434 réponses à ce sujet

[Blacklash93]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Occuli are pointless. They're fragile. Any craft with fighter back-up would destroy them, and most ships have some sort of defense against it. 

Fighters are pointless. They're fragile. Any Reaper ship with Occuli back-up would destroy them and all Reaper ships have a defense against them.

Sarcasm aside, my point is that fighters and occuli are probably on even ground and equally useful for their respective sides.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 12 mai 2012 - 07:33 .

[N7L4D]

Edit: Post removed.

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 13 mai 2012 - 03:30 .

[o Ventus]

Wulfram wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Citation required. 

http://social.biowar.../index/11762127

Has peoples best attempts to estimate them.  Estimates vary wildly, but the smallest estimates are around 200.  While total Council race Dreadnoughts add up to around 90.

Looking at the story told in the codex, we have "dozens" of capital class warships at Earth, while the Turians are getting trounced by "a seemingly endless line of Reaper ships".  Meanwhile, the entry on the Fall of Thessia talks of "the Reapers' greater numbers"

You're conveniently ignoring the fact that the Reapers consist of mroe than just Destroyers and Capital Ships. Never mind the harvest vehicles and slaughterhouses, or the remaining Collectors, or the innumerable ground forces.

Modifié par o Ventus, 12 mai 2012 - 07:28 .

[KingNothing125]

It's funny because in ME1 codex entries, the Humans were the ones who used clever tactics and outmaneuvered their enemies (that's how they "won" the initial confrontation in the First Contact War). Whereas the Turians usually go all Redcoat and just line up and file directly into the enemies weapons.

In fact, forget ME1. What about everything we know about Victus and his son? They're brilliant tacticians like this Coronati guy, but are frowned upon by the Heirarchy because they prefer to outmaneuver their enemies rather than engage them face to face, which is apparently standard operating procedure for Turians.

Sure seems like whoever wrote those Reaper War codex entries got their navy lore mixed up. Or they were just trying to make the turians sound like badasses, and make things sound more desperate for us (on that note, count the number of times an NPC says "taking heavy casualties" or "taking heavy losses"... it's a big number),

[2484Stryker]

Ned Starks Head wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

I used to like Hackett a lot before ME3. I hate what the crucible plot does to him.

And I still think that the protheans actively fighting for decades or centuries with the relay network down is a much better example of good chances for conventional victory, than anything in the codex.

This

This...make me sad...

What happened, BioWare??!!

[The Night Mammoth]

Blacklash93 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Occuli are pointless. They're fragile. Any craft with fighter back-up would destroy them, and most ships have some sort of defense against it. 

Fighters are pointless. They're fragile. Any Reaper ship with Occuli back-up would destroy them and all Reaper ships have a defense against them.

Sarcasm aside, my point is that fighters and occuli are probably on even ground and equally useful for their respective sides.

Sure. Carriers are useful because of being able to counter occuli and because they provide bombers, or their ME equivalent, to go with them. 

[JBPBRC]

2484Stryker wrote...

Ned Starks Head wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

I used to like Hackett a lot before ME3. I hate what the crucible plot does to him.

And I still think that the protheans actively fighting for decades or centuries with the relay network down is a much better example of good chances for conventional victory, than anything in the codex.

This

This...make me sad...

What happened, BioWare??!!

Not only did they last for centuries and not have a chance to unite, they also messed up the Reaper's plans for the next cycle. Its a shame that for all their accomplishments, the Protheans forgot to build Plot Armor.

[moater boat]

The Angry One wrote...


...conventional victory is made impossible due to terrible writing, not because the Reapers truly are unstoppable.

fixed it for you.

But in all seriousness I agree. Even if it wasn't possible, it would have been nice if the alliance had put up some sort of a fight.

[Tapkomet]

Shadrach 88 wrote...

This inconsistency really irks me. The codex specifically points out that a Reaper destroyer is matched by a small group of cruisers. It also says that a Reaper has to reduce its barriers in order to land on a planet.

Yet, the destroyer on Rannoch shrugs off the inital strike made by THE ENTIRE MIGRANT FLEET. Which is packing a mixture of weaponry ranging up to dreadnought scale mass accelerators on the liveships.

Seriously, the sequence was fantastically well done in terms of visuals, music and so on, but it makes zero sense.

How many times do I have to explain this?

Not entire migrant fleet - a few ships (cruisers or frigates? I guess cruisers)

AND with their broadside turrets (not main cannons)

AND they are firing in the atmosphere (about -20% impact)

AND no Thanix cannons (do Quarians have Thanix? Well, Council races do, and so do volus)

AND many of the shots miss (To be fair, it's possible that many of the shots in space miss, too)

AND they don't kill Shepard who is just a hundred meters away (imagine a dreadnought fire it's weapon. 3 Hiroshimas. Shepard, Tali, Legion, and The Squadmate would be vaporized).

[Skull Bearer]

o Ventus wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Citation required. 

http://social.biowar.../index/11762127

Has peoples best attempts to estimate them.  Estimates vary wildly, but the smallest estimates are around 200.  While total Council race Dreadnoughts add up to around 90.

Looking at the story told in the codex, we have "dozens" of capital class warships at Earth, while the Turians are getting trounced by "a seemingly endless line of Reaper ships".  Meanwhile, the entry on the Fall of Thessia talks of "the Reapers' greater numbers"

You're conveniently ignoring the fact that the Reapers consist of mroe than just Destroyers and Capital Ships. Never mind the harvest vehicles and slaughterhouses, or the remaining Collectors, or the innumerable ground forces.

There is also the question of replacements. How easy is it for reapers to replace lost destroyers/capital ships vs how hard is it for the Citadel fleet to do the same.

If it's one race per capital ship, then even if the Reapers won the war and Reaped everyone, it still wouldn't make up for the losses they suffered on Palaven alone.

[In Exile]

The Angry One wrote...
The whole thing with the humans is how fast they've adapted to galactic life in only a few decades.
They pushed back the Turians at Shanxi and have a fleet technologically on par with them, the Turians advanced in some areas and them in others.

After the Citadel fleet was crippled in ME1, the Alliance was said to have one of the strongest military forces in the galaxy, and now they get completely flattened in less than a day while the Turians hold out for far longer?
This isn't just a question of attrition.

Bioware changed why humans are special in ME2 (genetic slurpee), and refused to do the whole humans are special bit at all for ME3 (turians, apparently, really rock though).

[Geomon19]

Let's just call it what it is. Other than the ending, this is the second worst piece of writing in the entire trilogy.

Even that idiot Gerrel managed to do a better of job of keeping his fleets intact than Hackett and he was gung ho crazy.

[Ticonderoga117]

You know, I can handle the idea of the Alliance getting whooped at the start. But c'mon guys, can't you use some new tactics here and surprise the crap out of them? Divide and conquer. The Volus managed to lure a whole boatload of husks into a trap, surely you can lure a Reaper or two and rush it with heavy capital ship fire?

But lolno, superweapon away as it is our only chance as Hackett loves to spout.

[Rip504]

Doesn't Sovereign make a turn that would rip most Alliance ships in half? During ME1's playhtrough on Noveria as stated by Joker? So how would Alliance ships be able to move "turn" faster then Sovereign sized class Ships? Or am I mistaken on something?

Modifié par Rip504, 12 mai 2012 - 11:11 .

[E-Type XR]

ITT: Isn't hindsight a fantastic thing?

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Rip504 wrote...

Doesn't Sovereign make a turn that would rip most Alliance ships in half? During ME1's playhtrough on Noveria as stated by Joker? So how would Alliance ships be able to move "turn" faster then Sovereign sized class Ships? Or am I mistaken on something?

Read several pages above.

[Rip504]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Doesn't Sovereign make a turn that would rip most Alliance ships in half? During ME1's playhtrough on Noveria as stated by Joker? So how would Alliance ships be able to move "turn" faster then Sovereign sized class Ships? Or am I mistaken on something?

Read several pages above.

That would mean I would have to read other post...

[Chaoswind]

is in the codex

Reapers use mass effect to reduce their mass and turn faster, but that is impossible during combat (leaves them without barriers/shields and quite weakened to damage)

[soldo9149]

Wow I read this all before and somehow I just didn't think of it that way so +1 Internets to you The Angry One.

[Made Nightwing]

Turians have 40 dreadnaughts. Hackett had four, maybe five.

[The Angry One]

The silly argument I'm seeing over and over again is that the Turians had more dreadnoughts.

I am sick of repeating myself: Lack of dreadnoughts does not prevent the proper application of tactics, had Coronati not used proper tactics it wouldn't matter if the Turians had 100 dreadnoughts.

Again I'm not saying Hackett would've been victorious, I'm saying that by consolidating his forces he would've at least been able to save Arcturus Station in the short term and not lost two entire fleets.
Granted, this may also be the fault of the morons at the defense commitee, but the lack of any actual tactics in the battle is all Hackett.

E-Type XR wrote...

ITT: Isn't hindsight a fantastic thing?

So, what. Scouting the enemy's fleet composition before engaging is a fantastic new tactic?

Modifié par The Angry One, 13 mai 2012 - 01:37 .

[Chaoswind]

To be fair the only admiral the codex praises as a tactical genius is mikakobitsh sp? (that rude guy in mass effect 1) and he is dead in the only playthrough I managed to finish

[MetioricTest]

Hackett is like a 60 year old man

[TookYoCookies]

 Good OP Angry, always entertaining. And yes, Hackett/Every single Alliance Navy CO is incompetent. Shep included...
From the very beginning, when sheperd says:

Stop them? It's not about strategy or tactics, it's about survival!"

 


... As soon as Sheperd says that, and none of the "Defense Comitee" voices up to denounce that retarded remark, it was going downhill.... Regardless of how powerful, "God-like", smart, fear-less, and/or advanced the Reapers are; YOU ARE A SOLDIER! THIS IS THE MILITARY! IT'S F*CKING ALWAYS ABOUT STRATEGY AND TACTICS YOU F*CKING IDIOT!  EVEN IF WE DONT HAVE EXISTING 'PROTOCOLS' FOR FIGHTING SUCH A FOE, PANICKING ISNT GOING TO F*CKING HELP ANYONE!!! 

Seriously...... Now more than ever is it about Strategy and Tactics, our f*cking survival is at stake! We have to find a strategy that will be effective and tactics that will work against the Reapers! I'm assuming the "Defense Commitee" is like the ME equivalent to the Joint Chiefs of Staff, or NORAD... And Sheperd gets summoned just to say that f*cking nonsense? Such a f*cking joke. If there was any one on that committee that wasnt a complete idiot, they would've thrown his crazy ass back into house-arrest for saying that sh*t.

Such an exetremely contrived, and ludicrous plot point.