190 réponses à ce sujet

[hoodaticus]

Peytl wrote...

Since IT is using circular logic, lying, or demagogy, you can't discuss with them anything.

That's reasonable, if you ignore the thousands of pages of forum text that discuss IT.

[Sebby]

The IT theory discredits itself right off the bat just on the fallacy that the same hack writers who came up with the plot of humans being slurpeed into creating a space terminator or a deux ex machina plot device that makes the Triforce in Zelda look brilliant* would actually even attempt to do something so subtle let alone actually pull it off. It's fanboy desperation and self-delusion at it's LOL funniest.

*And I've only scratched the surface of the ineptitude of the writers.

[UrgentArchengel]

You seriously have no idea what IT and overall Reaper Indoctrination is do you? Did you know that In IT, Shepard was never Indoctrinated?

[Sebby]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

You seriously have no idea what IT and overall Reaper Indoctrination is do you? Did you know that In IT, Shepard was never Indoctrinated?

I fully understand Reaper indoctrination, it's the contrived plot device so Bioware can cut corners and defecate on player choice with the notable examples being Udina,Cerberus/TIM, The Rachni and the Geth.

Now the question is, do YOU understand it?

[Ang3l o Xn6]

Starbrat ? i totaly erase me of my mind, i hope bioware does the same.

[elecmanexe001]

hoodaticus wrote...

Peytl wrote...

Since IT is using circular logic, lying, or demagogy, you can't discuss with them anything.

That's reasonable, if you ignore the thousands of pages of forum text that discuss IT.

Not to mention, taking the logic of the starchild at face value is circular as well. We made synthetics to destroy organics to stop them from creating synthetics that might destroy them.

Seboist wrote...

The IT theory discredits itself right off
the bat just on the fallacy that the same hack writers who came up with
the plot of humans being slurpeed into creating a space terminator or a
deux ex machina plot device that makes the Triforce in Zelda look
brilliant* would actually even attempt to do something so subtle let
alone actually pull it off. It's fanboy desperation and self-delusion at
it's LOL funniest.

*And I've only scratched the surface of the ineptitude of the writers.

So you hate the entire series then, cool, then nothing you say is going to matter to anyone else as they will discredit you with bias against the series. No one can saw Bioware was flawless in their story telling in any of the games, but people loved the story none the less. If you are going to say bad writting is the reason it is impossible then you might as well not bother arguing the point cause most people, including those that (and this part is important) "Respectfully Disagree" with IT still enjoyed the story Bioware put into their game and only dislike the ending.

Modifié par elecmanexe001, 12 mai 2012 - 08:52 .

[UrgentArchengel]

Seboist wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

You seriously have no idea what IT and overall Reaper Indoctrination is do you? Did you know that In IT, Shepard was never Indoctrinated?

I fully understand Reaper indoctrination, it's the contrived plot device so Bioware can cut corners and defecate on player choice with the notable examples being Udina,Cerberus/TIM, The Rachni and the Geth.

Now the question is, do YOU understand it?

I do, and I was talking to the OP, not you.

Modifié par UrgentArchengel, 12 mai 2012 - 09:02 .

[kaisterbahn]

Peytl wrote...

Since IT is using circular logic, lying, or demagogy, you can't discuss with them anything.

You sound retarded even when using a thesaurus.

[iHorizons]

This thread has LOTS OF SPECULATIONS....... FROM EVERYONE!!!!

[Jayleia]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

I don't see how people are still talking IT theory that I never believed. The StarBrat comments himself that TIM could never use the control method himself because he is indoctrinated. Obviously if Shepard is indoctrinated he can never control the Reapers. Also if he was indoctrinated, he would be a puppet. Why even give him the illusion of choice? StarBrat could just order him to do whatever. The IT theory logic is flawed even by the game itself.

Actually, no.

The IT theory is based on the theory of IT as manipulation, not mind control.

Saren THOUGHT it was a good idea to try for Synthesis.

The Illusive Man THOUGHT it was a good idea try for Control.

The Reapers manipulated them into thinking that, but they never stated "YOU WILL BELIEVE THIS"

[Agugaboo]

irish07slasher wrote...

My head hurts just thinking about how this doesn't make sense to you

Let me sum this up really quickly so that we can move on and let this die: The IT theory assumes that the starkid is LYING

Thank you, have a good day

yep

[hoodaticus]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

You seriously have no idea what IT and overall Reaper Indoctrination is do you? Did you know that In IT, Shepard was never Indoctrinated?

Unless he picked Control/Synthesis or you're talking about DreamIT.

[Agugaboo]

Peytl wrote...

Since IT is using circular logic, lying, or demagogy, you can't discuss with them anything.

You know, I have to wonder if this circular logic claim is a bit circular in it's logic?

[Pottumuusi]

Well of course the Starchild would never lie! Pfft, don't be ridiculous.

[Foxhound2121]

Pottumuusi wrote...

Well of course the Starchild would never lie! Pfft, don't be ridiculous.

As far as we know, the star child did lie since it was confirmed by weekes on twitter. 

[Candidate 88766]

Its my understanding that those who believe the IT assume the Catalyst is lying.

Although if you have to assume that the game is either wrong or lying to you in order for your theory to work, then that should be a sign that something is wrong with it.

[bahamutomega]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

I don't see how people are still talking IT theory that I never believed. The StarBrat comments himself that TIM could never use the control method himself because he is indoctrinated. Obviously if Shepard is indoctrinated he can never control the Reapers. Also if he was indoctrinated, he would be a puppet. Why even give him the illusion of choice? StarBrat could just order him to do whatever. The IT theory logic is flawed even by the game itself.

apparently, you don't get the IT - the starchild is telling Shepard what the Reapers want Shepard to hear.

in other words...  i'm a Reaper.  i want to indoctrinate Shepard.  i'm not going to tell Shepard that "hey - the Illusive Man couldn't control us - we control him.  the same goes for you!"

i'm going to tell Shepard exactly what she wants to hear - "hey - he couldn't control us because we controlled him.  but since we don't control you, you can control us!"

tell me something.  if you are playing a prank on someone, do you tell them how you are screwing with their mind?

[Cyne]

Well of course Shepard would dream up a character who says the illusive man was indoctrinated, the reapers would want Shepard to think he could do that which the illusive man couldn't; that because Shepard wasn't being manipulated, the consequences of choosing control would be different. This is assuming the IT is legit, of course, which I don't think it is. Still, it's interesting to speculate. Shepard himself had questioned whether he was merely Cerberus's puppet (paraphrasing) at some point earlier in the game; it's plausible the reapers could be controlling him now, at the end. Was Shepard really himself after the beginning of ME2? We still don't know what exactly Cerberus did to him.

[Dormiglione]

The "Starchild" itself causes so many plotholes. Heres my opinion / theory about the starchild
http://social.biowar.../index/11711332

[daecath]

Please, there isn't any logic in the ending to begin with, why should we be nit-picking about it now?

But, just because I feel like it:

As far as IT goes, the theory is that none of the options actually do what he says they do. Picking control or synthesis is simply giving the reapers' indoctrination more hold over you.

[JohnZ117]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

I've seen the low EMS dialogue when you have no choice but Destroy and StarBrat is full of pissed off knowing you can only destroy them. Of course he is trying to push you to the green ending. That is his goal. He only tries to make Destroy and Control look bad.

This is what destroys the Indoctrination "theory."  If IT was valid, why would there ever be a point when we aren't given either of the "bad" options?

[spirosz]

[LordSlavius]

People who call it IT theory are calling it the "indoctrination theory theory". It's like a PIN number, or an ATM machine.

[bahamutomega]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Its my understanding that those who believe the IT assume the Catalyst is lying.

Although if you have to assume that the game is either wrong or lying to you in order for your theory to work, then that should be a sign that something is wrong with it.

it's not an assumption.  it is actually pretty logical reasoning, if you figure the Reapers are fighting for survival.  it is a mistrust of the Catalyst.  assumption is the mother of all **** ups.

to quote one of the greatest characters BioWare ever created...  "how does it trust someone it hasn't met before?"

did you honestly trust the Illusive Man the first time you met him in ME2?  did you really think he was simply going to turn the Collector Base over to the Alliance?  oh, wait, he keeps it for himself - not for humanity, for his own personal gain.

yeah.  go ahead and keep trusting the Catalyst.  i will not believe a word it says.  i'm just trying to remove its purpose for existence, destroy its "solution."  it's only trying to survive.  no reason to lie to me.  really.

[Candidate 88766]

JohnZ117 wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

I've seen the low EMS dialogue when you have no choice but Destroy and StarBrat is full of pissed off knowing you can only destroy them. Of course he is trying to push you to the green ending. That is his goal. He only tries to make Destroy and Control look bad.

This is what destroys the Indoctrination "theory."  If IT was valid, why would there ever be a point when we aren't given either of the "bad" options?

They claim its because Shepard isn't 'worthy' of being indoctrinated because his fleet could've been bigger. Which is an awful answer.

Shepard has killed, or helped kill, six Reapers now (Sovereign, the Human Reaper, the one on Tuchunka, the one on Rannoch, and the two in London). he has been a constant thorn in their side - he stopped them activating the Citadel, he stopped their plans with the Collectors, he stopped them using the Alpha Relay, and he united a galaxy behind him. Even if you do badly you have a huge fleet.

And the IT supporters claim that even after all this, and even when Harbinger has Shepard right where they want him, they won't bother to indoctrinate him, or kill him, because his fleet could've been bigger. 

Sure.