434 réponses à ce sujet

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Dutch105 wrote...
So yeah, Hackett makes mistakes.  But since none of his immediate superiors are alive, he has to take command.

Shame, because it appears that he was not the best man to take command (as Coronati's example shows).
Hackett should've stayed in engineering branch of the military. Or blackops maybe.

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 13 mai 2012 - 04:13 .

[The Angry One]

MetioricTest wrote...

By saving half of it?

I was speaking of the final battle, where Hackett uses Napoleonic fleet wall tactics, fires randomly in Earth's direction and provides nice juicy targets for the Reapers.

But speaking of Arcturus, riddle me this. Why was the Admiral of the first fleet able to save half of it, alone, despite facing an endless stream of Reapers at the Charon relay yet Hackett, with 3 fleets, had to sacrifice one entire fleet and lose several elements of the other two while facing "over a dozen" capital ships?

It doesn't add up.

[Dutch105]

The Angry One wrote...

Dutch105 wrote...

Anyway, Hackett accepts his incompetence:

"I've just presided over the worst military defeat in human history"

He's blaming the Reapers for that, not himself.
If he had accepted it, he would've stepped down.

I think there's some regret there as well, but I may be wrong.

He can't step down.  He's the head of the Alliance Fleet, and his immediate superiors are all dead.  He leaves, there's a power vacuum, and more chance of the fleets disintegrating and the Crucible not getting built.

Perhaps afterwards he retires.  But he can't leave at that point without leaving everyone in the lurch.  Shepard is busy, Anderson is on Earth.  There are some good replacements down the chain of command no doubt, but if he chooses one, doesn't he taint that person with his own incompetence (if you believe him to be incompetent)?  Will everyone accept who he chooses?  If they don't.... bad times.  It's not a risk worth taking.

[Chaoswind]

Love the angry one.

Why where they at the relay?

Truer words cannot be said.

Also the alliance military doctrine states that they never spread their forces, they wait reports from their scouts and then send sufficient ships for the counter attack...

Again everything at the start of ME3 isn't lore friendly... Heck isn't even logic friendly...

[MetioricTest]

Oh please, the Turians were paying lip service to Garrus, he made some changes and preparations but they weren't taking it seriously either.
Are you saying that Garrus had more influence over the Turians, than Hackett over the Alliance?

No I'm saying when Reaper's were making teapots out of human Flesh in the middle of London all the Council Races couldn't keep the denial going.

The Reaper denial was a huge huge aspect of all 3 games and in ME3 once Earth goes down everyone just starts looking out for their own world. Earth was still in the stage of underestimating the Reapers when they turned up. Hackett knew better but he was following orders from and leading people who didn't know better.

So why were they stationed at the relays?

I don't know. Do you want me to make up a reason why then claim it's fact or are only you allowed to do that?

Best guess is the defense council refused to abandon the colonies and the station and told Hacket to protect everything. Hugely underestimating the Reapers.

Hackett presumably tried and failed to change their minds and in the end just decided to do the best he could to save whatever he could, like 60% of the fleet for example.

Hackett strongly implies he knew it was doomed.

LOL. Coronati used carriers to deploy scout drones when the Reapers arrived at the Turian relay. He scouted them there. The Alliance could've done this also.

No they couldn't because they didn't know where the Reapers were coming from. They couldn't just send drones out to find them as they would never get that info back. Again, Arrival DLC.

Who said anything about getting Shepard out? How about getting Shepard as an advisor under the pretense of interrogation? How about doing it when the Batarians went dark?

Using your own logic of "If it's never stated otherwise then we can make something up claim it's fact." who is to say this never happened?

[Dutch105]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

Dutch105 wrote...
So yeah, Hackett makes mistakes.  But since none of his immediate superiors are alive, he has to take command.

Shame, because it appears that he was not the best man to take command (as Coronati's example shows).
Hackett should've stayed in engineering branch of the military. Or blackops maybe.

He's a war hero, so has some proven track record.  One defeat does not make a man instantly incompetent.  Particularly against an enemy never encountered before using overwhelming forces (see General Williams, but people reacted in the same way as these boards!)

But yeah, he's made mistakes and maybe someone else would have been better.  But it's hard to choose new leaders when you're the remaining one at the top of tree, holding everyone together.

[JBPBRC]

The Angry One wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

By saving half of it?

I was speaking of the final battle, where Hackett uses Napoleonic fleet wall tactics, fires randomly in Earth's direction and provides nice juicy targets for the Reapers.

But speaking of Arcturus, riddle me this. Why was the Admiral of the first fleet able to save half of it, alone, despite facing an endless stream of Reapers at the Charon relay yet Hackett, with 3 fleets, had to sacrifice one entire fleet and lose several elements of the other two while facing "over a dozen" capital ships?

It doesn't add up.

I blame all of this on shoddy writing. Hackett is incompetent for the same reason that the Reapers digitally lobotomized themselves, Kai Leng's plot armor, and Shepard getting fatter after Arrival--a terrible script.

[Drake-Shepard]

i am actually really confused about Earth 'falling'.

Did Earth have any defensive cannons like the one on Horizon? Surely this would be a good place to battle reapers. The reapers would then have to worry about alliance fleet AND defensive cannons.
If not why not arghh.

And i don't understand how the reapers could physically land on earth without any warning?? That is terrible. Did the reapers 'jam' transmissions?

Was anything explained in detail apart from ' they surprised us at the relay or station so we ran away'...to fill in these holes in logic

Modifié par Drake-Shepard, 13 mai 2012 - 04:28 .

[Chaoswind]

The turians had all their forces in orbit of their colonies and palaven, and had the relay exit points full of unmanned drones... Tactics and common sense!!!

The humans had their fleet parked at the relay exit points... RETARDS...

[Dutch105]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

i am actually really confused about Earth 'falling'.

Did Earth have any defensive cannons like the one on Horizon? Surely this would be a good place to battle reapers. The reapers would then have to worry about alliance fleet AND defensive cannons.
If not why not arghh.

And i don't understand how the reapers could physically land on earth without any warning?? That is terrible. Did the reapers 'jam' transmissions?

Was anything explained in detail apart from ' they surprised us at the relay or station so we ran away'...to fill in these holes in logic

No.  Earth is not a small colony in the back end of the Terminus systems.  Be pretty expensive to put low range defensive cannons in every city, when the prospect of an entire home world being attacked is minimal.

Yes.  See several responses above.

Yes.

Modifié par Dutch105, 13 mai 2012 - 04:34 .

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

i am actually really confused about Earth 'falling'.

Did Earth have any defensive cannons like the one on Horizon? Surely this would be a good place to battle reapers. The reapers would then have to worry about alliance fleet AND defensive cannons.
If not why not arghh.

It looks like the majority of Earth populace are quite "soft around the edges". I mean, heck, if their defense commitee is like that - what to speak for rest of the people. I wouldn't be surprised even if there are no planetary defenses (waste of money, fleet will protect us).
I would guess colonists are a lot more hardened, leaving in not so sheltered evironments with slavers raids and such...

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 13 mai 2012 - 04:32 .

[filetemo]

I know it is not the right place to say it (the forum of the best storytelling rpg developer nowadays), but:

You shouldn't take the Codex that seriously. There, I said it. It's meant as flavor text, every part is to make you feel certain things. Despair, in the case of Hackett's defeat. Hope, in the case of the Turian resistance.

"But it is inconsistent" I hear you say. Yes, well, it is.But it is what it is.

[Dutch105]

Chaoswind wrote...



The turians had all their forces in orbit of their colonies and palaven, and had the relay exit points full of unmanned drones... Tactics and common sense!!!

The humans had their fleet parked at the relay exit points... RETARDS...

They had warnings before the invasion, and a Primarch who listened to them (at least partially).

They also had the example of Earth being trashed to adapt their tactics.  Humanity didn't.

Blockading a relay is a standard tactic.  Doesn't work when the forces coming through it are massive.

[WandererRTF]

Also the alliance military doctrine states that they never spread their forces, they wait reports from their scouts and then send sufficient ships for the counter attack...

Yes. Which works quite fine if the enemy does not bypass every defense you had constructed further away and strike directly at the Alliance fleet in strength in such a speed that there is no warning. Which as it happens is exactly what the Reapers did.

Modifié par WandererRTF, 13 mai 2012 - 04:37 .

[Zolt51]

Chaoswind wrote...



The turians had all their forces in orbit of their colonies and palaven, and had the relay exit points full of unmanned drones... Tactics and common sense!!!

The humans had their fleet parked at the relay exit points... RETARDS...

Yeahh... spoken like one of the great military minds of our time.

Blockading the relay exit points with massed firepower actually sounds better to me than spreading our your fleet thin across a dozen colonies. At least vs any kind of normal enemy that would be the best strategy.

Explanation for why so much of the first fleet survived? They just turned tail and ran, most likely. Pretty much the only way they could have survived. The admiral in charge must have judged more "prudent" to regroup with other fleets and counterattack later.

What's interesting is that neither of the Fleets managed to send advance warning to Earth, despite the fight that all of their ships are equipped with FTL drives.

Modifié par Zolt51, 13 mai 2012 - 04:41 .

[WandererRTF]

What's interesting is that neither of the Fleets managed to send advance warning to Earth, despite the fight that all of their ships are equipped with FTL drives.

Coincidentally so are the Reapers. And they actually have even faster drives.

[Deltakarma]

Dont see the need to complain, its art.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

They have quantum entanglement communicators, which allow faster-then-light communication.
And don't tell me that they were "too busy" (of doing what, running away?), or "they've sent the warning message, but it was lost on the desk somewhere" - if this is not incompetence, what is? In any proper military, people should court-martialed for **** like this.

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 13 mai 2012 - 04:53 .

[Chaoswind]

Zolt51 wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...



The turians had all their forces in orbit of their colonies and palaven, and had the relay exit points full of unmanned drones... Tactics and common sense!!!

The humans had their fleet parked at the relay exit points... RETARDS...

Yeahh... spoken like one of the great military minds of our time.

Blockading the relay exit points with massed firepower actually sounds better to me than spreading our your fleet thin across a dozen colonies. At least vs any kind of normal enemy that would be the best strategy.

Explanation for why so much of the first fleet survived? They just turned tail and ran, most likely. Pretty much the only way they could have survived. The admiral in charge must have judged more "prudent" to regroup with other fleets and counterattack later.

What's interesting is that neither of the Fleets managed to send advance warning to Earth, despite the fight that all of their ships are equipped with FTL drives.

Lore fail on your side.

there is always drift when you exit a relay so blockades are useless, you blockade relays so people can't get in, not to get those that come out, in reality the fleet that was blockading thee relay probably got swarmed by the reapers that appeared in all directions.

So you see taking that into account blockading the relay was indeed retarded...

Next 

Sorry for the terrible English as is me second lenguage and don't practice as much anymore.

[Drake-Shepard]

Dutch105 wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

i am actually really confused about Earth 'falling'.

Did Earth have any defensive cannons like the one on Horizon? Surely this would be a good place to battle reapers. The reapers would then have to worry about alliance fleet AND defensive cannons.
If not why not arghh.

And i don't understand how the reapers could physically land on earth without any warning?? That is terrible. Did the reapers 'jam' transmissions?

Was anything explained in detail apart from ' they surprised us at the relay or station so we ran away'...to fill in these holes in logic

No.  Earth is not a small colony in the back end of the Terminus systems.  Be pretty expensive to put low range defensive cannons in every city, when the prospect of an entire home world being attacked is minimal.

Yes.  See several responses above.

Yes.

I wasn't expecting cannons in every city...just areas of importance...like the defence committee HQ? 

yes look above? reaper jamming devices? theres a lot to read i skimmed through a few pages and can;t find an answer!
Someone tell me how the reapers arrived without a warning signal going off!!!???

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Ok, can we build a stationary fortress in the vicinity of the relay? With lot of weapons facing "in all directions".
Or a minefield?
Even if there is a drift, there still should be localized area where they arrive.

[The Night Mammoth]

MetioricTest wrote...


Hackett being competent in a discussion about Hackett beign incompetent is irrelevant?

Hackett being competant when commanding fleets is the discussion.

Is Hackett commanding fleets in the above passage or is he just acting as a spokesperson?

Hackett helping the Turians build dreadnoughts in a discussion about the Turian fleets is irrelevant?

Erm...ok.

No, it's Hackett revealing the Alliance commitee doesn't care about Turians building more Dreadnoughts. Hackett isn't actually doing anything in the above passage except detaling the Alliance's stance on the matter. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 13 mai 2012 - 05:00 .

[The Night Mammoth]

WandererRTF wrote...

Also the alliance military doctrine states that they never spread their forces, they wait reports from their scouts and then send sufficient ships for the counter attack...

Yes. Which works quite fine if the enemy does not bypass every defense you had constructed further away and strike directly at the Alliance fleet in strength in such a speed that there is no warning. Which as it happens is exactly what the Reapers did.

Erecting useless defences is stupid positions despite having warning about the Reaper's coming is the point. 

[WandererRTF]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Erecting useless defences is stupid positions despite having warning about the Reaper's coming is the point

Where is it stated that they were warned? By all accounts they were taken by surprise, ie. attacked without warning.

EDIT: Sure, they were warned that Reapers would attack, eventually. They had no way of knowing that Reapers could move as swiftly as they did.

Modifié par WandererRTF, 13 mai 2012 - 05:03 .

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

WandererRTF wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Erecting useless defences is stupid positions despite having warning about the Reaper's coming is the point

Where is it stated that they were warned? By all accounts they were taken by surprise, ie. attacked without warning.

*facepalm*