63 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

Yeah, my conclusion about Duncan was intended to elicit a response. Duncan strikes me as a man who doesn't deal in uncertainties. He'd not agree with it at all, and if Morrigan somehow pulled it off anyway he'd hunt her down and kill her.

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 décembre 2009 - 09:54 .

[Alex Savchovsky]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

But, on the other hand, the ritual ensures that the Old God Soul isn't destroyed, as it should've been. Which is why I think that Duncan wouldn't approve of the ritual at all.

The Archdemon is destroyed, the Old God is not. It's a win-win situation.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

I see it this way. When an archdemon rises, the Elder Grey Wardens decide among themselves who dies because they are the Elder Wardens. Not doing the ritual weakens the overall Warden population because you are just budding with potential. If you can be spared to devote thirty years to the fight, then that is better than sacrificing a recruit.



So yes all Grey Wardens are going to die but that doesn't make them completely expendable. They have worth in living. It is worth it to have Morrigan in the last battle as well as keeping the two strongest Wardens in the land safe.



However, if Loghain is there, sure. Sacrifice him. He needs to regain his honor and is a good deal past his prime anyway. The taint wouldn't spare him for long at all. Alistair and the PC have many years to contribute, no reason to waste that.



In death, sacrifice. Nothing there says pointless sacrifice. Also note that death is the last part of that slogan. Victory comes first.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

But, on the other hand, the ritual ensures that the Old God Soul isn't destroyed, as it should've been. Which is why I think that Duncan wouldn't approve of the ritual at all.

The Archdemon is destroyed, the Old God is not. It's a win-win situation.

True or not, the Old Gods are considered evil by society at large. But more importantly from a Grey Warden perspective, what's preventing the soul of the Old God to be corrupted by darkspawn again, sparking another Blight?

Presumably nothing.

[Apophis2412]

PinkShira wrote...

I do believe that Duncan would do ANYTHING to stop the blight. Now would he do anything to save Alistair? I really got the feeling that he cared for him and was coddling him. So maybe if he knew it was going to save Alistair he'd be fine with it.

Does he really care for Alistair or does he treat him differently because he is the son of Maric.
Anyway I doubt Duncan would agree with the ritual to just save one man.

[Apophis2412]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

But, on the other hand, the ritual ensures that the Old God Soul isn't destroyed, as it should've been. Which is why I think that Duncan wouldn't approve of the ritual at all.

The Archdemon is destroyed, the Old God is not. It's a win-win situation.

True or not, the Old Gods are considered evil by society at large. But more importantly from a Grey Warden perspective, what's preventing the soul of the Old God to be corrupted by darkspawn again, sparking another Blight?

Presumably nothing.

Or what do the Grey Wardens gain by rescuing an Old God?

[Alex Savchovsky]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

True or not, the Old Gods are considered evil by society at large. But more importantly from a Grey Warden perspective, what's preventing the soul of the Old God to be corrupted by darkspawn again, sparking another Blight?

Presumably nothing.

A more accurate statement would be "the Old Gods are considered evil by the Chantry". But why should I take their word for this? It's the same organization that barely tolerates mages, this way proving that it's views are narrow-minded and ossified. I say, screw the Chantry. If I can free an Old God without having him leading a darkspawn horde, I will.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
The Archdemon is destroyed, the Old God is not. It's a win-win situation.

Old God = Archdemon. Or did you somehow miss that?

[Alex Savchovsky]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
The Archdemon is destroyed, the Old God is not. It's a win-win situation.

Old God = Archdemon. Or did you somehow miss that?

You should pay more attention to the game.
Archdemon = corrupted Old God.

[Apophis2412]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

True or not, the Old Gods are considered evil by society at large. But more importantly from a Grey Warden perspective, what's preventing the soul of the Old God to be corrupted by darkspawn again, sparking another Blight?

Presumably nothing.

A more accurate statement would be "the Old Gods are considered evil by the Chantry". But why should I take their word for this? It's the same organization that barely tolerates mages, this way proving that it's views are narrow-minded and ossified. I say, screw the Chantry. If I can free an Old God without having him leading a darkspawn horde, I will.

It's a bit bad for the Grey Wardens' reputation when they are going about saving 'evil' creatures.

[marshalleck]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
The Archdemon is destroyed, the Old God is not. It's a win-win situation.

Old God = Archdemon. Or did you somehow miss that?

Your troll-fu is weak. Go back and play the game.

[GmanFresh]

no he would be agianst it

[marshalleck]

Apophis2412 wrote...

It's a bit bad for the Grey Wardens' reputation when they are going about saving 'evil' creatures.

If it weren't for my Grey Warden, Ferelden would be a smoking hole in the ground. The opinion of Fereldans is irrelevant.

[Apophis2412]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
The Archdemon is destroyed, the Old God is not. It's a win-win situation.

Old God = Archdemon. Or did you somehow miss that?

You should pay more attention to the game.
Archdemon = corrupted Old God.

And what is preventing the Old God from becoming corrupted again?


EDIT: Interesting thought: What would happen if you have an Old God go through the Joining ritual?

[Alarna]

Afaik the old gods are corrupted and the Maker banned them. When the darkspawn finds one of them, this old corrupted god is an archdemon.

So why should I believe that this old god soul isn't corrupted any more if it is new born in a child?



I think it is really dangerous to free a corrupted soul of a god. Gods are mighty.

[Alex Savchovsky]

Apophis2412 wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

True or not, the Old Gods are considered evil by society at large. But more importantly from a Grey Warden perspective, what's preventing the soul of the Old God to be corrupted by darkspawn again, sparking another Blight?

Presumably nothing.

A more accurate statement would be "the Old Gods are considered evil by the Chantry". But why should I take their word for this? It's the same organization that barely tolerates mages, this way proving that it's views are narrow-minded and ossified. I say, screw the Chantry. If I can free an Old God without having him leading a darkspawn horde, I will.

It's a bit bad for the Grey Wardens' reputation when they are going about saving 'evil' creatures.

Ah, you should look at the bigger picture. Once the Chantry lies are exposed and the Old Gods are back on the world, the Gray Wardens will be regarded as those who saved both humanity AND the gods. The darkspawn will finally be defeated and with the mages free from the superstitious fears of the ignorant, this will start a real golden age for the people.


P.S.
About the "being corrupted again" question - the fact that the Old God is awake and in possession of his powers, in the first place. The lore says they are sleeping underground imprisoned, and that they are corrupted when the darkspawn reach them. Once freed, the Old God will be neither sleeping nor imprisoned.

Modifié par Alex Savchovsky, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:32 .

[marshalleck]

Alarna wrote...

Afaik the old gods are corrupted and the Maker banned them. When the darkspawn finds one of them, this old corrupted god is an archdemon.
So why should I believe that this old god soul isn't corrupted any more if it is new born in a child?

I think it is really dangerous to free a corrupted soul of a god. Gods are mighty.

The answer to these questions come down to how much you believe Morrigan--but she does directly address this issue.

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:30 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

marshalleck wrote...

Alarna wrote...

Afaik the old gods are corrupted and the Maker banned them. When the darkspawn finds one of them, this old corrupted god is an archdemon.
So why should I believe that this old god soul isn't corrupted any more if it is new born in a child?

I think it is really dangerous to free a corrupted soul of a god. Gods are mighty.

The answer to these questions come down to how much you believe Morrigan--but she does directly address this issue.

And if you believe Morrigan and take her words at face value, you're a certifiable retard.

[marshalleck]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Alarna wrote...

Afaik the old gods are corrupted and the Maker banned them. When the darkspawn finds one of them, this old corrupted god is an archdemon.
So why should I believe that this old god soul isn't corrupted any more if it is new born in a child?

I think it is really dangerous to free a corrupted soul of a god. Gods are mighty.

The answer to these questions come down to how much you believe Morrigan--but she does directly address this issue.

And if you believe Morrigan and take her words at face value, you're a certifiable retard.

That's not very nice.

It was an easy choice for my Mage to make. Old God, responsible for originally teaching magic to Thedosians, reincarnated in the world? Yes please. If Morrigan had told me her plan the first day in the swamp I would have been on board for that. No need for deception.

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:36 .

[Apophis2412]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

True or not, the Old Gods are considered evil by society at large. But more importantly from a Grey Warden perspective, what's preventing the soul of the Old God to be corrupted by darkspawn again, sparking another Blight?

Presumably nothing.

A more accurate statement would be "the Old Gods are considered evil by the Chantry". But why should I take their word for this? It's the same organization that barely tolerates mages, this way proving that it's views are narrow-minded and ossified. I say, screw the Chantry. If I can free an Old God without having him leading a darkspawn horde, I will.

It's a bit bad for the Grey Wardens' reputation when they are going about saving 'evil' creatures.

Ah, you should look at the bigger picture. Once the Chantry lies are exposed and the Old Gods are back on the world, the Gray Wardens will be regarded as those who saved both humanity AND the gods. The darkspawn will finally be defeated and with the mages free from the superstitious fears of the ignorant, this will start a real golden age for the people.

Do you consider the Teviner Imperium to be the height of civilization or something?
And why would the people want to worship the Old Gods? The Chantry has been convincing the people that they are demons for about twelve hundred years. That is not easily undone.

[Apophis2412]

marshalleck wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Alarna wrote...

Afaik the old gods are corrupted and the Maker banned them. When the darkspawn finds one of them, this old corrupted god is an archdemon.
So why should I believe that this old god soul isn't corrupted any more if it is new born in a child?

I think it is really dangerous to free a corrupted soul of a god. Gods are mighty.

The answer to these questions come down to how much you believe Morrigan--but she does directly address this issue.

And if you believe Morrigan and take her words at face value, you're a certifiable retard.

That's not very nice.

But true nontheless.

[marshalleck]

Apophis2412 wrote...

Do you consider the Teviner Imperium to be the height of civilization or something?
And why would the people want to worship the Old Gods? The Chantry has been convincing the people that they are demons for about twelve hundred years. That is not easily undone.

The Tevinter were indisputably the height of civilization, despite whether their subjects liked their methods. Just like Rome in our own ancient world.  And about the Chantry teachings? All their dogma is ****** in the wind compared to an Old God walking the world again. What good are empty promises and no proof of their Maker when an Old God is leading a Mage rebellion?

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:42 .

[menasure]

well the whole of Ferelden is gray in all kinds of shades, however there are "good" and "bad" connotations as a result of the story written from the view of the chantry. if you happen to be born as mage or as witch of the wild (or maybe as demon? lol) then you might want to reconsider considering the chantry and their templars as the "good" guys though.



Duncan point of view on blood magic does not really surprise me. he is just very pragmatic. he's a good guy because he fights a serious threat for ferelden but he does not make a fuzz about killing a coward or using his right of conscription to enlist criminals (like your own character can be) as long as it serves his cause and in a world where you can see your friends die any minute, if you're not killed yourself first it things like blood magic proably look trivial by itself because he does not have the luxury the average chantry priest has to just divide everything into an academical "good" and "evil". he's one of the guys who has to make things work in practice.

[Apophis2412]

marshalleck wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Do you consider the Teviner Imperium to be the height of civilization or something?
And why would the people want to worship the Old Gods? The Chantry has been convincing the people that they are demons for about twelve hundred years. That is not easily undone.

The Tevinter were indisputably the height of civilization, despite whether their subjects liked their methods. Just like Rome in our own ancient world.  And about the Chantry teachings? All their dogma is ****** in the wind compared to an Old God walking the world again. What good are empty promises and no proof of their Maker when an Old God is leading a Mage rebellion?

Is there any information about people worshipping the Archdemon.

[marshalleck]

Apophis2412 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Apophis2412 wrote...

Do you consider the Teviner Imperium to be the height of civilization or something?
And why would the people want to worship the Old Gods? The Chantry has been convincing the people that they are demons for about twelve hundred years. That is not easily undone.

The Tevinter were indisputably the height of civilization, despite whether their subjects liked their methods. Just like Rome in our own ancient world.  And about the Chantry teachings? All their dogma is ****** in the wind compared to an Old God walking the world again. What good are empty promises and no proof of their Maker when an Old God is leading a Mage rebellion?

Is there any information about people worshipping the Archdemon.

Not the Archdemon, but the Old Gods yes. They were once worshipped across all of Thedas, and it is believed that they originally instructed mortals in the use of magic. It may be worth pointing out that the Old God my PC saved, and which others destroyed is Urthemiel, the God of Beauty.

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Old_Gods

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:50 .