190 réponses à ce sujet

[The Invisible Commando]

I don't see how people are still talking IT theory that I never believed. The StarBrat comments himself that TIM could never use the control method himself because he is indoctrinated. Obviously if Shepard is indoctrinated he can never control the Reapers. Also if he was indoctrinated, he would be a puppet. Why even give him the illusion of choice? StarBrat could just order him to do whatever. The IT theory logic is flawed even by the game itself.

[Sweawm]

This thread does not appreciate the "Artistic Integrity" of the Indoctrination Theory.

[ediskrad327]

screw what starbrat says

[irish07slasher]

My head hurts just thinking about how this doesn't make sense to you

Let me sum this up really quickly so that we can move on and let this die: The IT theory assumes that the starkid is LYING

Thank you, have a good day

[irish07slasher]

Also, the IT theory states that shepard is in the process of indoctrination and not fully indoctrinate yet, so please stop bashing a theory without ever looking into it

[Wabajakka]

irish07slasher wrote...

My head hurts just thinking about how this doesn't make sense to you

Let me sum this up really quickly so that we can move on and let this die: The IT theory assumes that the starkid is LYING

Thank you, have a good day

This.

Please, OP know your stuff before you post. Let this die.

[tilusN7]

 IT assumes that everything happens in Shepard's head. He's not actually making the choice to activate the crucible, the choice is reflective of his fighting off indoctrination.

Knowing what you're talking about before you go making assumptions and criticising what others believe in is a good idea.

[EnvyTB075]

OP;
>Doesn't "believe" IT
>Doesn't bother to understand it either
>Creates thread in the hope of gaining kudos for a "startling revelation".

OP also doesn't understand that many of us consider IT a viable theory and not a religion.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 12 mai 2012 - 06:46 .

[ShepnTali]

You can't kill IT. I'll take it. I'll even take 'it was all a dream and Shepard wakes up in bed ready for the real fight' at this point.

[ichik]

Shepard can't control the reapers BUT he is made to believe that he can. EXACTLY LIKE THAT Illusive Man couldn't control them BUT he believed that, because he was made to believe that. FULL ANALOGY.
The again — why Reapers give Shepard the illusion of choice? Because this is the easiest way actually to convince people — provide them with choices any of those are satisfying for you, because actually this choices are nothing but lies. Remember that through entire series lots of people mentioned that Shepard has incredibly strong will? If you have read the book Retribution where the process of indoctrination is show from "inside the head" of Paul Grayson you'd know that person can actually resist Reapers for some time.
And they don't have actually time, because Cruicible is built, and Shepard is near it, they don't have time! THAT's it! They have to sound really realistic with their lies to him, because otherwise he can break the control for some time, and that time would be enough to finish them off.
Funny enough this realistic lies was made realistic enough to made lots of players to believe them.

Your whole point isn't valid because it's based on the idea "What if Starchild really tells the truth". What proof of it do you have?

[Peytl]

Since IT is using circular logic, lying, or demagogy, you can't discuss with them anything.

[The Invisible Commando]

I've seen the low EMS dialogue when you have no choice but Destroy and StarBrat is full of pissed off knowing you can only destroy them. Of course he is trying to push you to the green ending. That is his goal. He only tries to make Destroy and Control look bad.

IT theory is hoping that the end is better and Destroy is your only choice. Bioware is not pushing you to Destroy. The writing isn't some grand trick or mind play.

Yes, I have seen many IT videos. All of them seemed okay in some areas, but flawed in others. "It was all a dream" is some Wizard of OZ crap.

Modifié par The Invisible Commando, 12 mai 2012 - 06:52 .

[Mcfly616]

I think you're confused.....


Funny you say he destroys it though.....

When the first things out of his dirty Reaper mouth are: " WAKE UP"....


Hmmm I guess, by using your extreme polarizing views, we could say StarBrat proves the Indoc Theory as absolute fact in his first 2 words.....


But we don't need to get that extreme do we? /thread

[Rockstarblunt]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

I don't see how people are still talking IT theory that I never believed. The StarBrat comments himself that TIM could never use the control method himself because he is indoctrinated. Obviously if Shepard is indoctrinated he can never control the Reapers. Also if he was indoctrinated, he would be a puppet. Why even give him the illusion of choice? StarBrat could just order him to do whatever. The IT theory logic is flawed even by the game itself.

You believe what the Catalyst says??

... you don't even deserve to play this series Rofl.

[Bill Casey]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

I don't see how people are still talking IT theory that I never believed. The StarBrat comments himself that TIM could never use the control method himself because he is indoctrinated. Obviously if Shepard is indoctrinated he can never control the Reapers. Also if he was indoctrinated, he would be a puppet. Why even give him the illusion of choice? StarBrat could just order him to do whatever. The IT theory logic is flawed even by the game itself.

1. "Indoctrinated" means you are embued with the point of view the Reapers want you to accept uncritically.
2. The Reapers employ psychological conditioning to bring people around to their way of thinking.
3. The more control The Reapers exert over a thrall, the less useful that thrall becomes.

The first point is the definition of Indoctrinated, the second and third are from the codex...
Shepard isn't indoctrinated until he accepts the logic of the reaper's thralls...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 12 mai 2012 - 07:03 .

[thefallen2far]

That really doesn't destroy IT.  Maybe for you.... someone who doesn't believe in IT.... that's "definative proof" against IT, but in truth, they're independent issues.   Don't forget, it's all in his head.

[TSA_383]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

I don't see how people are still talking IT theory that I never believed. The StarBrat comments himself that TIM could never use the control method himself because he is indoctrinated. Obviously if Shepard is indoctrinated he can never control the Reapers. Also if he was indoctrinated, he would be a puppet. Why even give him the illusion of choice? StarBrat could just order him to do whatever. The IT theory logic is flawed even by the game itself.

Uh huh, because I imagine when they were indoctrinating the illusive man they told him "Oh totally brah, you could try, but we own you".

No. Find me an indoctrination victim that thinks they're indoctrinated

[Elyiia]

Mcfly616 wrote...

I think you're confused.....


Funny you say he destroys it though.....

When the first things out of his dirty Reaper mouth are: " WAKE UP"....


Hmmm I guess, by using your extreme polarizing views, we could say StarBrat proves the Indoc Theory as absolute fact in his first 2 words.....


But we don't need to get that extreme do we? /thread

You don't have to say wake up to someone who's asleep. Shepard has literally just become conscious again, saying wake up makes sense.

[Mcfly616]

Elyiia wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I think you're confused.....


Funny you say he destroys it though.....

When the first things out of his dirty Reaper mouth are: " WAKE UP"....


Hmmm I guess, by using your extreme polarizing views, we could say StarBrat proves the Indoc Theory as absolute fact in his first 2 words.....


But we don't need to get that extreme do we? /thread

You don't have to say wake up to someone who's asleep. Shepard has literally just become conscious again, saying wake up makes sense.

Just like everything else he says?


Riiiiight....


It makes perfect sense? Shepard was on the "sky elevator" for a.grand total of 10 seconds...."wake up" was appropriate? Yeah, about as appropriate as telling a person that's sleeping, to go to sleep.....


He wasn't sleeping....he's already out.....Starchild says Wake up for this very reason

[Mcfly616]

Basically you're saying anything Starchild says is the truth.....well that logic is just ridiculous.....therefore we'll just agree.to disagree

[Shallyah]

You know, what people do when they want you to feel special so that you buy something?

"Psst, psst! I got this, just for you, because you're special!".

Exactly.

Pretty sure they indoctrinated TIM by making him believe something like "No human could control the Reapers. But you are special..."

Modifié par Shallyah, 12 mai 2012 - 08:08 .

[Elyiia]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I think you're confused.....


Funny you say he destroys it though.....

When the first things out of his dirty Reaper mouth are: " WAKE UP"....


Hmmm I guess, by using your extreme polarizing views, we could say StarBrat proves the Indoc Theory as absolute fact in his first 2 words.....


But we don't need to get that extreme do we? /thread

You don't have to say wake up to someone who's asleep. Shepard has literally just become conscious again, saying wake up makes sense.

Just like everything else he says?


Riiiiight....


It makes perfect sense? Shepard was on the "sky elevator" for a.grand total of 10 seconds...."wake up" was appropriate? Yeah, about as appropriate as telling a person that's sleeping, to go to sleep.....


He wasn't sleeping....he's already out.....Starchild says Wake up for this very reason

Not sure if troll...

Shepard was literally just unconscious. When you wake up, you are not necessarily in a full state of being awake. Shepard is unconscious from exhaustion and bloodloss, there's no way he's going from unconscious to fully awake straight away.

If someone is partially unconscious, telling them to wake up is common in real life.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

LIAR!

[Pelle6666]

You get it wrong.
The sole purpose of the color choice at the end (according to IT) is to give the PLAYER the illusion of choice. Shepard is already being indoctrinated and the scene only takes place in his mind. By choosing destroy he then brakes free of the reapers influence over his mind. It is the player that is being "indoctrinated" by being made to choose synthesis or control.
So what the catalyst tells you doesn't matter, he is already using loads of circular logic and the lies are spreading very thin. We are after all assuming that he is not telling us the truth.

[DEATHSCOPE]

Guise. Hey guise. Seriously. Is it me? Guise. Is it just me? Am I the only one who thinks that this is a troll thread?