626 réponses à ce sujet

[_aLucidMind_]

chemiclord wrote...

Or... just maybe... fans can stop twisting every word that comes out of a Bioware employee's mouth into an insult to their fans.

If I have a habit of making personal insults or physically assaulting everyone and anyone who angers me, people will automatically assume that I will do that even long after it is obvious that I am not like that anymore. The reason why people will assume I will still attack them is because of reputation.

BioWare PR has been gaining a reputation of calling anyone saying the ending is bad or makes no sense as being too stupid to understand it. It also doesn't help that the only things they pay attention to are sycophantic articles and fans while ignoring any articles and fans with valid complaints. If people are merely twisting their words and taking them the wrong way, BioWare PR are the ones who gave us this impression of them and, if they want people to stop, they need to stop putting out statements that just radiate arrogance and ignorance.

Modifié par _aLucidMind_, 11 mai 2012 - 10:37 .

[Mcfly616]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

And that's the problem with the ending Mr. Priestly.....we don't want to use our imaginations to make our ending.....we want our choices and decisions to shape the outcome and have some bearing on who lives and dies amongst our squad and allies....which is also the problem with the EC(if its what you say it is:nothing changed, just clarifying a pile of incoherent crap that us idiots couldn't understand)

[Iakus]

There's many kinds of "goodbyes"

There's the goobye of a completed task, like finishing a project. There's the goodbye of taking leave of a party, or a vacation ending. These are all satisfactory endings. The journey has come to an end, the job is well-done, and there's a promise that maybe someday you'll want to go back and visit it again.

The "goodbye" we got, however, was that of a funeral. A coffin being lowered into a grave. It's sad, depressing, something you never want to experience again. And worst of all there's that nagging feeling that the death was for nothing.

Made all the worse by the rest of the game which seemd far more life-affirming. We, as Shepard, get to see everything Shepard's fighting for. Friends, people, worlds, all life in the galaxy in all its diversity. Banding together against a common threat.

And that's what worries me about EC. Since it's not changing anything that actually took place, it's unlikely the tone will either. So all we'll have is a longer funeral to sit through.

[Agent B406]

Dude, Priestly. Just a second ago you were getting upset because people were giving you their opinions on the endings instead of "what they expected." I know you didn't exactly mean for it to appear as if you only allow defense of your employee's opinions and that "we've already had our say," but dammit, it's hard not to see it that way.

[Cant Planet]

Yeah, my sympathies to the team. It must be exhausting to have us as a fanbase when we're all so unbearably stupid.

[fade2black.1337]

Of course! Now my eyes are open!
The only game in Mass Effect trilogy was ME2! Mass Effect 1 and 3 were respectively the Intro and the Ending! It was so simple! How didn't I get it by myself!?

/sarcasm

[_aLucidMind_]

Who here is thinking that, due to BioWare's arrogance and "you're too stupid to understand" stance, BioWare has lost you as a customer for good? I know I am; the most they can expect from me at this point is hearing my feedback on a game they made that I bought used around $15-$20 during GameStop's B2G1 sales.

[Apollo-XL5]

Well they have called it the extended ending. Lets focus on that word "EXTENDED" which means they are adding more to the ending which we already have seen. Also with them bringing back the entire VO cast for it (including Meer and Hale, I have read that some where on the net), would mean to me that this will show us what happens to shepard and everyone else depending on our choices prior to the ending.

PS. Since kaidan and ashely voice actors and garrus are back in the studio, its safe to assume that liara, tali, wrex and everyone else is back too. Just please also add Harbinger to add some real closure to the reapers.

[CrazyBirdman]

I also felt that Mass Effect 3 was in itself a worthy ending to Shepards story and the last 5 minutes of the game took nathing away from it for. Problem is, I will never convince any of the ending haters of that position(it is very reasonable to dislike the ending) but I will never be conviced by haters that I have do NOT enjoy the entire game. You will hardly ever change intuitive feelings with reason.
The feeling is the important part when playing a game and I and the author of the article felt this way regardless of discussion afterwards.
But he choose synthesis and likes it....that makes his point of course less valuable, I feel diffrent!
.
.
.
Yeah, I do admit it is hard to tolerate someones position you just cannot understand but you can try!

[Kyrick]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

This, right here, is why intellectual and honest debate is anathema in today's society.  "Everybody is right, everybody has a right to their own opinion, nobody's opinion is wrong."

You are incorrect.  When an opinion is based on rubbish reasoning, faulty understanding of an issue or the knowledge behind an issue, then an opinion can ABSOLUTELY be wrong.

If your company has a new defense of it's shoddily produced third chapter of, "It's ALL the ending" then I was lied to regarding what the game actually was.  I was promised a narrative, not one thirty hour long denoument.

This is an even worse line of defense than "It is 'art' and you have to be artistic to get it and understand the ending."  So a month ago, the game had an ending that was 'art'.  Now the whole game is apparently the ending have we all given up on saying that only the previously referenced 'ending' was art?

[Lopez23]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

i have to say i agree with you everyone is entitled to their own opinion because we're all human.......and while a good amount of people have a less than happy (trying to be very gentle/generous) opinion of the likes of Hudson, Walters, Gamble i for one can think that they are entitled to make mistakes and while i want to rip out my hair at the logic behind their statements and what they have done regarding ME3 and pre release statements (you know what im talking about "Its not like A,B,C" or "You see all your choice play out even the rachni play a role in the game and even the final battle" sorry if its not word for word with the second quote) but i remember that without Hudson, we wouldnt have Mass Effect while he screwed up in a way and has since been in hiding i remember that fact and in a way feel bad for him, Walters....walters wrote great characters and really made some of them come to life and i love some of those guys(Garrus) but i saw the story in terms of how it plays in the overall story line etc start to decline once Drew sort of started to step down as the lead writer and split it with Walters, but while i probobly wont forgive him for certain things (*cough* endings *cough*) i can respect him for what he has given us prior like Garrus or contributed to honestly my favorite in terms of overall gameplay, characters, sort of the story, game in the series ME2( though my favorite is ME cause of the story and the squad and just to say this but Wrex, Shepard), Gamble never heard much of him probobly have but dont remember before Mass Effect 3 went into production but his comments on things have really put him in a bad light as well as Bioware cause anyone from Bioware represents Bioware especially when they are official statements. I guess though in a way with all of this controversy i do feel bad somewhat because he no matter what he says is shot down almost imediatly by fans from both sides of the court.........I lovED Bioware but my faith in them to listen to the fans has decreased drasticly especially with the Ending controversy.....and the LACK OF CHOICES MAKING AN IMPACT ON THE ENDING but still Bioware it is all up to you now, whatever you do in the next few months will either save you or break you....good luck guys also glad you have the IM as your picture again just didnt feel the same........

Modifié par Lopez23, 11 mai 2012 - 10:55 .

[Mass effect 2 forever]

OP, thats very condescending, if not insulting for somebody to accuse their customer base of 'not getting it'. As somebody else said earlier, you fail as an artist if you can't get the message of your art into peoples minds; it should be plain, obvious and be in keeping with the wider vision. 

[Lyrebon]

antares_sublight wrote...

I disagree, it's a clear narrative that you and BioWare believe you've done everything correctly and beautifully and it's just art that the stupid players didn't get. It's a clear sign that the Extended Cut might very well just be the same finale slowed down so we can all uuuunnnnndeeeeerrrrsssssssssstaaaaannnnnnnddddd it.

My bet's on a narrative shouting, slowly, enunciating every syllable, what the ending meant, polishing it off with, "... you f****** morons!"

[Apollo-XL5]

Cant Planet wrote...

Yeah, my sympathies to the team. It must be exhausting to have us as a fanbase when we're all so unbearably stupid.

Well with attitudes like that, its no wonder the BW staff dont want to speak to us.  Maybe its time to stop spitting your dummies out and start talking like adults.  Maybe then BW might want to have a civilised, healthy disscussion about the work they have created.  But just insulting them will not get us anywhere.
Please BW dont think that all of us fans are like this.  Because I have problems with the ending (the music "an end once and for all" not being one of them.)  But unlike others on this forum, I dont allow it to stop my enjoyment of the ME trilogy, especially since you will be bringing out the EE (for free I might add) which should wrap up alot (and i do mean alot) of very loose ends.

[Filby08]

Garlador wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

Perhaps, but I absolutely do not appreciate being told that I "do not get" the ending. I've played every game multiple times, bought every comic tie-in, purchased every DLC, own every collector's edition, got every single achievement, and know the codex lore like the back of my hand.

I get it. And I'm insulted someone from Bioware would bluntly say "no, you didn't."

To quote Roger Ebert, "if you have to ask what it symbolizes, it didn't." That is the epitome of FAILED ART.

Try all you want, make mistakes if you want, but as a creator and artist, one should have the humility to acknowledge one's failures and not cling to every drivel of praise to dismiss universal disdain and logical criticism.

I know it's soul crushing to have so many people hate, reject, and analyze where Mass Effect 3 dropped the ball so hard and upset so many fans, but it's also the time to swallow some humble pie and accept that if so many people "did not get it", then maybe the problem wasn't with US, the paying customers, it was with those creating it in the first place.

I have been trying to put into words how I feel about this whole debacle, but this nice gentleman went ahead and did it for me.

[Bomma72]

Ok the whole game is an ending if you like and the end of that "ending" is crap.

[Zix13]

Filby08 wrote...

Garlador wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

Perhaps, but I absolutely do not appreciate being told that I "do not get" the ending. I've played every game multiple times, bought every comic tie-in, purchased every DLC, own every collector's edition, got every single achievement, and know the codex lore like the back of my hand.

I get it. And I'm insulted someone from Bioware would bluntly say "no, you didn't."

To quote Roger Ebert, "if you have to ask what it symbolizes, it didn't." That is the epitome of FAILED ART.

Try all you want, make mistakes if you want, but as a creator and artist, one should have the humility to acknowledge one's failures and not cling to every drivel of praise to dismiss universal disdain and logical criticism.

I know it's soul crushing to have so many people hate, reject, and analyze where Mass Effect 3 dropped the ball so hard and upset so many fans, but it's also the time to swallow some humble pie and accept that if so many people "did not get it", then maybe the problem wasn't with US, the paying customers, it was with those creating it in the first place.

I have been trying to put into words how I feel about this whole debacle, but this nice gentleman went ahead and did it for me.

Agreed. 

[Cant Planet]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Cant Planet wrote...

Yeah, my sympathies to the team. It must be exhausting to have us as a fanbase when we're all so unbearably stupid.

Well with attitudes like that, its no wonder the BW staff dont want to speak to us.  Maybe its time to stop spitting your dummies out and start talking like adults.  Maybe then BW might want to have a civilised, healthy disscussion about the work they have created.  But just insulting them will not get us anywhere.
Please BW dont think that all of us fans are like this.  Because I have problems with the ending (the music "an end once and for all" not being one of them.)  But unlike others on this forum, I dont allow it to stop my enjoyment of the ME trilogy, especially since you will be bringing out the EE (for free I might add) which should wrap up alot (and i do mean alot) of very loose ends.

I didn't allow the ending to stop my enjoyment of the game, anymore than I allow a headcold I've caught to make me sneeze.

Clearly I need to mature.

[nicethugbert]

Queens of The Stone Age - Long Slow Goodbye

The Howls - Long Slow Goodbye

[_aLucidMind_]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Cant Planet wrote...

Yeah, my sympathies to the team. It must be exhausting to have us as a fanbase when we're all so unbearably stupid.

Well with attitudes like that, its no wonder the BW staff dont want to speak to us.  Maybe its time to stop spitting your dummies out and start talking like adults.  Maybe then BW might want to have a civilised, healthy disscussion about the work they have created.  But just insulting them will not get us anywhere.

BioWare PR has been making it a point to call anyone and everyone who didn't like the ending "too stupid to understand it". Cant Planet's attitude is a reaction to their statements; if they can't handle their customers being pissy for being called idiots, then maybe they should stop calling their customers idiots. While there are forum-goers who are being uncivilized little pricks, BioWare has proven on multiple occassions that they are knowhere near above doing the exact same thing but to everyone rather than just those being asses towards them.

Modifié par _aLucidMind_, 11 mai 2012 - 11:06 .

[Nayt Navare]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, stepping in here a second

1 - Duane is entitled to his opinion, just like you all are entitled to yours
2 - So is the writer of the article
3 - Duane is likely referencing that the person who wrote the article viewed the entire game of ME3 as an ending, which it is. This is what the team intended, which is the "gets it". Yes, you can discuss how successful we were or whatever, but this was the goal.
4 - Some people like the ending and they are welcome to express that here the same way that those who didn't like it express their opinions.
5 - Just because Duane does or doesn't feel a certain way doesn't mean anything about the Extended Cut.

I believe the issue may be that the wording denotes (NOT SAYS, BUT IMPLIES, INTEDNED OR NOT) that those who do not are subpar or less intelligent.

They was I personally see it; the whole game ends the saga.  When you say choices matter, they do throughout the game.  But to put it in that perspective, objectively, it is my opinion that your epilogue "sucks," for an honest to God lack of a better term.

Think of it this way; Mass Effect 3 is Return of the Jedi, if the movie ends right when Palpatine falls down the chamber.  Yeah, the Empire gets defeated, and Vader finds a bit of redemption.  Great.  We get the ending to the main story; RoTJ is a long ending to the series.  But there is no closure.  

Do Luke and Vader find a chance to make peace?  Maybe.  Does Lando get out of the Death Star II's explosion?  Could be.  Do Han and Leia cement their relationship?  I think so, but I don't know for sure.  How is the galazy?  Is it celebrating, or mourning?  Depends on your thoughts, I guess.

You gave us REPEATED elements of a hopeful future.  You told us, through dialogue and choices, what our ending, what our epilogue was that we were workinng towards.  Little blue babies.  Royalties with Garrus.  Mourning Thane.  Building a house on Rannoch.  Finding Miranda.  Um... "laying" Jack.  These were put to us, a reward to end our time.  Did we get that?  Did we find out if Khalee said goodbye to Anderson?  Did our decision help, or hinder?  We are left with a giant question mark on NUMEROUS points.  As amazing a good-bye and ending the rest of the game is, respectively, you forget the denouement, the epilogue, arguably, even, the fall in action.

It is because of this I do not feel like Mass Effect, the series, has ended for me, but rather, like someone has pressed "pause" and I am stuck waiting to find out what happened.  I cannot move on from the story, as my story has not ended.

[Soulstice88]

Garlador wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

But it reflects everything you do Mr. Priestly.

One person represents a company in the minds of people, especially someone who is as high up as he is.

And he is every bit as right in his opinion as you are in yours.

Perhaps, but I absolutely do not appreciate being told that I "do not get" the ending. I've played every game multiple times, bought every comic tie-in, purchased every DLC, own every collector's edition, got every single achievement, and know the codex lore like the back of my hand.

I get it. And I'm insulted someone from Bioware would bluntly say "no, you didn't."

To quote Roger Ebert, "if you have to ask what it symbolizes, it didn't." That is the epitome of FAILED ART.

Try all you want, make mistakes if you want, but as a creator and artist, one should have the humility to acknowledge one's failures and not cling to every drivel of praise to dismiss universal disdain and logical criticism.

I know it's soul crushing to have so many people hate, reject, and analyze where Mass Effect 3 dropped the ball so hard and upset so many fans, but it's also the time to swallow some humble pie and accept that if so many people "did not get it", then maybe the problem wasn't with US, the paying customers, it was with those creating it in the first place.

Agreed, yet again.

[chemiclord]

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

BioWare PR has been making it a point to call anyone and everyone who didn't like the ending "too stupid to understand it". Cant Planet's attitude is a reaction to their statements; if they can't handle their customers being pissy for being called idiots, then maybe they should stop calling their customers idiots.

Except... they NEVER said that.  At ANY point.

Modifié par chemiclord, 11 mai 2012 - 11:11 .

[BABEik52092]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, stepping in here a second

1 - Duane is entitled to his opinion, just like you all are entitled to yours
2 - So is the writer of the article
3 - Duane is likely referencing that the person who wrote the article viewed the entire game of ME3 as an ending, which it is. This is what the team intended, which is the "gets it". Yes, you can discuss how successful we were or whatever, but this was the goal.
4 - Some people like the ending and they are welcome to express that here the same way that those who didn't like it express their opinions.
5 - Just because Duane does or doesn't feel a certain way doesn't mean anything about the Extended Cut.

With all due respect Mr. Priestly,

Yes, I agree that ME3 was the "end" of this current Mass Effect trilogy. And for the most part, it was very good. However, for THE ACTUAL ENDING of Mass Effect 3 and this trilogy, we wanted to see how our choices over 3 games and 5 years effected how our character's galatic civilization unfolded after the Reaper conflict. We wanted to see how our individual stance on what is right and wrong for our character and the galaxy effected the lives of not only the galaxy, but the crew and friends we talked to for dozens of hours.

Instead, a vast majority of players were handed 3 options that all violated their Shepard's moral values. We didn't see how our Shepard's choices changed galatic civilization. In fact, one could argue that the Stargazer scene that everyone got means that no ones choices affected the galaxy at all as the scene is the same in all 3 endings. And finally, we didn't feel like heroes like we did at the end of both Mass Effect 1 and 2.

Modifié par BABEik52092, 11 mai 2012 - 11:18 .

[zovoes]

do the people at bioware really hold the people that don't like the ending in that much contempt? is that really how they view us?

Modifié par zovoes, 11 mai 2012 - 11:13 .