190 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

Elyiia wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

By the same logic, another Shepard might have ended the reaper threat

I don't see why it's such a stretch, in the case of indoctrination theory (where the scene itself would be a lie) for them to have that sort of message? It's not as if the credits and the scenes before it wouldn't be intended to give you that same impression.

Personally, since we see what happens in the far future anyway, it's quite possible that the threat was ended after that dream, maybe for all the choices involved. It's not as if Shepard's the only person in London you know. I imagine he'd still get credit for all he's done.

It's because it specifically says that Shepard has defeated the Reapers.

If you believe IT, he hasn't actually defeated the Reapers, contridicting the in game message.

Actually it says he "ended the reaper threat" but in two of the three endings, the threat remains.

[KingZayd]

Silhouett3 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...


In all the time the IT has been floating around, no-one has ever actually come up with an argument against this. The game explicitly tells you that the Reaper threat is over, which is simply not the case if the IT is true - therefore, the IT cannot be true. People can connect glitches and inconsistencies to try to make them into a bigger picture 'proving' the IT, but the game itslef explicitly disproves it. 

I did gave a link only one page ago, do not ignore it. Reading never hurt anybody.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10973597/1

awesome, but spoilers i just bought the NWN games recently.

Modifié par KingZayd, 12 mai 2012 - 04:06 .

[Candidate 88766]

Silhouett3 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...


In all the time the IT has been floating around, no-one has ever actually come up with an argument against this. The game explicitly tells you that the Reaper threat is over, which is simply not the case if the IT is true - therefore, the IT cannot be true. People can connect glitches and inconsistencies to try to make them into a bigger picture 'proving' the IT, but the game itslef explicitly disproves it. 

I did gave a link only one page ago, do not ignore it. Reading never hurt anybody.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10973597/1

Is that the right link?

My point was that the game tells you at the end that the Reaper threat has just been ended, which negates the IT being true.

Your link is talking about how Bioware has used a vaguely similar idea to the IT in one of the Baldur's Gate games. 

The two aren't connected 

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 12 mai 2012 - 04:13 .

[Elyiia]

balance5050 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

By the same logic, another Shepard might have ended the reaper threat

I don't see why it's such a stretch, in the case of indoctrination theory (where the scene itself would be a lie) for them to have that sort of message? It's not as if the credits and the scenes before it wouldn't be intended to give you that same impression.

Personally, since we see what happens in the far future anyway, it's quite possible that the threat was ended after that dream, maybe for all the choices involved. It's not as if Shepard's the only person in London you know. I imagine he'd still get credit for all he's done.

It's because it specifically says that Shepard has defeated the Reapers.

If you believe IT, he hasn't actually defeated the Reapers, contridicting the in game message.

Actually it says he "ended the reaper threat" but in two of the three endings, the threat remains.

Oh really?
Destroy - No Reapers left, threat gone.
Control - Under Shepard's control, threat gone.
Synthesis - Hybrids, no singularity, threat gone.

[balance5050]

KingZayd wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...


In all the time the IT has been floating around, no-one has ever actually come up with an argument against this. The game explicitly tells you that the Reaper threat is over, which is simply not the case if the IT is true - therefore, the IT cannot be true. People can connect glitches and inconsistencies to try to make them into a bigger picture 'proving' the IT, but the game itslef explicitly disproves it. 

I did gave a link only one page ago, do not ignore it. Reading never hurt anybody.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10973597/1

awesome, but spoilers i just bought the NWN games recently.

The things mentioned in this article and the reapers are both based on HP lovecraft's cthulu.

[KingZayd]

balance5050 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...


In all the time the IT has been floating around, no-one has ever actually come up with an argument against this. The game explicitly tells you that the Reaper threat is over, which is simply not the case if the IT is true - therefore, the IT cannot be true. People can connect glitches and inconsistencies to try to make them into a bigger picture 'proving' the IT, but the game itslef explicitly disproves it. 

I did gave a link only one page ago, do not ignore it. Reading never hurt anybody.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10973597/1

awesome, but spoilers i just bought the NWN games recently.

The things mentioned in this article and the reapers are both based on HP lovecraft's cthulu.

I'm referring to the bit about bioware having done this before

Modifié par KingZayd, 12 mai 2012 - 04:10 .

[Candidate 88766]

balance5050 wrote...

It's not part of the story... it says DLC, its just a cheesy  message letting you know that DLC is on the way. If it says DLC, it's an advertisement.

It's not like Aria says out loud, "I'd love to retake Omega, but you have to buy the DLC, Shepard."

The fact that it advertises DLC (a fact that I hate - the last words of the ME trilogy were downloadable content) doesn't detract from the fact that it also tells you the Reaper threat has been ended, which wouldn't be true in the case of the IT - so the IT contradicts what the game is directly telling you, which should be an indication that there's something wrong with the theory.

[CavScout]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

I don't see how people are still talking IT theory that I never believed. The StarBrat comments himself that TIM could never use the control method himself because he is indoctrinated. Obviously if Shepard is indoctrinated he can never control the Reapers. Also if he was indoctrinated, he would be a puppet. Why even give him the illusion of choice? StarBrat could just order him to do whatever. The IT theory logic is flawed even by the game itself.

To the Indoctrination Theory faithful, nothing can disprove Indoctrination Theory. Anything in game that does work against Indoctrination Theory is just claimed to be part of Indoctrination Theory (it's fake, it's a trick etc) and thus can't be used against Indoctrination Theory.

[balance5050]

Elyiia wrote...

Oh really?
Destroy - No Reapers left, threat gone.
Control - Under Shepard's control, threat gone.
Synthesis - Hybrids, no singularity, threat gone.

Control - The reapers are still around, you can headcanon whatever you wish, but the reapers remain and a little boy talked you into suicide.

Synthesis - You  realize that the singularity threat (that the kid convinced you was a real thing) isn' the reaper threat right? They already are a combination of flesh and tech, wouldn't even affect them.

Also, in synthesis, pure organics can still be made in a lab and pure synthetics can be manufactured EASIER than before. so the singularity is acually still a threat, you just took away everyone's free will is all.

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 04:15 .

[Candidate 88766]

balance5050 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Oh really?
Destroy - No Reapers left, threat gone.
Control - Under Shepard's control, threat gone.
Synthesis - Hybrids, no singularity, threat gone.

Control - The reapers are still around, you can headcanon whatever you wish, but the reapers remain and a little boy talked you into suicide.

Synthesis - You  realize that the singularity threat (that the kid convinced you was a real thing) isn' the reaper threat right? They already are a combination of flesh and tech, wouldn't even affect them.

Also, in synthesis, pure organics can still be mad in a lab and pure synthetics can be manufactured EASIER than before. so the singularity is acually still a threat, you just took away everyone's free will is all.

Control - Reapers are no longer attacking you. Threat ended.
Destroy - Reapers are dead. Threat ended.
Synthesis - Reapers are no longer attacking you. Threat ended.

[balance5050]

KingZayd wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...


In all the time the IT has been floating around, no-one has ever actually come up with an argument against this. The game explicitly tells you that the Reaper threat is over, which is simply not the case if the IT is true - therefore, the IT cannot be true. People can connect glitches and inconsistencies to try to make them into a bigger picture 'proving' the IT, but the game itslef explicitly disproves it. 

I did gave a link only one page ago, do not ignore it. Reading never hurt anybody.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10973597/1

awesome, but spoilers i just bought the NWN games recently.

The things mentioned in this article and the reapers are both based on HP lovecraft's cthulu.

I'm referring to the bit about bioware having done this before

Spoilers, they did it with mindflayers in the expansion mentioned in the article. Mindflayers based on Lovecraft lore.

Cthulu was constantly messing with people psyches similar to the reapers and the minsflayers.

[balance5050]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...


In all the time the IT has been floating around, no-one has ever actually come up with an argument against this. The game explicitly tells you that the Reaper threat is over, which is simply not the case if the IT is true - therefore, the IT cannot be true. People can connect glitches and inconsistencies to try to make them into a bigger picture 'proving' the IT, but the game itslef explicitly disproves it. 

I did gave a link only one page ago, do not ignore it. Reading never hurt anybody.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10973597/1

Is that the right link?

My point was that the game tells you at the end that the Reaper threat has just been ended, which negates the IT being true.

Your link is talking about how Bioware has used a vaguely similar idea to the IT in one of the Baldur's Gate games. 

The two aren't connected 

They are though, they even did the false endig thing with credits to make you beleive it was the real ending , but you just chose wrong.

[balance5050]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Oh really?
Destroy - No Reapers left, threat gone.
Control - Under Shepard's control, threat gone.
Synthesis - Hybrids, no singularity, threat gone.

Control - The reapers are still around, you can headcanon whatever you wish, but the reapers remain and a little boy talked you into suicide.

Synthesis - You  realize that the singularity threat (that the kid convinced you was a real thing) isn' the reaper threat right? They already are a combination of flesh and tech, wouldn't even affect them.

Also, in synthesis, pure organics can still be mad in a lab and pure synthetics can be manufactured EASIER than before. so the singularity is acually still a threat, you just took away everyone's free will is all.

Control - Reapers are no longer attacking you. Threat ended.
Destroy - Reapers are dead. Threat ended.
Synthesis - Reapers are no longer attacking you. Threat ended.

The second you lose the will to destroy the reapers is the same second you have become indoctrinated. 

[Silhouett3]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Is that the right link?

My point was that the game tells you at the end that the Reaper threat has just been ended, which negates the IT being true.

Your link is talking about how Bioware has used a vaguely similar idea to the IT in one of the Baldur's Gate games. 

The two aren't connected 

Well, maybe there wasn't no "You have became a legend" message window at the end of Hordes of the Underdark, but the idea of IT is there:

"where at one point you confront an advanced civilisation of psychic Mind Flayers, ruled by a giant Elder Brain. You can choose to negotiate with it, but if you try to attack, it psychically creates an illusion that makes you think you've won the war, ended up in a small idyllic forest, with a charming hostess inviting you to a celebration (to my recollection, it's been years since I played this). If you accept, the credits roll exactly as if you completed the game."

Modifié par Silhouett3, 12 mai 2012 - 04:19 .

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Is that the right link?

My point was that the game tells you at the end that the Reaper threat has just been ended, which negates the IT being true.

Your link is talking about how Bioware has used a vaguely similar idea to the IT in one of the Baldur's Gate games. 

The two aren't connected 

They are though, they even did the false endig thing with credits to make you beleive it was the real ending , but you just chose wrong.

To those followers of Indoctrination Theory, even when you're no longer playing Shep you are still Indoctrinated!

[Elyiia]

balance5050 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Oh really?
Destroy - No Reapers left, threat gone.
Control - Under Shepard's control, threat gone.
Synthesis - Hybrids, no singularity, threat gone.

Control - The reapers are still around, you can headcanon whatever you wish, but the reapers remain and a little boy talked you into suicide.

Synthesis - You  realize that the singularity threat (that the kid convinced you was a real thing) isn' the reaper threat right? They already are a combination of flesh and tech, wouldn't even affect them.

Also, in synthesis, pure organics can still be made in a lab and pure synthetics can be manufactured EASIER than before. so the singularity is acually still a threat, you just took away everyone's free will is all.

You're assuming a lot. Just because it makes sense for him to lie to Shepard, and it makes sense for Shepard not to believe him does not actually mean he's lying.

In control we see the Reapers leave, if Shepard wasn't in control the Catalyst would have just been like "Lol, back to work"

The singularity is the (new) reason for the Reapers, bypassing it causes the Reapers not to need to destroy organics anymore. And again, assuming Synthetics and organics can be created again without fully knowing what synthesis actually does. For all you know, something about it prevents pure organics/synthetics ever being created again.

[Candidate 88766]

Silhouett3 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Is that the right link?

My point was that the game tells you at the end that the Reaper threat has just been ended, which negates the IT being true.

Your link is talking about how Bioware has used a vaguely similar idea to the IT in one of the Baldur's Gate games. 

The two aren't connected 

Well, maybe there wasn't no "You have became a legend" message window at the end of Hordes of the Underdark, but the idea of IT is there:

"where at one point you confront an advanced civilisation of psychic Mind Flayers, ruled by a giant Elder Brain. You can choose to negotiate with it, but if you try to attack, it psychically creates an illusion that makes you think you've won the war, ended up in a small idyllic forest, with a charming hostess inviting you to a celebration (to my recollection, it's been years since I played this). If you accept, the credits roll exactly as if you completed the game."

But it didn't have a pop-up box directly telling you the opposite.

If you assume that the pop-up was a lie or a trick, then you're saying that instead of creating an actual ending Bioware instead spent their time on a 'trick' ending that breaks the fourth wall to trick the player.

Why would they do this?

If this were real, the 'surprise' is ruined. The fan backlash is monumental, and there is even media backlash against Bioware and EA because of this. If they really did have an ace up their sleeve - a 'real' ending - someone would've spoken.

The fact that haven't implies one of two things. Firstly, that they didn't have time to create the 'real' ending and instead spent the time they could've spent on the real ending on a fake ending, when instead they could've just made the real ending. This is obviously not the case.

Or secondly, that they never planned on making a 'real' ending because the endings of ME3 are just that - the endings. There is no elaborate trick building up to what is essentially a late April Fools joke - the endings simply are what they are. This is backed up what the game tells you  - that the Reaper threat has been ended - and simple business knowledge - no company would go through this level of backlash for the sake of 'suprising' their customers. Its utterly illogical.

[dreman9999]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

I don't see how people are still talking IT theory that I never believed. The StarBrat comments himself that TIM could never use the control method himself because he is indoctrinated. Obviously if Shepard is indoctrinated he can never control the Reapers. Also if he was indoctrinated, he would be a puppet. Why even give him the illusion of choice? StarBrat could just order him to do whatever. The IT theory logic is flawed even by the game itself.

What does"You will die,you will control us but lose everything you have" mean?

[balance5050]

Elyiia wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Oh really?
Destroy - No Reapers left, threat gone.
Control - Under Shepard's control, threat gone.
Synthesis - Hybrids, no singularity, threat gone.

Control - The reapers are still around, you can headcanon whatever you wish, but the reapers remain and a little boy talked you into suicide.

Synthesis - You  realize that the singularity threat (that the kid convinced you was a real thing) isn' the reaper threat right? They already are a combination of flesh and tech, wouldn't even affect them.

Also, in synthesis, pure organics can still be made in a lab and pure synthetics can be manufactured EASIER than before. so the singularity is acually still a threat, you just took away everyone's free will is all.

You're assuming a lot. Just because it makes sense for him to lie to Shepard, and it makes sense for Shepard not to believe him does not actually mean he's lying.

In control we see the Reapers leave, if Shepard wasn't in control the Catalyst would have just been like "Lol, back to work"

The singularity is the (new) reason for the Reapers, bypassing it causes the Reapers not to need to destroy organics anymore. And again, assuming Synthetics and organics can be created again without fully knowing what synthesis actually does. For all you know, something about it prevents pure organics/synthetics ever being created again.

The reapers are sentient despite what starkid would have you believe, all sentent creatures primary focus is to live, you realize that organics are fuel to the reapers as well as a means of reproduction right? So what happens in either control or synthesis when when the reapers need to refuel?

Also the reapers say they only choose organics that are worthy for ascension, so harvesters are actually proof of his lies.

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 04:30 .

[dreman9999]

Elyiia wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Oh really?
Destroy - No Reapers left, threat gone.
Control - Under Shepard's control, threat gone.
Synthesis - Hybrids, no singularity, threat gone.

Control - The reapers are still around, you can headcanon whatever you wish, but the reapers remain and a little boy talked you into suicide.

Synthesis - You  realize that the singularity threat (that the kid convinced you was a real thing) isn' the reaper threat right? They already are a combination of flesh and tech, wouldn't even affect them.

Also, in synthesis, pure organics can still be made in a lab and pure synthetics can be manufactured EASIER than before. so the singularity is acually still a threat, you just took away everyone's free will is all.

You're assuming a lot. Just because it makes sense for him to lie to Shepard, and it makes sense for Shepard not to believe him does not actually mean he's lying.

In control we see the Reapers leave, if Shepard wasn't in control the Catalyst would have just been like "Lol, back to work"

The singularity is the (new) reason for the Reapers, bypassing it causes the Reapers not to need to destroy organics anymore. And again, assuming Synthetics and organics can be created again without fully knowing what synthesis actually does. For all you know, something about it prevents pure organics/synthetics ever being created again.

In control we see the reapers move the citadel way and leave the allied fleet trapped in the sol system.....You don't think may be they are going to reap someplace else first and waitout the fleet as the die from starvation.

Also, in synthesis the reaper don't have a point to reaper any more, you allwed them the power to control all organics. Everyone is controled by the implaints you let them put in everyone.

[Candidate 88766]

balance5050 wrote...

Also the reapers say they only choose organics that are worthy for ascension, so harvesters are actually proof of his lies.

Ascension means turning a race into a Reaper. The harvesters are husks. Massive difference.

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

You're assuming a lot. Just because it makes sense for him to lie to Shepard, and it makes sense for Shepard not to believe him does not actually mean he's lying.

In control we see the Reapers leave, if Shepard wasn't in control the Catalyst would have just been like "Lol, back to work"

The singularity is the (new) reason for the Reapers, bypassing it causes the Reapers not to need to destroy organics anymore. And again, assuming Synthetics and organics can be created again without fully knowing what synthesis actually does. For all you know, something about it prevents pure organics/synthetics ever being created again.

The reapers are sentient despite what starkid would have you believe, all sentent creatures primary focus is to live...

You're making things up again.

[balance5050]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Is that the right link?

My point was that the game tells you at the end that the Reaper threat has just been ended, which negates the IT being true.

Your link is talking about how Bioware has used a vaguely similar idea to the IT in one of the Baldur's Gate games. 

The two aren't connected 

Well, maybe there wasn't no "You have became a legend" message window at the end of Hordes of the Underdark, but the idea of IT is there:

"where at one point you confront an advanced civilisation of psychic Mind Flayers, ruled by a giant Elder Brain. You can choose to negotiate with it, but if you try to attack, it psychically creates an illusion that makes you think you've won the war, ended up in a small idyllic forest, with a charming hostess inviting you to a celebration (to my recollection, it's been years since I played this). If you accept, the credits roll exactly as if you completed the game."

But it didn't have a pop-up box directly telling you the opposite.

If you assume that the pop-up was a lie or a trick, then you're saying that instead of creating an actual ending Bioware instead spent their time on a 'trick' ending that breaks the fourth wall to trick the player.

Why would they do this?

If this were real, the 'surprise' is ruined. The fan backlash is monumental, and there is even media backlash against Bioware and EA because of this. If they really did have an ace up their sleeve - a 'real' ending - someone would've spoken.

The fact that haven't implies one of two things. Firstly, that they didn't have time to create the 'real' ending and instead spent the time they could've spent on the real ending on a fake ending, when instead they could've just made the real ending. This is obviously not the case.

Or secondly, that they never planned on making a 'real' ending because the endings of ME3 are just that - the endings. There is no elaborate trick building up to what is essentially a late April Fools joke - the endings simply are what they are. This is backed up what the game tells you  - that the Reaper threat has been ended - and simple business knowledge - no company would go through this level of backlash for the sake of 'suprising' their customers. Its utterly illogical.

They ARE going through the backlash though, by NOT changing the ending, just "clarifying and adding extended scenes (Shpeard Alive scene) to add insight to the conclusion of Commander Shepards Journey"

It's an advert for DLC, it's not actuallt contained in the lore and should be disreegarded, just like messages that tell you to play again on a harder difficulty.

[dreman9999]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Also the reapers say they only choose organics that are worthy for ascension, so harvesters are actually proof of his lies.

Ascension means turning a race into a Reaper. The harvesters are husks. Massive difference.

No, they refer to bring the race to a better state of life. Before synthesis, it was making them to reapers. Now everyone is implanted. Not how they control Saren and TIM when they had reaper implants in them. You need to not why the reapers havest organics...It's to stop them from cause theur own distruaction and everyone elses destruation by make thing that can destroy them.. Now that everyone is implanted, they don't need to do it because they can control all life now...Like they did to Saren and TIM. You just made them gods.:innocent:

[balance5050]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Also the reapers say they only choose organics that are worthy for ascension, so harvesters are actually proof of his lies.

Ascension means turning a race into a Reaper. The harvesters are husks. Massive difference.

They are still killing a race for no other reason than too make them their slaves no?