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Admiral Hackett is incompetent.


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#26
The Angry One

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Hudathan wrote...

Coronati planned an ambush on the Reaper forces once the war had already begun and he knew when and where to attack in order to enjoy some success. It's not the same as the human fleet with fewer Dreadnaughts having to defend a position vital to the protection of their home planet against 'dozens more capital ships.' They are two completely different situations involving completely different forces that do not compare to one another.


The Alliance knew the Reapers were coming, they hit Batarian space first. Palaven was hit soon after Earth, this isn't an excuse.
Furthermore, the fewer dreadnoughts aren't an excuse for not even trying to fight the Reapers properly. Again, not a single capital ship downed. We know this because Hackett later complains that killing a Sovereign class Reaper takes several fleets (despite the fact that Sovereign had Geth help vs. unupgraded ships).

It didn't matter at the end of the day and they lost anyway?


Because the Reapers had the Citadel from the start, controlled the relays and had every possible advantage.

#27
Guest_IReuven_*

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Ned Starks Head wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

I used to like Hackett a lot before ME3. I hate what the crucible plot does to him.

And I still think that the protheans actively fighting for decades or centuries with the relay network down is a much better example of good chances for conventional victory, than anything in the codex.

This


I always disliked Hackett, I find it kind of irritating that being a goddman Spectre Alliance took away my ship, said to my crewmates to spred out, locked my Shep in.
Even in ME1 I was pissed when Hackett gave me orders after becoming a Spectre but then It was more like "You should do it, but You don't have to" ( side missions mostly ), in ME3 it's like... "This is an order Shepard, do what I told You to do."
Screw Alliance, these xenofobic jerks (also got pissed when reading ANN "news" on quarian fleet).

So yeah, Hackett appears to be a narrow-minded.

#28
The Angry One

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The Night Mammoth wrote...

Found it!

It's not as bad as I remember, but still pretty ridiculous. Here, bask in its glory - 

Third FleetStationed at Arcturus Station, the Third Fleet is headed by Admiral Nitesh Singh. When the Reapers came for the station in 2186, Singh had already pulled his command ship, the SSV Logan, back to an ideal firing position for its mass accelerator cannons. The dreadnought's guns managed to slow down a destroyer before it could demolish the Third Fleet, but Singh was forced to retreat in the face of overwhelming opposition from the Reapers.


LOL, "slow down"? According to multiple entries, a dreadnought would hull a Destroyer in a single shot.
Nice consistency here.

#29
Elyiia

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So a cruiser can take two shots from a Capital ship (this is the fastest you can make it through that scene, it survives the initial shot no matter what) but a single destroyer can cripple the Third Fleet?

#30
legion999

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The Night Mammoth wrote...

This kind of thing annoys me.

Do BioWare read what they put in this game more than once?

There's a part in the codex, I think it was about the fate of one of the human fleets not stationed around Arcaturus or Earth, maybe the seventh, where a single Destroyer class Reaper tears through the whole fleet, scattering it. 

Yeah, those things. The Reapers that you personally have a hand in killing four of. Those Reapers that require only a small sustained bombardment from three Quarian Frigates using their secondary cannons, to destroy, those Reapers that die in a single Thanix missile to the face. 

Clever, right?

Put Coronati in charge. The man understands that when you can't apparently defeat an enemy conventionally you start getting creative. 

That above is what really p*sses me off when they say the Reapers can't be defeated with normal tactics and ordinary weapons. 

It assume no one in the galaxy as a f*cking creative brain-cell in their head. Even the high0up supposed military bigshot geniuses like Hackett seem completely incapable. 


I think it was stated that the Admiral in charge of the third fleet used his flagship Dreadnought to slow down a Destroyer before it could demolish the Third fleet.

So yeah apparently Thanix missles are more powerful than WMDs and the Third fleet had no shields or weapons or crew for that matter.

EDIT: I got ninja'd.

Modifié par legion999, 12 mai 2012 - 01:13 .


#31
Ingvarr Stormbird

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Elyiia wrote...

So a cruiser can take two shots from a Capital ship (this is the fastest you can make it through that scene, it survives the initial shot no matter what) but a single destroyer can cripple the Third Fleet?

There were no writer's "Bible of Mass Effect", that's the problem. Each writer had own headcanon, and they just invented stuff as they wrote, often with poor communication it would seem...

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 12 mai 2012 - 01:12 .


#32
The Night Mammoth

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Hudathan wrote...

Show me where it says in game where we have enough ships and supplies to keep 'giving as good as we get' until all the Reapers in the galaxy are destroyed, regardless of tactics.


You don't need a direct statement to assume humanity, apparently living in a golden age with several of their fleets already stationed around a valuable and heavily defended space station near their home planet, can bring about the resources to at least put up a fight. 

Admiral Anderson manages to stay alive and hit back at the Reapers despite pretty much no support coming to him. 

Yeah, Coronati did a good job considering the circumstances but their home world was still lost at the end of the day. That's billions of lives locked down and huge amounts of resources/industry made unavailable. How long does this continue before new ships can no longer be constructed and crews trained to man them?


Palaven wasn't lost. 

To the point though: get creative. Standing in a line or running does nothing to further your goal of winning. 

There were plenty of exchanges between the U.S. and Iraqi army during the war that could be considered fair trades, didn't stop Iraq from losing conventionally over time against a superior force. The insurgency also claimed some success by inflicting casualties on the occupation, didn't change the fact that the U.S. chose to pull out when it did.


The Iraqi army was largely untrained with largely inferior weaponary and incapable commanders. They hit back when the professional military got involved, and that part was a minority compared the untrained civlians that composed the rest of the army.

I assume the Alliance has higher standards. And spaceships. 

#33
Titus Thongger

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Hackket has dat voice. who needs competence? :P

#34
Wulfram

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The Angry One wrote...

He also had several cruisers with thanix cannons, providing significant firepower.


Which would be countered by the Reaper Destroyers.  And the Turians had Thanix too.  Before the Alliance, indeed.

Moreover if he had consolidated his fleets at Arcturus he would've had more dreadnoughts.


I do find the initial deployment a bit questionable.  Wouldn't make much difference against the reapers.

And are you telling me that with proper tactics, 4 dreadnoughts wouldn't be able to take down ONE Sovereign? ONE?


4 dreadnoughts could likely take down a single, isolated Sovereign class.  Though I'd expect the reaper to be able to take down at least one of them in the process.

4 dreadnoughts against 12+ Sovereigns, I'd expect the reapers to be able to succeed without any casualties in capital ships.  And certainly any strategy which did manage to inflict such casualties would likely see all the Alliance dreadnoughts destroyed, for no strategic gains whatsoever.

#35
The Angry One

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Elyiia wrote...

So a cruiser can take two shots from a Capital ship (this is the fastest you can make it through that scene, it survives the initial shot no matter what) but a single destroyer can cripple the Third Fleet?


Perhaps it was a mistake and it should've said capital ship, but even a single capital ship would take a while to destroy a whole fleet, and that's assuming the fleet doesn't demolish it first.

#36
lillitheris

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The Night Mammoth wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

This kind of thing annoys me.

Do BioWare read what they put in this game more than once?

There's a part concerning a Reaper destroyer tearing through an entire human fleet.

Yes, one destroyer, those things that you kill four of, apparently tore through I think was the seventh fleet, or maybe the second. Those Reapers that it took three Quarian ships with a bit of sustained fire-power, frigates that weren't using their main guns, to kill. Those Reapers that are destroyed in one ground fired missile.


Seriously? Can't find an entry on this, but that's utterly ridiculous if true, Destroyers have cruiser level firepower at best.


Found it!

It's not as bad as I remember, but still pretty ridiculous. Here, bask in its glory - 

Third FleetStationed at Arcturus Station, the Third Fleet is headed by Admiral Nitesh Singh. When the Reapers came for the station in 2186, Singh had already pulled his command ship, the SSV Logan, back to an ideal firing position for its mass accelerator cannons. The dreadnought's guns managed to slow down a destroyer before it could demolish the Third Fleet, but Singh was forced to retreat in the face of overwhelming opposition from the Reapers.


Come now, you don’t have to be grasping straws like this to make your case. Trying to misinterpret that paragraph into something that it’s not rather invokes an image of a frothy-mouthed antagonist than a considered assessment of the situation.

#37
The Night Mammoth

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The Angry One wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Found it!

It's not as bad as I remember, but still pretty ridiculous. Here, bask in its glory - 

Third FleetStationed at Arcturus Station, the Third Fleet is headed by Admiral Nitesh Singh. When the Reapers came for the station in 2186, Singh had already pulled his command ship, the SSV Logan, back to an ideal firing position for its mass accelerator cannons. The dreadnought's guns managed to slow down a destroyer before it could demolish the Third Fleet, but Singh was forced to retreat in the face of overwhelming opposition from the Reapers.


LOL, "slow down"? According to multiple entries, a dreadnought would hull a Destroyer in a single shot.
Nice consistency here.


I don't get it. Are they just joking when they right this crap?

#38
The Night Mammoth

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lillitheris wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

This kind of thing annoys me.

Do BioWare read what they put in this game more than once?

There's a part concerning a Reaper destroyer tearing through an entire human fleet.

Yes, one destroyer, those things that you kill four of, apparently tore through I think was the seventh fleet, or maybe the second. Those Reapers that it took three Quarian ships with a bit of sustained fire-power, frigates that weren't using their main guns, to kill. Those Reapers that are destroyed in one ground fired missile.


Seriously? Can't find an entry on this, but that's utterly ridiculous if true, Destroyers have cruiser level firepower at best.


Found it!

It's not as bad as I remember, but still pretty ridiculous. Here, bask in its glory - 

Third FleetStationed at Arcturus Station, the Third Fleet is headed by Admiral Nitesh Singh. When the Reapers came for the station in 2186, Singh had already pulled his command ship, the SSV Logan, back to an ideal firing position for its mass accelerator cannons. The dreadnought's guns managed to slow down a destroyer before it could demolish the Third Fleet, but Singh was forced to retreat in the face of overwhelming opposition from the Reapers.


Come now, you don’t have to be grasping straws like this to make your case. Trying to misinterpret that paragraph into something that it’s not rather invokes an image of a frothy-mouthed antagonist than a considered assessment of the situation.


I'm not misinterpreting it anymore. I found it, and copy/pasted it, and said its not as bad as I remember. 

But it's still pretty ridiculous, that the only thing that stopped a single pitiful destroyer from tearing apart an entire fleet is the guns of a dreadnought, and this dreadnought mearly slowed it down. 

#39
lillitheris

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The Angry One wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

So a cruiser can take two shots from a Capital ship (this is the fastest you can make it through that scene, it survives the initial shot no matter what) but a single destroyer can cripple the Third Fleet?


Perhaps it was a mistake and it should've said capital ship, but even a single capital ship would take a while to destroy a whole fleet, and that's assuming the fleet doesn't demolish it first.


Rather obviously, they had to retreat before the rest of the ReaperS arrived.

#40
Elyiia

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The Angry One wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

So a cruiser can take two shots from a Capital ship (this is the fastest you can make it through that scene, it survives the initial shot no matter what) but a single destroyer can cripple the Third Fleet?


Perhaps it was a mistake and it should've said capital ship, but even a single capital ship would take a while to destroy a whole fleet, and that's assuming the fleet doesn't demolish it first.


All evidence says that even a Capital ship wouldn't have a chance against an entire fleet. Even one that lost 1/3 of it's strength in a battle it wasn't even involved in.

#41
Eain

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"Thats it?! That's our plan?!"

Consider that this fool likely graduated from the same academy as Hackett.

:P

#42
The Angry One

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Wulfram wrote...

Which would be countered by the Reaper Destroyers.  And the Turians had Thanix too.  Before the Alliance, indeed.


And Reaper destroyers could be taken out by frigates with thanix cannons.
(Because frigate + thanix = cruiser firepower, cruiser firepower > dead destroyer).

I do find the initial deployment a bit questionable.  Wouldn't make much difference against the reapers.

It would serve to repel the Reaper force at Arcturus and save Arcturus Station at least long enough to evacuate the Alliance leadership and as many of it's 45,000 people as possible.
Earth would be lost, but with 2 fleets guarding it in awkward places (stationed at the relay to get slaughtered, and spread around orbit of Earth to get picked apart one by one) that's going to happen anyway, with this tactic the Reapers suffer losses in their screening force and Hackett doesn't stupidly lose two whole fleets.

4 dreadnoughts could likely take down a single, isolated Sovereign class.  Though I'd expect the reaper to be able to take down at least one of them in the process.


Not so, because as pointed out in the Battle of Palaven entry and in the main Reaper entry, Sovereigns can't turn as fast as dreadnoughts, using FTL tactics they can shoot down a Sovereign and come out unscathed.

4 dreadnoughts against 12+ Sovereigns, I'd expect the reapers to be able to succeed without any casualties in capital ships.  And certainly any strategy which did manage to inflict such casualties would likely see all the Alliance dreadnoughts destroyed, for no strategic gains whatsoever.


Again, see proper tactics. The only reason Coronati lost any dreadnoughts (if he did at all) was because of Reaper reinforcements. It doesn't matter how many the Turians had, the point is they were able to outmaneuver whole Reaper fleets.

#43
The Angry One

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lillitheris wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

So a cruiser can take two shots from a Capital ship (this is the fastest you can make it through that scene, it survives the initial shot no matter what) but a single destroyer can cripple the Third Fleet?


Perhaps it was a mistake and it should've said capital ship, but even a single capital ship would take a while to destroy a whole fleet, and that's assuming the fleet doesn't demolish it first.


Rather obviously, they had to retreat before the rest of the ReaperS arrived.


The entry says before it (the Destroyer) could demolish the entire fleet.

#44
vixvicco

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I'll ignore his incompetence for his sexy voice. :P

#45
Ingvarr Stormbird

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The Angry One wrote...

The entry says before it (the Destroyer) could demolish the entire fleet.

I wonder if that's because they were not, *ahem*, in battle-worthy condition (Hackett I am looking at you).
Will make perfect sense if they were caught pants down, without even being able to fire back properly. Pearl Harbor anyone?

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 12 mai 2012 - 01:27 .


#46
Lonsecia

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lillitheris wrote...

Lonsecia wrote...
I also thought that as a specter I'd get less missions associated with humans and a generally more disparate selection of requests than I got.


ME3, Shepard is not a Spectre.

, though I wonder why it's always a human that reinstates our Specter status, and not one of the other council races.


…But it’s not.

Also: I hate having to use American spellings on every site all the time to avoid that evil red wavy line of evilness.

Set your spell checker to use en-GB?


I didn't say 'in ME3' I said that 'as a spectre'. I meant throughout the series, and especially the first game. Half the time I did a quest it was through the alliance, and my own ability to chase down a lead never really felt like a part of the story. As a spectre I was supposed to be able to do this.
I know Shep occasionally gets a quest from someone who isn't human, but it felt a little too sporadic, and often comepletely unrelated to the main story. It felt more or less as though Shep never stopped being -just- an N7, and that the spectre status was pretty much under-used. 

To expand upon this a little:
I would have liked to have had being a spectre affect certain missions. Instead you usually do things by the book with only the occasional interrupt or the paragon/Renegade choices. I'd have like to have seen my Shep using their status to get into secured areas where I could use alternative ways to deal with enemies. I never felt like there was much incentive to complete a goal any other way, besides killing everyone and/or talking when I was forced to. Considering Shep's options of class and background, it seems quite sad that combat is always cover-based, and never felt particularly flexible enough to allow for alternate routes. Being a Spectre, as well as a Vanguard (or whichever it was that used the sniper rifle most efficiently - I've forgotten) should have allowed me access to locked rooms that gave me a vantage point otherwise unreachable if I was simply a soldier/spectre, for example. Likewise it'd have been nice as an engineer to hack doors to resitrict the enemy movements, and affect turrets, sprinkler systems, or cause electrical overloads of half a room to cause a massive chain reaction. But I'm digressing into more how much further I'd have liked to see the combat system expand than anything else.

As for the reinstating, I don't recall anyone other than Udina granting us status except in the first game. My point was more that it never felt like my Shep had enough interaction with the council - especially in the first and third games (ME2 makes sense for our status to be limited). We were supposed to be under close scrutiny but all I ever felt was under the thumb of Udina, not the entire council. I would have liked to have had a more meaningful conflict with him, and depending on your path through the game, more heated debates with the council at various intervals.

And yeah, I could change the spell-chcker, but it seems broken, and it's more an annoyance than anything else (which is why my phrasing was not remotely serious).

#47
The Night Mammoth

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Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The entry says before it (the Destroyer) could demolish the entire fleet.

I wonder if its because they were not, *ahem*, in battle-worthy condition (Hackett I am looking at you).
Will make perfect sense if they were caught pants down, without even being able to fire back properly.



Two thirds of fleet, who were expecting the attack, do not get caught pants down by a single Destroyer. The very reason the SSV Logan started firing was because the Admiral anticpated it.

This fleet migh have taken some damage, but there's no way that single Reaper could have demolished it completely without being uttery destroyed, and that's without a Dreadnought gutting it with a couple of shots before it ever reaches that point.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 12 mai 2012 - 01:30 .


#48
lillitheris

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The Angry One wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

So a cruiser can take two shots from a Capital ship (this is the fastest you can make it through that scene, it survives the initial shot no matter what) but a single destroyer can cripple the Third Fleet?


Perhaps it was a mistake and it should've said capital ship, but even a single capital ship would take a while to destroy a whole fleet, and that's assuming the fleet doesn't demolish it first.


Rather obviously, they had to retreat before the rest of the ReaperS arrived.


The entry says before it (the Destroyer) could demolish the entire fleet.


The entry says, in particular: “…but Singh was forced to retreat in the face of overwhelming opposition from the Reapers.” Emphasis mine. So, a single ship was unable to wipe out the Third, and then a larger contingent forced retreat.

Like I said, you can make a perfectly fine case without resorting to frothy accusations. I assume.

#49
goofyomnivore

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I'm okay with the Turians putting up a much better fight. They've been space faring for 1000+ years. They're a military/honor driven society. They are the best non Reaper military in the galaxy. With space warfare in their blood for countless generations. While the humans have been on the scene for 50 years and have had only a handful of major space battles in their history.

Modifié par strive, 12 mai 2012 - 01:31 .


#50
Fixers0

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To be fair it's both the Result of generic, poorly desigined and inconsisted Reaper Tactics as well as general incompentence for the sake of plot reasoning on the Alliance's side, instead of sacrificing two fleets and heavilly damaging three others in glorious last stand, i would have rather locked down the Arcturus relay or retreated all my fleets to an Alliance staging ground, but that's poor writing for you.

Modifié par Fixers0, 12 mai 2012 - 01:38 .