44 réponses à ce sujet

[SushiSquid]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Of course no one defended shapeshifter, since you ordered us not to.  And since you ARE the 'Keeper of All Knowledge of DA:O and the Way it is SUPPOSED to Be' you are, of course, completely correct in everything you say.  If only those idiot devs had hired you to design the game the RIGHT way instead of the stupid way they did.

Above is sarcasm, btw.  I'm not going to argue your points because they're your opinions.  And hey, I actually agree with some of them.  What I DON'T agree with is your applied assertion that YOU and ONLY YOU are right, and that people who disagree shouldn't even bother responding since you're right, and they're wrong.  Please, remember that just because you have an opinion does NOT make it true for everyone. 

 Let's take shapeshifting; someone wrote a post a few weeks ago detailing how they used it, and for them it was very effective.  Basically, he went into combat already shifted, used the special skills, then transformed back to Morigan and cast spells.  I tried it that way, pretty effective.  People have different playstyles then you do after all.  They may have found a way to get the most out of a skill you may find worthless.

There is no right or wrong way to play the game, or to utilize a skill.  The important thing to remember is that this is a game, and games are played to have fun.  Now, having discussions about HOW to utilize skills, or how to make them more effective can be fun.  But starting a 'discussion' by stating your opinion as fact, and that contrary opinions are not worth even bringing up...well, not quite as fun.

This was constructive.  You presumed arrogance where I did not intend to display any, but you were constructive in arguing for Shapeshifter.  I do not personally see a use for the ability to make my Mage weaker, but here you provide an example of using it in a way that would benefit the Mage.  Thank you for this; it's not something I considered.  Shapeshifter's fun-factor is also not something I really considered because I didn't personally find it fun.  If other people enjoy it, I'd like to hear about that and specifically what about it they enjoyed.

Also, upon re-reading my original post, my wording was too definitive.  I do come off a bit like I really don't want to hear other opinions even while asking for them.  I've changed this now.  Any further arguing is hopefully unecessary.  I'm willing to forget it all if you're willing to forgive that my original post really did seem a bit haughty at first.  I did not intend this and I apologize, so let's please keep to the topic now.

Modifié par SushiSquid, 09 décembre 2009 - 06:15 .

[Zejoph]

kelsjet wrote...

SushiSquid wrote...
And Kelsjet, don't be a jackass. 

Are you seriously this retarded?

Me telling you to stop QQing and make the changes yourself is me being a "jackass"?

Such a classic child metality. It really is quite telling when you lead with "These are my opinions, feel free to discuss these opinions but if you disagree with what I am saying you are a jackass so fuk off!"

But at the end of the day, even all this is totally irrelevant. Again, this is NOT a MMO. You are not paying $x a month to get Bioware to 'fix' the game for you as you see fit.

Going out there, demanding that Bioware 'fix these retarded specializations" which, according to you are "quick and easy" fixes when you obviously have absolutely no idea what development is actually about makes you the jackass my friend, not me.

A total jackass to the guys who actually do work on DA:O.

How much blatant disrespect for Bioware developers can one person seriously contain? And you aren't even paying them for the patches!! For **** sake man, get off your high horse and stop being a douche who 'claims' to know it all when you have absolutely no idea.


The sense of entitlement that exist with some people on these forums is absolutely sickening. Total disregard for the people who actually spend years of their life creating something which you pay $40 for, only to have you come to their forums and p!ss all over their effort. Sh!t all over their skills and go around blasting how "quick and easy" everything is.

I really do hope you are all kids, because I shudder at the thought that you are adults who act like this.

I really wish you were just a troll.

Would you rather we not try to tell the developers what we think? If I made a painting for some and some parts of it were really good, but there were a few parts of it that were ****e, I'd want the patron to tell me which parts are ****e and how they think I could make them better.

[Wolfva2]

Bah Sushi, you posted while I was posting.  Yeah, I figured you didn't intend your wording to sound like it did.  Heck, I find myself coming across as an arogant know it all all the time .  Sometimes it's hard to catch. 

I agree shapeshifting should be instantaneous.  Look at the cinematic trailer!  Morigan turning into a spider mid leap was awesome!  Morigan standing still waving her arms like an idiot for several seconds....not quite so awesome.  It'd definately make the class more interesting to play I think.

Modifié par Wolfva2, 09 décembre 2009 - 06:18 .

[DaeFaron]

Well, the one guy is telling the OP to go and fix it himself with the toolset. However, the OP (I checked his games listed as well before he said it) has said he is playing the 360 version. This would mean one cannot use the toolset to fix the problem right? I would think so but apparently not.

[MerinTB]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Merin, I think the vitriol some aimed at the OP was, in large part, due to the arrogance of his initial post. Just look at his first paragraph where he states his opinion as fact, demands that people accept it as fact, and then tells people not to disagree with him. I'm pretty sure he didn't intend for it to come out that way; he has a thesis and he stated it dynamicaly. But also arrogantly. That can definately put some people on edge. Of course, some of the vitriol is also do to some people just being jerks who like fighting in forums .

Bah Sushi, you posted while I was posting.  Yeah, I figured you didn't intend your wording to sound like it did.  Heck, I find myself coming across as an arogant know it all all the time  .  Sometimes it's hard to catch.

I saw some of that (for example, I still think the word "suck" in the thread title is too much bait for people to want to come in and defend the game) and I did think some word choices were a bit heavy-handed in making it seem that the OP's opinions were fact.

But contextually, overall, I read that he was really trying to be constructive and seemed, overall, to want to have a discussion about his ideas and observations.  I can forgive the shortcomings of a mostly well written critique, especially considering how bad most critiques on these forums are written.

This, of course, doesn't mean I agree with everything the OP said - far from - but I think his ideas are worth considering.

[Mordaedil]

Normally I think balance threads are kinda dumb, but you do bring up some very good points that have nothing to really do with balance, but with intention of design being off the board, making certain abilities less powerful than intended. I agree on much everything, though I didn't play with the reaver myself, but I have tried using Death Magic and Death Syphon, and neither do anything worthwhile for me, so I basically forget about them.
Your suggestions would actually make the abilities worthwhile to pick up and very valuable indeed.
Also, to the thread, I suggest you just address valid complaints or suggestions and ignore outright flamers like kelsjet entirely. It will only bog down your thread and remove the wonderful points you make.

[SushiSquid]

I've become convinced some of these things are just not working as intended. I'm already pretty sure that Song of Valor has a misplaced decimal, but perhaps the same thing happened to some other powers. Holy Smite is a high stamina level 15 tier 4 talent. I just can't believe it was intended to only do an extra 2 damage to Mages.

[Staylost]

Great post. I like your ideas and most of your changes.



It is clear that the worst specializations are Shapeshifter & Templar. I enjoy playing both of these specialization and like them, but they don't add up with the others. Reaver is weaker, but not as much as the others. It is only efficient as a tank specialization.



Wolfva2, are you OK? It wasn't that arrogant. I realize it could've been better, but is something else bothering you?



I think Kelsjet needs to get tossed in a lake, too.

[Astorax]

Kelsjet, take a break. You're out of line.



SushiSquid your reaction to him was also out of line.



If you have a problem with another poster, report it to me or another mod and we'll take care of it. Do not flame war. It's unacceptable.



While yes, there's a toolkit, not everyone is saavy enough to use it. Besides which, making Bioware aware of what people perceive to be imbalances is perfectly valid...while it is not an MMO, it is not a closed development game as you suggest, since they JUST released a patch which changed balance of some spells.

[SushiSquid]

Can we just talk about the specializations?

[ivy21jaw]

I haven't fiddled too much with specializations.  I typically pick which one sounds interesting as far as depth of character and the stat bonuses.  Templar - I enjoy.  That and champion seem to be the best.  The reaver constantly losing health doesn't seem like such a good deal when he doesn't seem to add enough additional damage to balance (haven't played it yet thought).

Mage - arcane warrior is very powerful.  I love this specialization.  Healer is great & balanced; Blood mage seems great too - love the trade off since health is so much more important to a mage.

Thief class as a whole is frustrating unless you choose archery and stay in the back.  So, specializations frustrate as well.  My main thought is the damage avoidance simply doesn't happen once you get to difficult enemies, so the thief class and thus specializations seem pointless unless you simply love playing a thief.  That being said, it seems the bard specialization doesn't really do all that much good.  Duelist and Ranger seem the most advantageous ones.

[GianluOwNs]

Templar/Champion is the best option

[Kimberly Shaw]

My first beef with specializations is that it has so little impact on the game story. There are no specialization specific quests, which is lacking. There seems to be VERY few dialogue choices where you can talk about whatever spec you choose to be (I can think of one, but it makes little sense considering some other factors...but can't go into it because of spoilers).



That said, it was a very neat idea, I just wish they had done a better job of implementing them and tried a bit harder to make the talents more in line with the idea of the spec (and yes, roughly equal in situational value).



Shapeshifter, Templar and Reaver are all in need of some work, and I agree with the OP assessments.



One curious spec, to me, is the Ranger option. To limit the idea of a ranger into 3 "summon animal" options and nothing else is kind of a blow to the lore of Rangers. I would have liked to see the Ranger class have a pet talent (wolf) and then other talents more in line of what rangers are. Not 3 pet talents and one buff that pet talent...are they mages in Everquest or rangers? Not sure why more people don't care about that.

[SushiSquid]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...
My first beef with specializations is that it has so little impact on the game story. There are no specialization specific quests, which is lacking. There seems to be VERY few dialogue choices where you can talk about whatever spec you choose to be (I can think of one, but it makes little sense considering some other factors...but can't go into it because of spoilers).

I've heard other people mention this and I agree with it.  Unfortunately this isn't something that would be simple at all to patch in, so specializations are stuck forever having no effect on the story and are instead only worth choosing based on their effects.  If they did in some have story effects, even weaker specializations would still be useful for the story.  It would have been great if enemy Mages feared a Templar, if everyone feared a Blood Mage or Reaver, or if you could have some side options involving stealth when you're an Assassin or a Shapeshifter.  Even little differences like the dialogue differences among the races would have been welcome.  As it stands, you're treated as either a Mage or not-a-Mage.  Even Warrior and Rogue are treated the same, so having specializations added to the story to differentiate them would have been welcome, but isn't expected.

[DaeFaron]

The only problem being, since you never took vows to become a templar, unless you wore the templar or knight-commander armor they wouldn't know you are a templar.

[AntiChri5]

I have a problem with Blood Mage and Shape Shifter and wonderfully enough, its the same problem! With shapeshifter the final talent gives you access to the corrupted forms. But im a greay warden the taint is already in my blood it should have been different and would have been more special for the PC if shapeshifter to get those forms automatically. Blood mages use their blood for spells shouldnt the blood of a grey warden have a slightly different/more special effect?

[AntiChri5]

Reaver: Injuries apply a bonus to damage based on the penalty they give you. this would make falling in battle not always a bad thing and something theyare tryig to achieve under controlled circumstances. It is a bit odd, i will admit but it could certainly make being a reaver significantly different, which is what i want from a specialization.

[Marionetten]

I'd like to see blood control and blood sacrifice actually work together. That would make them both incredibly useful and add a whole lot more evil to the specialization. As it stands the only worthwhile blood magic spell is blood wound.

[Thanatos45]

For shapeshifter, take a look at the various mods that have been released. I don't really know how good they are (although many people seem to be positive) because I've just began a new run with a shapeshifter-to-be but they add tons of new shapes.

ivy21jaw wrote...

Thief class as a whole is frustrating
unless you choose archery and stay in the back.  So, specializations
frustrate as well.  My main thought is the damage avoidance simply
doesn't happen once you get to difficult enemies, so the thief class
and thus specializations seem pointless unless you simply love playing
a thief.  That being said, it seems the bard specialization doesn't
really do all that much good.  Duelist and Ranger seem the most
advantageous ones.

I think you're using them the wrong way.
Rogues do not fight like warriors, the only rogue that should ever even
consider a frontal attack should be a duelist with a massive defense
rating. The point with rogues is to have them deal their damage without
getting counterattacked. Flank. Backstab. Disable your opponent with
stuff like dirty fighting, riposte and various poisons. Use combat
stealth when you see too many enemies turning their attention to you.
Works great for me, rogues can be very good damage dealers like this

Modifié par Thanatos45, 11 décembre 2009 - 12:37 .