549 réponses à ce sujet

[Lopez23]

Pandaman102 wrote...

napushenko wrote...

I dont have any problem with those number because they were on purely theoretical standpoint, and there was a repeating theme and dialogue in series about sacrificing people for numbers in war so it was cool for me. now i dont want to let my imagination run wild, but actually sorting those numbers and units on galaxy map and playing general in some sort of min turn based strategy would be great way to show us that our resources mattered. and ofcourse the ending itself. but they will deliver. i expect at least an expansion. patience is a virtue >(

In which case the war assets whould have been a completely separate thing, with your decisions dictating which fleets are available for your command and their loyalty (much like how compansions were at the end of ME2), and war assets as an "extra" that you can use to bolster specific fleets (and, as a result, not bolster other fleets) to improve their chances on whatever task you assign them to. That would have been a lot more true to the theme of "war by numbers", as those numbers would have an actual strategic value.

For example, you send the Turians to shield an Asari fleet on a mission to strike some Reaper target. Add more assets to the Turian fleet and they manage to pull through with minimum losses, but the Asari could only achieve partial success, add those assets to the Asari fleet instead and they achieve full success, but the Turian fleet suffers heavy losses. Something like that.

And it's true that patience is a virtue, but personally I wouldn't wait for something that hasn't been promised. Not that I trust any of Bioware's promises anymore.

thats what they actually had planned for the battle of earth in the leaked script...this isnt word for word but basicly
after they drop down a second reaper fleet appears in orbit and sheild moves in the defend
then you pick the assets to assign to the fleet and boom
its a shame that was dropped

[napushenko]

Lopez23 wrote...

Pandaman102 wrote...

napushenko wrote...

I dont have any problem with those number because they were on purely theoretical standpoint, and there was a repeating theme and dialogue in series about sacrificing people for numbers in war so it was cool for me. now i dont want to let my imagination run wild, but actually sorting those numbers and units on galaxy map and playing general in some sort of min turn based strategy would be great way to show us that our resources mattered. and ofcourse the ending itself. but they will deliver. i expect at least an expansion. patience is a virtue >(

In which case the war assets whould have been a completely separate thing, with your decisions dictating which fleets are available for your command and their loyalty (much like how compansions were at the end of ME2), and war assets as an "extra" that you can use to bolster specific fleets (and, as a result, not bolster other fleets) to improve their chances on whatever task you assign them to. That would have been a lot more true to the theme of "war by numbers", as those numbers would have an actual strategic value.

For example, you send the Turians to shield an Asari fleet on a mission to strike some Reaper target. Add more assets to the Turian fleet and they manage to pull through with minimum losses, but the Asari could only achieve partial success, add those assets to the Asari fleet instead and they achieve full success, but the Turian fleet suffers heavy losses. Something like that.

And it's true that patience is a virtue, but personally I wouldn't wait for something that hasn't been promised. Not that I trust any of Bioware's promises anymore.

thats what they actually had planned for the battle of earth in the leaked script...this isnt word for word but basicly
after they drop down a second reaper fleet appears in orbit and sheild moves in the defend
then you pick the assets to assign to the fleet and boom
its a shame that was dropped

this would be sooo great ! gdmn ! you both are actually making me to take down my rating for this game a notch !
must resist indoctrination. 

Modifié par napushenko, 17 mai 2012 - 01:27 .

[Pandaman102]

xsdob wrote...

So nobody's going to try and argue why mass effect 3 deserves the same score as mindjack?

I somewhat touched upon that. By itself it deserves a good score, but as a sum of the whole it fails to deliver on any of the promises.

A single number really isn't enough to express the difference between judging the game by itself and judging the game as a conclusion to a trilogy.

[Pandaman102]

Lopez23 wrote...

thats what they actually had planned for the battle of earth in the leaked script...this isnt word for word but basicly
after they drop down a second reaper fleet appears in orbit and sheild moves in the defend
then you pick the assets to assign to the fleet and boom
its a shame that was dropped

Never read the leaked script, but to the decision of dropping it I can only go

:|

[xsdob]

Pandaman102 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

So nobody's going to try and argue why mass effect 3 deserves the same score as mindjack?

I somewhat touched upon that. By itself it deserves a good score, but as a sum of the whole it fails to deliver on any of the promises.

A single number really isn't enough to express the difference between judging the game by itself and judging the game as a conclusion to a trilogy.

That's dumb in my opinion. A game or movie or book should stand on it's own and not rely on the franchise it came from as a prerequsite for judgement.

That's why I give a new hope so much crap, not because I think it's not a good star wars film, that's the phantom mencace and not because it's a star wars film, but because on it's own takes too long and is too streched out for it's own good. Phantom menace sucks as a stand alone film and so it deserves a low rating, judging it as part of the series leads to preposturous statements like "this is a death of a franchise" and "It raped my fandom", I really hate that one.

Probably not one to judge star wars or franchise reviewing though, I liked revenge of the sith and I think the clone wars television show is pretty damn good.

I can ****** off both mass effect and star wars fans at once and I don't even care, you guys can be way to judgemental sometimes in my opinion, and this is only my opinion.

Modifié par xsdob, 17 mai 2012 - 01:56 .

[Pandaman102]

xsdob wrote...

That's dumb in my opinion. A game or movie or series should stand on it's own and not rely on the franchise it came from as a prerequsite for judgement.

That's why I give a new hope so much crap, not just because it is the worst of the origianl triliogy, but because on it's own takes too long and is too streched out for it's own good.

Now, you included "series" in the things you think should stand on its own, but what is a trilogy but a short series? Mass Effect was a series that had an unsatisfying ending that was contrary to all promises made about it. The ratings against ME3 are judging it as the conclusion to the series. If you average out the score, Mass Effect overall still rates a respectable 7/10... unless people have been retroactively bombing the score of the previous two games.

[xsdob]

I might need to remove series from my post to get the point across better. Thank you for the feedback, and I do understand that look on reviewing the game, I just don't agree with it.

[Pandaman102]

xsdob wrote...

I might need to remove series from my post to get the point across better. Thank you for the feedback, and I do understand that look on reviewing the game, I just don't agree with it.

Fair enough, wouldn't disagree with you not agreeing with it. It's a relatively complicated situation to be judged just by some arbitrary number.

[Trebor1969]

napushenko wrote...

Trebor1969 wrote...

napushenko wrote...

Tremor, thats a fine post you wrote, some of things i agree with, some i dont, but im too tired to go point by point debate (maybe someone else will take the offer though)

Still.. just one question, if its not the trouble to rate ME 2 based on all points you wrote cause ME 3 did a whole lot of things better then ME 2.

Tremor or Trebor? :happy:

if Trebor and related to the lot's of bullet posts  here is my free add-on!

Me too, little bit tired as for ME2 and ME1,
for my part I would have to replay them since it has been long time I
played them, before trying to make some bad/wrong bullet spread sheet like
document for comparison with  ME3.

I guess as time passed, people mind have a way to make things greater than they really were. So I
would not be surprised if I remove some bullets and add some others to my previous post after replaying ME1 & ME2.

So yes, I'll replay them (waiting for the EC, just to see what will be inside, mainly curiosity now), then update/cut/increase my previous post. Might take some time though unless my boss allow me to play at work [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]  and after finish replaying Heavy Rain and finish writing the last scenario for my 2 years long Tabletop RPG campain as a Game Master ...

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sleeping.png[/smilie]

Sorry, i told you i was sleepy  

Would be nice if you do, at least from this ME 3 perspective and see what things you do actually like more. Admit it or not, we all have our nostalgy glasses on for some things.  I replayed ME 2 and finished it couple of hours before i started playing ME 3 so i was a bit surprised to see this much of disparitu between ratings when they both felt almost same to me, that is, almost equally great.

Except the ending and some plotholes,  but i cant blame that solely on ME 3 cause BW didnt resolve any plotpoint or fan wish in ME 2, they only added new question marks and new characters which we grew to love and it was too much for only one game to handle and give proper closure on all points. 

No problem,

I'll keep u posted of my rediscovering of ME1 & ME2

[SalsaDMA]

xsdob wrote...

So nobody's going to try and argue why mass effect 3 deserves the same score as mindjack?

You can't just be like this game that's okay deserves to be put in the same spot as one of the worst games of this decade.

That's like saying pirates of the carrabian 3 didn't really do it for me and I hated the ending, the rest of it was pretty decent though, so I'm going to give it the same score as birdemic, just because I feel like it.

It violates your duty as a reviewer and corrupts the legitimacy of the entire site, and speaks volumes about how very bias fans can be when talking about their personal feelings over actually unversally acceptable observations.

Lots of reasons have already been given both here and on metacritic for why people vote the way they do.

You choosing to ignore them doesn't make them non-existant.

If anything I am wondering why some people in here adamantly refuse to acknowledge things they don't like. It's like looking at old joke of an ostrich sticking its head in the ground, hoping that will somehow make "the bad things" go away...

Modifié par SalsaDMA, 17 mai 2012 - 11:20 .

[SalsaDMA]

xsdob wrote...

I might need to remove series from my post to get the point across better. Thank you for the feedback, and I do understand that look on reviewing the game, I just don't agree with it.

I thought the final episode of Battlestar galactiga was pants. On its own merit it might have been good (although I wouldn't know as I was too entvined in the series at that point having watched all seasons in a timeframe of less than a month), but as is, I saw it as the final of the series and in that regard I just thought it was awfull.

Same deal with ME3. It was the final episode of shepards story, and its treatment of its unique position was handled poorly in my opinion.

[napushenko]

SalsaDMA wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I might need to remove series from my post to get the point across better. Thank you for the feedback, and I do understand that look on reviewing the game, I just don't agree with it.

I thought the final episode of Battlestar galactiga was pants. On its own merit it might have been good (although I wouldn't know as I was too entvined in the series at that point having watched all seasons in a timeframe of less than a month), but as is, I saw it as the final of the series and in that regard I just thought it was awfull.

Same deal with ME3. It was the final episode of shepards story, and its treatment of its unique position was handled poorly in my opinion.

If last episode of Bs. Galactica  was 40 hours long and and only last 10 minutes of it were s hit , i wouldnt call whole episode s hit . 

Modifié par napushenko, 17 mai 2012 - 03:45 .

[Steffeomanno]

ME1 FTW!!

[abaris]

Pandaman102 wrote...

I somewhat touched upon that. By itself it deserves a good score, but as a sum of the whole it fails to deliver on any of the promises.

It obviously catered to a different audience than the first two games and that new kind of audience either isn't vocal enough or large enough to up the score. In any case that seems to be the only explanation why ME1 and 2 received splendid scores on Metacritic whilst ME3 tanked.

I always keep thinking that I wouldn't have been interested in that kind of a game as a standalone. I'm obviously not part of the audience they had in mind, but I was part of the audience for ME1 and 2.

They have tried to create a Jack of all Trades and after DA2 that's their second attempt. Both attempts have received abysmal user ratings compared to their respective predecessors.

[napushenko]

tell me that large and obvious difference between me 2 and me 3 please ?

and there is another explanation, troll infestation  unfortunately not only limited to this game, its spreading everywhere. 

Modifié par napushenko, 17 mai 2012 - 04:21 .

[SalsaDMA]

napushenko wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I might need to remove series from my post to get the point across better. Thank you for the feedback, and I do understand that look on reviewing the game, I just don't agree with it.

I thought the final episode of Battlestar galactiga was pants. On its own merit it might have been good (although I wouldn't know as I was too entvined in the series at that point having watched all seasons in a timeframe of less than a month), but as is, I saw it as the final of the series and in that regard I just thought it was awfull.

Same deal with ME3. It was the final episode of shepards story, and its treatment of its unique position was handled poorly in my opinion.

If last episode of Bs. Galactica  was 40 hours long and and only last 10 minutes of it were s hit , i wouldnt call whole episode s hit . 

For your info, The ending was but one of the problems of ME3 in my opinion.

The whole game was deeply marred by a poor plot, catering to the shootercrowd rather than the rpg crowd it claimed to embrace, worse graphics than ME2, a nonexistant quest journal and 'quests' that weren't so much quests as just another way to do ME2 probing. Add a control scheme that made me feel I actually wasn't in proper control of my character during fights, strictly linear corridor skirmishes and outright lies from devs prior to release on what kind of effects your actions in prior games would have on the game (claiming they could permutate in wildly divergent directions as compared to me2.. sure doesn't look like that...) and you have a giant stinker of a turkey. That's what ME3 felt like to me.

So your comment has no relevance in my comparison. In fact, I felt there was more good in final episode of BSG than in ME3, but I still felt let down by the final episode of BSG.

[napushenko]

SalsaDMA wrote...

napushenko wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I might need to remove series from my post to get the point across better. Thank you for the feedback, and I do understand that look on reviewing the game, I just don't agree with it.

I thought the final episode of Battlestar galactiga was pants. On its own merit it might have been good (although I wouldn't know as I was too entvined in the series at that point having watched all seasons in a timeframe of less than a month), but as is, I saw it as the final of the series and in that regard I just thought it was awfull.

Same deal with ME3. It was the final episode of shepards story, and its treatment of its unique position was handled poorly in my opinion.

If last episode of Bs. Galactica  was 40 hours long and and only last 10 minutes of it were s hit , i wouldnt call whole episode s hit . 

For your info, The ending was but one of the problems of ME3 in my opinion.

The whole game was deeply marred by a poor plot, catering to the shootercrowd rather than the rpg crowd it claimed to embrace, worse graphics than ME2, a nonexistant quest journal and 'quests' that weren't so much quests as just another way to do ME2 probing. Add a control scheme that made me feel I actually wasn't in proper control of my character during fights, strictly linear corridor skirmishes and outright lies from devs prior to release on what kind of effects your actions in prior games would have on the game (claiming they could permutate in wildly divergent directions as compared to me2.. sure doesn't look like that...) and you have a giant stinker of a turkey. That's what ME3 felt like to me.

So your comment has no relevance in my comparison. In fact, I felt there was more good in final episode of BSG than in ME3, but I still felt let down by the final episode of BSG.

and this is different from ME 2 .. how ? 

[napushenko]

except graphics. graphics are obviously better, you not liking them so much doesnt make them worse.

btw, can you remind what those choices in me 1 changed so wildly in me 2 ? 

Modifié par napushenko, 17 mai 2012 - 04:27 .

[abaris]

napushenko wrote...

tell me that large and obvious difference between me 2 and me 3 please ?

and there is another explanation, troll infestation  unfortunately not only limited to this game, its spreading everywhere. 

You, depending on your playstyle and preferences, might actually not notice.

But here goes:

Character customisation for combat purposes instead of character exposition through dialogue.

Textwalls of autodialogue with no player input.

Only being able to interact with squaddies and NPCs at certain keypoints, not when you feel like it.

A striclty linear game experience instead of being able to choose your own path. More or less the classic shooter level layout.

A dead galaxy with nothing to explore besides so called war assets and the occasional N7 mission.

And that's only scratching the surface and doesn't take the ending and the necessity of playing MP or fiddling with paid apps into account.

These differences have nothing to do with troll infestation, but they have everything to do with suddenly prawling for a new audience. The old audience is simply feeling the pain.

Modifié par abaris, 17 mai 2012 - 05:16 .

[Psycho0124]

napushenko wrote...


If someone says that the game is 3/10 just because. Hes trolling.
...

He would be wrong in any case if we are talking about objectivity and take in mind things such as graffics, storytelling, combat, voiceacting, soundtrack, animations, leveldesign, etc. but il leave those things to the pro reviewers. 

It's false to assert that the various aspects of the game should all be weighted equally for each reviewer.
That's the beauty of metacritic. It takes into account each individual players specific expectations of the game.

For those like you that play for graphics and multiplayer; a high rating is appropriate because you weight those aspects more strongly in your opinion.

For other folks, aspects like narrative, conclusion, and honesty in representation may be much more heavily weighted. With such severe, objective, quantifiable deficiencies in the narrative and pre-release representation of the product, combined with a large portion of the audience apparently playing specifically for that narrative and expecting to see the points promised, Mass Effect 3 deserves the over-all metacritic score it received.

I respect your opinion and am glad you were able to look past the shortcomings and enjoy the game.
You can continue to ignore these shortcomings if you like but please stop insulting others for their preferences.

The
world is full of fools and faint hearts; and yet everyone has courage
enough to bear the misfortunes, and wisdom enough to manage the affairs,
of his neighbor.  ~~Benjamin Franklin

[Zeroth Angel]

slyguy200 wrote...

Provided that the reviews are still 3.8, they need to be changes to 3.

And quit whining about how you think that it was only because of the ending, there were a lot more problems with ME3 than just the ending.

This!

I would give ME3 a 6-7 though.

[Wonderllama4]

User reviews are worth less than nothing