434 réponses à ce sujet

[MetioricTest]

You guys are reaching again

[Chaoswind]

So Hackett being a good politician makes him a good admiral? Lol whut?

Face it people, human alliance military command is ridiculous, the only species that ****ed their defence more than the humans are the Batarians and at least most of their leadership was indoctrinated and they got hit first.

Fact: Hackett had 6 months to get some sort of preparations.
Fact: Hackett fought sovereign so he had a rought idea of what was coming.
Fact: alliance command had a little over a week of confirmed hostiles destroying Batarian space (and again Hackett knew about the reapers).

Fact: Humans response to the early warnings is to spread their fleets, and waste their time playing mmo.

People it wasn't a cheap shot, Hackett had 6 months, and THE WHOLE of alliance command had over a week, yet they ask Shepard's opinion 5 minutes before **** hits the fan... And you people dare to defend this much fail?

[TookYoCookies]

MetioricTest wrote...

But what makes no sense is if Hackett is indoctrinated why not get the entire Alliance fleet wiped out?

 


Hackett's stupidity(incompetence) goes both ways. 

What did Forest Gump say(?): "Stupid is as Stupid does." 

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

... apparently they defending his actions because he estimated (translation: admitted) that he could not win right from the start, and ran away ("to fight another day"). ...Wait, what?

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 13 mai 2012 - 03:48 .

[MetioricTest]

Fact: Hackett had 6 months to get some sort of preparations.

But still people didn't take the Reaper's seriously. Even Anderson tells you this.

Fact: Hackett fought sovereign so he had a rought idea of what was coming.

And to use your own speculation this is why half the fleet survived instead of everyone dying.

Fact: alliance command had a little over a week of confirmed hostiles destroying Batarian space (and again Hackett knew about the reapers).

Fact: Humans response to the early warnings is to spread their fleets, and waste their time playing mmo.

That still doesn't mean when the Reapers turned up they were expected. They knew the Reapers were coming but not when.

Reapers came in guns blazing and pewpewed the fleet. For Turians they came in guns blazing and pewpewed the Reapers.

It's two very different situations.

People it wasn't a cheap shot, Hackett had 6 months, and THE WHOLE of alliance command had over a week, yet they ask Shepard's opinion 5 minutes before **** hits the fan... And you people dare to defend this much fail?

Hacket didn't ask Shepard anything. The defense command did and the fact you're using the fact they suck balls as an argument defends Hackett quite a lot.

[The Angry One]

MetioricTest wrote...

You guys are reaching again

It's speculation to attempt to make sense of character actions and motivations that appear extremely bizarre and illogical if taken at face value. Of course it's reaching.
Otherwise we're just left with my initial assessment, Hackett shouldn't be allowed to lead a parade, let alone a fleet.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Hackett got positive on invasion start in Batarian space right from Shepard during Arrival (and its him, who he sent Shepard to do it in the first place). Don't you remember?

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 13 mai 2012 - 03:53 .

[Dutch105]

I take it you don't get bored of the constant nitpicking?

Hackett has barely any time to prepare. He is bound by his superiors (i.e. the Defence Committee), limiting what he can do. He only goes rogue once the Reapers hit and kill the Committee.

Unlike the Turians, not every city on Earth begins a combined resistance because not every citizen on Earth goes through compulsory military training or has the same discipline as the Turians. The Turians also get some more warning in the form the Garrus going to the Primarch (unless he's dead) and the Reapers hitting Khar'shan and Earth first.

Anyway, Hackett accepts his incompetence:

"I've just presided over the worst military defeat in human history"

[TookYoCookies]

The Angry One wrote...


It's speculation to attempt to make sense of character actions and motivations that appear extremely bizarre and illogical if taken at face value. Of course it's reaching.
Otherwise we're just left with my initial assessment, Hackett shouldn't be allowed to lead a parade, let alone a fleet.

 

QFT

[feliciano2040]

jeweledleah wrote...

honestly, pretty much EVERYONE in ME3 is incompetent, including Shepard. they do ridiculous stupid, unreasonable stuff, because writers wanted to advance the plot in a certain direction, but couldn't be bothered to make it plausible. the more I try to analyze the game scene by scene, the worse it gets.

What, in the name of all that is holy, are you doing in this forum then ?

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Dutch105 wrote...

I take it you don't get bored of the constant nitpicking?

Hackett has barely any time to prepare. He is bound by his superiors (i.e. the Defence Committee), limiting what he can do. He only goes rogue once the Reapers hit and kill the Committee.

Unlike the Turians, not every city on Earth begins a combined resistance because not every citizen on Earth goes through compulsory military training or has the same discipline as the Turians. The Turians also get some more warning in the form the Garrus going to the Primarch (unless he's dead) and the Reapers hitting Khar'shan and Earth first.

Anyway, Hackett accepts his incompetence:

"I've just presided over the worst military defeat in human history"

Could you also explain why did he let Reapers to Earth without even warning anybody? He had a lot of ships with QeCs
"Why didn't we hear from Admiral Hackett??"

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 13 mai 2012 - 03:54 .

[The Angry One]

MetioricTest wrote...

But still people didn't take the Reaper's seriously. Even Anderson tells you this.

What, so Hackett didn't either? That what you're saying?

And to use your own speculation this is why half the fleet survived instead of everyone dying.

So why were there fleets stationed at Eden Prime and Terra Nova?
Did they think this war would be won over who controls a couple of low population garden worlds?

That still doesn't mean when the Reapers turned up they were expected. They knew the Reapers were coming but not when.

That's an excuse for being unprepared how?

Reapers came in guns blazing and pewpewed the fleet. For Turians they came in guns blazing and pewpewed the Reapers.

It's two very different situations.

Do you even read responses to your posts, or are you that scared they might counter your arguments?

Once again. The Turians used DRONES TO SCOUT THE ENEMY FLEET WHEN THEY ARRIVED AT THE RELAY.
WHY could the Alliance not do this?

Hacket didn't ask Shepard anything. The defense command did and the fact you're using the fact they suck balls as an argument defends Hackett quite a lot.

Hackett has a lot of pull in the Alliance, why didn't he get Shepard out earlier?

[MetioricTest]

The Angry One wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

You guys are reaching again

It's speculation to attempt to make sense of character actions and motivations that appear extremely bizarre and illogical if taken at face value. Of course it's reaching.
Otherwise we're just left with my initial assessment, Hackett shouldn't be allowed to lead a parade, let alone a fleet.

But it's not bizarre and illogical unless you plain make things up.

You turn "Hacket lost a battle against the Reapers" into "16 Reapers turned up and easily killed everyone without a scratch while elsewhere Turians turned up and killed 10 reapers without being touched and left fine. Oh and the stuff about Turians getting their ass kicked in space by Reapers doesn't matter and the praising and trust in Hackett doesn't matter."

It's all fiction.

[The Angry One]

Dutch105 wrote...

Anyway, Hackett accepts his incompetence:

"I've just presided over the worst military defeat in human history"

He's blaming the Reapers for that, not himself.
If he had accepted it, he would've stepped down.

[The Angry One]

MetioricTest wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

You guys are reaching again

It's speculation to attempt to make sense of character actions and motivations that appear extremely bizarre and illogical if taken at face value. Of course it's reaching.
Otherwise we're just left with my initial assessment, Hackett shouldn't be allowed to lead a parade, let alone a fleet.

But it's not bizarre and illogical unless you plain make things up.

You turn "Hacket lost a battle against the Reapers" into "16 Reapers turned up and easily killed everyone without a scratch while elsewhere Turians turned up and killed 10 reapers without being touched and left fine. Oh and the stuff about Turians getting their ass kicked in space by Reapers doesn't matter and the praising and trust in Hackett doesn't matter."

It's all fiction.

No, you just refuse to read my responses. In fact, I'm not sure why I'm typing this since you'll just ignore it and keep repeating things I've refuted 5 times. Therefore, bladi blah blah.

[Zolt51]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...
Also you know, other people around him will get suspicious if he start doing this stuff? So he will be removed from command and most likely the whole plan will be found out.
So he had to stay inconspicious enough.
Also its very probable that Reapers needed Shepard to build and activate crucible.

Yes, they needed Shepard to build and activate the Crucible, so that they could all be destroyed. Great plan! Fantastic.

Call Hackett incompetent all you want, in the end he's the guy under whose command the Reapers get defeated. And I don't think anyone's done that in.. oh, a billion years or so? Not bad for an incompetent.

Modifié par Zolt51, 13 mai 2012 - 04:00 .

[Zolt51]

The Angry One wrote...
No, you just refuse to read my responses. In fact, I'm not sure why I'm typing this since you'll just ignore it and keep repeating things I've refuted 5 times. Therefore, bladi blah blah.

I'm afraid I can't help you with that. I have no idea why you are typing this either.

[The Angry One]

Zolt51 wrote...

Call Hackett incompetent all you want, in the end he's the guy under whose command the Reapers get defeated. And I don't think anyone's done that in.. oh, a billion years or so? Not bad for an incompetent.

Partly due to the fact that the only ones using even stupider tactics than Hackett are the Reapers themselves, and partly due to deus ex machina.
The actual military tactics used in the battle were, again, laughable. In fact the only way the tactics make any sense at all is if Hackett was actively trying to get as much of his own fleet killed as possible.

Modifié par The Angry One, 13 mai 2012 - 04:02 .

[MetioricTest]

[quote]What, so Hackett didn't either? That what you're saying?[/quote]

No I'm saying Hackett was dealing with people who didn't. By the time the Reapers hit Earth the Turians weren't.

[quote]So why were there fleets stationed at Eden Prime and Terra Nova?
Did they think this war would be won over who controls a couple of low population garden worlds?[/quote]

Assumably yes. He was probably told that he had to defend everything by people who underestimated The Reapers.  See above.

[quote]That's an excuse for being unprepared how?[/quote]

You can't see the difference between a force jumping out and attacking you v.s you jumping out and attacking them?

Reapers burst through the relay one day and already have hit the fleet with 20 superbeams before the fleet can fight back.

When Turians went in first they charged the Reapers and hit them 20 times before they got the superbeams going.

[qupte]Once again. The Turians used DRONES TO SCOUT THE ENEMY FLEET WHEN THEY ARRIVED AT THE RELAY.
WHY could the Alliance not do this?[/quote]

Because after Arrival the Reapers were on the otherside of the universe heading towards a far-away relay at FTL speeds so they could reach Earth. But when they hit Earth they could be scouted.

I don't see how the scouts drones could have found the Reapers in time unless they Reapers were here.

[quote]Hackett has a lot of pull in the Alliance, why didn't he get Shepard out earlier?[/quote]

I think you're overestimating "an Admiral." his relationship with Shepard + the the way he reinstates you + his relationship with Anderson and what you've all been through demonstrate that he is clearly on your side. He probably did use his pull to try and get you out. But everyone else said "No that idiot worked for Ceberus I don't trust him." and it stayed like that until the Reapers turned up.

Hackett isn't president of Earth. He's just a guy. He even warns you in arrival that he backs every action you take but you're going to have to face the music.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Zolt51 wrote...
Yes, they needed Shepard to build and activate the Crucible, so that they could all be destroyed. Great plan! Fantastic.

Well, they did even tell Shepard in the end how to use it to destroy them if he chooses so. So looks like it was all merely part of "ways we allow you to evolve along".

[MetioricTest]

The Angry One wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

Call Hackett incompetent all you want, in the end he's the guy under whose command the Reapers get defeated. And I don't think anyone's done that in.. oh, a billion years or so? Not bad for an incompetent.

Partly due to the fact that the only ones using even stupider tactics than Hackett are the Reapers themselves, and partly due to deus ex machina.
The actual military tactics used in the battle were, again, laughable. In fact the only way the tactics make any sense at all is if Hackett was actively trying to get as much of his own fleet killed as possible.

By saving half of it?

[WandererRTF]

I don't see how those goals are impossible. He could have chosen which is more important and run with it, but he fails to even remotely achieve any of them.

He does save most of the fleets. So he clearly succeeded in the protecting his assets.

Then don't try to stop them from reaching the target. Let them get there, and then deal with the problem. There was no way a single fleet or even two would have been able to stop a Reaper invasion force of such size, but Hackett tries to anyway, and goes about it in the worst way possible: by splitting his forces up into ineffectual chunks.

Hackett committed those fleets knowing from the start that they would be wiped out (hinted in dialogue). They were there to distract the Reapers and to buy time for the rest of the military assets to withdraw. And how exactly 'deal with the problem'?

Of the five fleets he had, two were lost and none of the rest got out without significant losses. The Turians were already under attack within a few days, maybe even simultaneously. They Turians were warned by Garrus, and were at least prepared for it.

Turians made show of being prepared for it - they did not actually do much. As understood what is stated in the codex Turians had their forces dispersed. They did not have all their eggs in a single basket like humans did.

Don't know about relay jumps, but logistics are are irrelevant in an initial attack.

Actually they are not. Without need for logistics there was no 'second line' forces for Alliance to target, no weak spots to exploit. Furthermore it meant that unlike normal fleets with actually need to take time before proceeding after a relay jump Reapers did not, they could move at far greater rate than what any of Citadel/Allince ships could. Which - again - means that Reapers could jump in far sooner than any one could ever have expected any one to be able to do. It is kinda difficult to prepare against enemy capabilities that you are not aware of.

They weren't. Hackett knew what was coming. If they were indeed surprised then it is his fault as head of the fleet, who had six months warning.

Head of the fleet can't declare state of emergency or a war in a situation where effective (political) leadership still exists. In other words Hackett - just like rest of Alliance military - is bound by red tape. After all Alliance was not a dictatorship.

Tried to after he was already engaged. He shouldn't have ended up in that position. And failed, leaving the Alliance government and 45,000 people to die.

If he had tried end result would in all likehood have been 45,000 people dead + all the fleets dead as well. Would that be better result? At least he salvaged what he could.

Then don't do that. My god, that's the point. Conventional tactics largely don't work, so don't use conventional tactics, like Coronati.

How exactly could he have done any of that? By the time Reapers arrived fleets were not ready. He did what he could, salvaged as much of the fleets as possible so that they could apply the non-conventional tactics when it would actually be possible to do so.

[Chaoswind]

But Hackett didn't do ****, even my mom was evacuating colonies while Hackett was playing with his legos instead of his toy soldiers....

Hackett is a terrible admiral and leader, Hannah Shepard's did a lot more and she didn't even have a voice cameo...

[The Angry One]

MetioricTest wrote...

No I'm saying Hackett was dealing with people who didn't. By the time the Reapers hit Earth the Turians weren't.

Oh please, the Turians were paying lip service to Garrus, he made some changes and preparations but they weren't taking it seriously either.
Are you saying that Garrus had more influence over the Turians, than Hackett over the Alliance?

Assumably yes. He was probably told that he had to defend everything by people who underestimated The Reapers.  See above.

Even though the Alliance maintains a doctrine specifically against this kind of thinking?

You can't see the difference between a force jumping out and attacking you v.s you jumping out and attacking them?

So why were they stationed at the relays?

Reapers burst through the relay one day and already have hit the fleet with 20 superbeams before the fleet can fight back.

So. Why. Were. They. At. The. Relay?

When Turians went in first they charged the Reapers and hit them 20 times before they got the superbeams going.

Because they weren't waiting at the relay. Do you see where this is going?

Because after Arrival the Reapers were on the otherside of the universe heading towards a far-away relay at FTL speeds so they could reach Earth. But when they hit Earth they could be scouted.

I don't see how the scouts drones could have found the Reapers in time unless they Reapers were here.

LOL. Coronati used carriers to deploy scout drones when the Reapers arrived at the Turian relay. He scouted them there. The Alliance could've done this also.

I think you're overestimating "an Admiral." his relationship with Shepard + the the way he reinstates you + his relationship with Anderson and what you've all been through demonstrate that he is clearly on your side. He probably did use his pull to try and get you out. But everyone else said "No that idiot worked for Ceberus I don't trust him." and it stayed like that until the Reapers turned up.

Hackett isn't president of Earth. He's just a guy. He even warns you in arrival that he backs every action you take but you're going to have to face the music.

Who said anything about getting Shepard out? How about getting Shepard as an advisor under the pretense of interrogation? How about doing it when the Batarians went dark? 

[Dutch105]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

Dutch105 wrote...

I take it you don't get bored of the constant nitpicking?

Hackett has barely any time to prepare. He is bound by his superiors (i.e. the Defence Committee), limiting what he can do. He only goes rogue once the Reapers hit and kill the Committee.

Unlike the Turians, not every city on Earth begins a combined resistance because not every citizen on Earth goes through compulsory military training or has the same discipline as the Turians. The Turians also get some more warning in the form the Garrus going to the Primarch (unless he's dead) and the Reapers hitting Khar'shan and Earth first.

Anyway, Hackett accepts his incompetence:

"I've just presided over the worst military defeat in human history"

Could you also explain why did he let Reapers to Earth without even warning anybody? He had a lot of ships with QeCs
"Why didn't we hear from Admiral Hackett??"

I imagine he was somewhat busy at the time, losing most of his fleet.  He only breaks off to contact Shepard as he is fleeing.  He does warn the First Fleet, but it's too late.  The number of Reapers are just too many - they've all just swarmed from Khar'Shan.

Equally, conventional comms were down at that point, and not every facility on Earth has QeC even if the ships do.  Plus, the Earth Defence forces are all under different commands of their respective countries - even if a message like that got through, it might not have been passed to the correct people in all the confusion of what it means.  Not everyone has heard of/believes in the Reapers existing.

The Reapers are also pretty fast.  They bypass several systems to get to Earth quickly, and seem to travel faster than even Anderson expects ("The moon? They couldn't be that close already")

So yeah, Hackett makes mistakes.  But since none of his immediate superiors are alive, he has to take command.