So, I'm researching the history of the Architect and I come across the wiki page for Dragon Age: The Calling and in the synopsis of the plot it says that Maric had an illegitimate son with an elf while in the Deep Roads. To my understanding, Alistair is the son of Maric and a human servant girl. So my question is, does Maric have yet another son running around out there? The synopsis also says that Duncan takes the boy and raises him.
Maric had some libedo, I'll tell you that much ...
Maric's Son(s)
Débuté par
M0RD3CA1 VII
, mai 12 2012 06:25
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#2
Posté 12 mai 2012 - 12:28
sylvanaerie
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Though it has never been confirmed, most fans believe Alistair is the child Fiona had and gave to Maric at the end of the Calling. It would be all too common for women to die in childbirth, and it would be easy to substitute one dead peasant woman's child for the king's son, and let the child believe this was his mother.
He didn't sleep around. He was in a depression following Rowan's death and wasn't out to bed every woman in Ferelden. Fiona practically jumped his bones if I remember right?
He didn't sleep around. He was in a depression following Rowan's death and wasn't out to bed every woman in Ferelden. Fiona practically jumped his bones if I remember right?
Modifié par sylvanaerie, 12 mai 2012 - 12:30 .
#3
Posté 12 mai 2012 - 04:35
M0RD3CA1 VII
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If that were the case, then Goldanna is ... what? She's most definitely not Elven. Alistair knew his mother's name, had her necklace til he broke it and then got it back. If that's the case, then Bioware really seems to have gotten itself confused ...
#4
Posté 12 mai 2012 - 05:24
sylvanaerie
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All children born to elves are human, not elf (or even half elf). If Alistair is the son of Fiona (and I didn't say he was, just that a lot of people think he may be), then Goldanna is exactly nothing to him except a bitter, money grubbing, b*tch who hates him, and she is undisputedly the child of the dead peasant woman, not Fiona's or Maric's. Alistair doesn't say his mother's name, he had a necklace she supposedly left for him as she supposedly died in childbirth, meaning he has no memories of her either. I am sort of on the Fiona/peasant woman fence. Until David Gaider comes right out and says "Alistair is Fiona's child" I prefer to not give it too much thought one way or the other. It has little pertinence to the game overall unless in DA3 (or other sequels) it comes up that his mother is a Grey Warden elven mage as opposed to a dead peasant woman in Redcliffe.
Modifié par sylvanaerie, 12 mai 2012 - 05:37 .
#5
Posté 12 mai 2012 - 05:49
Jessihatt
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I definitely think Fiona is Alistair's mother.
Imagine if the people of Ferelden found out Maric's bastard was born of an Orlesian who was also a mage, elf and slave to boot. Not even considering she was a Grey Warden.
I doubt they'd be pleased.
Plus Fiona said about letting the child think his mother died in child birth or something.
It'd be easy for Eamon to pick up any trinket and say this was your mother's.
Imagine if the people of Ferelden found out Maric's bastard was born of an Orlesian who was also a mage, elf and slave to boot. Not even considering she was a Grey Warden.
I doubt they'd be pleased.
Plus Fiona said about letting the child think his mother died in child birth or something.
It'd be easy for Eamon to pick up any trinket and say this was your mother's.
#6
Posté 13 mai 2012 - 03:48
M0RD3CA1 VII
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Hm, very interesting. I'm still confused because Goldanna knows who Alistar is, "the bastard prince", and to my recollection confirms that her mother died giving birth to him. It'd be awesome if Fiona is Alistair's mother, but the Goldanna dialouge confuses me ...
#7
Posté 13 mai 2012 - 04:35
caradoc2000
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Why does everyone have to be related? Personally I am quite tired of all these "no, I am your father" revelations. As far as I'm concerned Alistair is not Fiona's son - any more than Brianna is Kreia's daughter.
#8
Posté 13 mai 2012 - 11:30
sylvanaerie
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M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...
Hm, very interesting. I'm still confused because Goldanna knows who Alistar is, "the bastard prince", and to my recollection confirms that her mother died giving birth to him. It'd be awesome if Fiona is Alistair's mother, but the Goldanna dialouge confuses me ...
Why is it confusing? Seems pretty straightforward to me regardless of the circumstances, as long as you acknowlege someone, somewhere is lying. She was told her mother and the baby died at birth, given a coin to shut her up and sent from the castle. She doesn't even know who Alistair is till he tells her "I'm your brother". Then she goes into 'give me my due' mode demanding money.
People lie all the time. Her mother could have been telling the truth about the king fathering her baby, but she could have also lied. If she was half as money grubbing as Goldanna, birthing the king's bastard would have set her up in a much better situation (had she lived). Someone was lying, either then or now. Goldanna, herself, hardly seems a paragon of honesty.
It doesn't help that the timeline is so muddled and the game has plot holes/contradictions in dialogues. Some of Alistair's dialogues imply that he's a lot older than the early-mid twenties he should be if Fiona is his mother, (particularly when speaking of his past and his relationships with Eamon and Isolde) putting his birth closer to the end of the war, approximately 30 years prior, which would definitely negate the Fiona as his mother theory since her baby is not born till a decade after that.
I could go into further detail, but I tend to ramble a lot, lose track of what I'm doing, derailing the thread and posting ye olde wall o' text. Suffice to say, the things that are said make sense as long as you accept that Alistair has been lied to, or Goldanna has been lied to.
#9
Posté 13 mai 2012 - 12:07
Jessihatt
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I think the time line was messed up in the books anyway, Cailan's age is off in the calling (or so I remember reading somewhere)
Plus if Alistair was closer to 30, I don't think he'd have been a templar initiate, but a fully fledged, lyrium-addicted templar.
I think it was just coincidence Goldanna's mother died around the time Alistair was born. If she even did die. If she's like her daughter, she might have been paid to go elsewhere with her child and to let everyone she knew think she'd died.
Plus if Alistair was closer to 30, I don't think he'd have been a templar initiate, but a fully fledged, lyrium-addicted templar.
I think it was just coincidence Goldanna's mother died around the time Alistair was born. If she even did die. If she's like her daughter, she might have been paid to go elsewhere with her child and to let everyone she knew think she'd died.
#10
Posté 16 mai 2012 - 01:40
Ituralde
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I believe Alistair is Fionna's son, but as CommanderJessica said the timeline is really messed up.
I remember Loghain mentions that Maric sent Alistair to Redcliffe in order to save Rowan the humilliation of having his husband's bastard around in court. According to this, Rowan was still alive when Alistair was born. In the Calling, when Maric and Fiona had their thing, Rowan had been dead for... a year?, I'm not sure...
I remember Loghain mentions that Maric sent Alistair to Redcliffe in order to save Rowan the humilliation of having his husband's bastard around in court. According to this, Rowan was still alive when Alistair was born. In the Calling, when Maric and Fiona had their thing, Rowan had been dead for... a year?, I'm not sure...
#11
Posté 16 mai 2012 - 03:44
M0RD3CA1 VII
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See, that just doesn't make sense to me. Has Bioware just really messed up the timeline?
#12
Posté 16 mai 2012 - 04:33
Corker
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My admittedly cynical and meta read on it:
When Maric was nothing more than a name in some codex entries, it didn't matter if he cheated on Rowan with a serving girl. It was a perfectly reasonable way to create the 'unacknowledged bastard heir' character for the story. Being a bastard prince is special enough. If, in DAO, Alistair were the elf-blooded, mage-born bastard son of a king and a Grey Warden, it would have been... a bit much.
Then Maric got his own books. He became a fully-fledged character in his own right, and cheating on his wife would make him a much less sympathetic protagonist. So Katriela comes before Rowan, and Fiona after, and the staff of Redcliffe Castle are nowhere to be seen.
Ambiguous Baby is either a grab for pathos, Gaider's personal head canon for Alistair that he likes better now (unsurprising: Fiona has a book to develop her character, whereas I suppose Unnamed Dead Servant Woman isn't very compelling), or Gaider messing with people. Or a bit of all three.
When Maric was nothing more than a name in some codex entries, it didn't matter if he cheated on Rowan with a serving girl. It was a perfectly reasonable way to create the 'unacknowledged bastard heir' character for the story. Being a bastard prince is special enough. If, in DAO, Alistair were the elf-blooded, mage-born bastard son of a king and a Grey Warden, it would have been... a bit much.
Then Maric got his own books. He became a fully-fledged character in his own right, and cheating on his wife would make him a much less sympathetic protagonist. So Katriela comes before Rowan, and Fiona after, and the staff of Redcliffe Castle are nowhere to be seen.
Ambiguous Baby is either a grab for pathos, Gaider's personal head canon for Alistair that he likes better now (unsurprising: Fiona has a book to develop her character, whereas I suppose Unnamed Dead Servant Woman isn't very compelling), or Gaider messing with people. Or a bit of all three.
#13
Posté 17 mai 2012 - 09:36
Eyeshield21
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Maybe there was a real dead baby and Maric and Eamon thought best to pose Alistair as that child(the brother of Goldanna), maybe to hide him from enemies? Its possible, but unlikely(plus who knows how many plot holes that could cause).I don't know. That or the DA team missed something.
#14
Posté 18 mai 2012 - 04:16
brushyourteeth
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What leads me most to believe that Alistair is definitely Fiona's is his recruitment into the Grey Wardens. When Maric and Fiona hand the baby over Duncan promises to keep an eye on the boy. He may have no control over what happens to Alistair until he comes of age (he's got Warden business to attend to, after all) but he makes sure to recruit him when he's older. Alistair gets a new life, the other Theirin's can breathe a sigh of relief, and Duncan gets to basically have a piece of his old friends back all in one blow. The fact that he comes from Joining survival stock already is just a bonus.
If Alistair's not Fiona's son, then what on earth was Duncan doing to keep his promise, and how on earth did he just *accidentally* end up with another of Maric's kids hanging around?
If Alistair's not Fiona's son, then what on earth was Duncan doing to keep his promise, and how on earth did he just *accidentally* end up with another of Maric's kids hanging around?
#15
Posté 18 mai 2012 - 05:27
DeathScepter
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caradoc2000 wrote...
Why does everyone have to be related? Personally I am quite tired of all these "no, I am your father" revelations. As far as I'm concerned Alistair is not Fiona's son - any more than Brianna is Kreia's daughter.
i like how you think, caradoc
#16
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 03:15
BevH
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This, although, I believe I remember reading somewhere that Gaider said this was his own canon.Corker wrote...
My admittedly cynical and meta read on it:
When Maric was nothing more than a name in some codex entries, it didn't matter if he cheated on Rowan with a serving girl. It was a perfectly reasonable way to create the 'unacknowledged bastard heir' character for the story. Being a bastard prince is special enough. If, in DAO, Alistair were the elf-blooded, mage-born bastard son of a king and a Grey Warden, it would have been... a bit much.
Then Maric got his own books. He became a fully-fledged character in his own right, and cheating on his wife would make him a much less sympathetic protagonist. So Katriela comes before Rowan, and Fiona after, and the staff of Redcliffe Castle are nowhere to be seen.
Ambiguous Baby is either a grab for pathos, Gaider's personal head canon for Alistair that he likes better now (unsurprising: Fiona has a book to develop her character, whereas I suppose Unnamed Dead Servant Woman isn't very compelling), or Gaider messing with people. Or a bit of all three.
Originally, Alistair was planned to be around 30ish, which you can definitely see in his concept art. That got changed somewhere along the line as he was developed, I think.
I'm with those that are on the fence... mostly. The book came out at some point after the game. The game doesn't really mention how old Alistair might be, but he's younger than Cailan. For a long time, I assumed Cailan was 29 since he was the first born in a free Ferelden. But if you believe "The Calling", he's 25. I also always thought that Alistair was fairly young and if the book is to be believed, he can be no older than 19, so that's a point in the book's favor. For me the most compelling reasons to disbelieve the events of "The Calling" are the fact that Maric felt the need to hide this son from Rowan. If Rowan is dead, then what would be the point in that? Well, other than to hide a most obvious indiscretion. And I, too, have a problem with the whole Goldanna quest, but it could be as it's been suggested.
