a back-handed statement that insults the intelligence of your customers. One angry customer can become ten through word of mouth and then 100 in just a span of one day.

Modifié par _aLucidMind_, 11 mai 2012 - 10:22 .

[Wulfram]

Chris Priestly wrote...

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

No he's not.  He has as much right to an opinion as anyone, of course.  But that doesn't mean he's not wrong.

(Of course, he might be right and I might be wrong.  But obviously I think my opinion is right, because if I didn't, it wouldn't be my opinion.  In any case, one of us is more right than the other.)

[gmboy902]

Well if the EC is going to substantially increase the ending then I can expect 4 hours of more game, right?

[Jenonax]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

You are absolutely correct, Mr Priestly.  Thanks for taking the time to step into the debate.

But I echo the sentiments a poster above in that I do not appreciate Mr Webb insinuating that I do not "get" the endings because I do not consider ME3 in its entirety to be the ending of the story.

Statements like that only serve to stir up ill feelings all over again.  I of course realise that Mr Webb's sentiments may not represent other individuals' opinions and that of course he is entitled to express his views.  On the other hand, we're entitled to say we feel slightly insulted by it.

Statements like these that have the Bioware name on it are going to be associated with the company as a whole.  It happens everywhere, to every coporation in the world and, frankly, it doesn't look good.

[MrRag]

BioWare did a terrible job with the ending (of the ending), there's nothing to "get" about that.

[Lyrebon]

Wulfram wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

No he's not.  He has as much right to an opinion as anyone, of course.  But that doesn't mean he's not wrong.

(Of course, he might be right and I might be wrong.  But obviously I think my opinion is right, because if I didn't, it wouldn't be my opinion.  In any case, one of us is more right than the other.)

You need a referee on this?

[chemiclord]

Or... just maybe... fans can stop twisting every word that comes out of a Bioware employee's mouth into an insult to their fans.

[Stalker]

Even if you twist it that way, I don't think that these 34h were a worthy finale at all.

You can't sell me a mediocre game with so many flaws, made with so less heart as a worthy goodbye for 5 years of dedication.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 11 mai 2012 - 10:37 .

[fainmaca]

If mass Effect 3 was one long conclusion to the story established in the previous two, why has it been marketed as 'the best place to start', favouring newcomer players with its method of storytelling (Vega the exposition machine!) and then not only sidelining previous storylines and characters, but completely omitting some?

seeing the creators of the game talking like this just further drives me away from Bioware. And this is considering Bioware gave me my first video gave, the single most powerful piece of entertainment I have ever bought for its sheer impact on me. Seriously, Bioware, quit talking down to your fanbase.

[Drake-Shepard]

TODD9999 wrote...

That guy liked the ending. Okay. I would like to do the same, which is why I thought and hoped the game would incorporate a range of endings. BioWare themselves said that since this was the end of Shepard's story, they didn't have to take care to have the endings wind up in the same place (for the beginning to the next game) and could really cut loose. That did not happen. I wanted a full gradient from "galactic civilization wins and Shepard and squaddies help to rebuild and make a new future" to "the Reapers are unstoppable, everyone is wiped out", and throw in some silly endings in there - the whole thing was, in fact, a weird dream after Shepard's run-in with the prothean beacon on Eden Prime.

The first bit- This was exactly what i thought.... the 'story arc is coming to an end so we are not restricted'. That lead me to believe that there would be many ending variations.

you know, like the bad ending being you just fail, you see a human reaper being built / completed or something. But no matter what you do you always end up with the catalyst and you get the same cutscene in 3 different colours with a lil tweak here and there.

You also don't see your assets in  customised cutscenes. They just remove or add a krogan from one. 

This was their opportunity to go crazy. I could of overlooked the story plotholes and the other gaps if they atleast got that part right. But no. I am left empty

[OblivionDawn]

Xellith wrote...

If nobody can "get" your art - then you failed hard as an artist.

As an artist, I completely agree with this.

Sometimes you need to make art that nobody but you gets.

But when you're a company selling it to millions of people, it isn't that time.

[antares_sublight]

Chris Priestly wrote...

3 - Duane is likely referencing that the person who wrote the article viewed the entire game of ME3 as an ending,
which it is. This is what the team intended, which is the "gets it". Yes, you can discuss how successful we were or whatever, but this was the goal.

And you all know very well that's not what anyone is complaining about. We all understand very easily that the 3rd game in a 3-game series is the last game in the 3-game series. We're not the idiot ATM machines BioWare thinks we are.

Chris Priestly wrote...
4 - Some people like the ending and they are welcome to express that here the same way that those who didn't like it express their opinions.

True.

Chris Priestly wrote...

5 - Just because Duane does or doesn't feel a certain way doesn't mean anything about the Extended Cut.

I disagree, it's a clear narrative that you and BioWare believe you've done everything correctly and beautifully and it's just art that the stupid players didn't get. It's a clear sign that the Extended Cut might very well just be the same finale slowed down so we can all uuuunnnnndeeeeerrrrsssssssssstaaaaannnnnnnddddd it.

[Slappy Ya Face]

Duane Webb doesn't seem to get it.

[Zix13]

A whole game is not an "ending".
You can bring closure to various plots, but that doesn't make the finale irrelevant. You can't say "The ending wasn't important because the whole game was an ending". No. The game still has an ending, a finale. Regardless of what plotlines were tied up earlier, it all needs to come together for the finale. That's what Bioware failed to do, along with the poor implementation and variety of other narrative problems. It's not a matter of "getting it": the last installment in a trilogy simply cannot be considered an ending in the sense that is used here.

Also, the article is so stupid I have a hard time taking it seriously. "Mass Effect 2 was Shepard's triumph, her second gathering of friends to fight against the odds. Mass Effect 3 seemed, instead, to be all goodbyes, one long ending." Yes, because the central conflict of the series was the battle with the collectors, not the war with the Reapers. I mean, really? Did we play the same games?