332 réponses à ce sujet

[EsterCloat]

Agugaboo wrote...

or dinosaurs,

And who doesn't like dinosaurs? Am I right or am I right?

[jijeebo]

Agugaboo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

elecmanexe001 wrote...

No where in IT does it suggest friends are indoctrinated.... and they spent far less time near Reapers then you did.

I mention IT specifically to make it clear that if Shepard can be indoctrinated, then his companions too. They have not been with him constantly, but in most encounters with the reaper tech they were present.

Now that would be an epic, horrible end to the series. Shepard has a boss battle with indoctrinated squadmates that he brought for the final mission.

In my case that would be Liara and Garrus...
Imagine fighting ME1 Saren husk and a Banshee at the same time, and knowing exactly who they are.

Guess who Marauder Shields was? (lol jk, but THAT would be a way to give a bittersweet ending. Forcing you to kill your friends to save the galaxy)

If this were the case I'd bring Javik and Kaidan. Oh wait, I've never bothered to save Kaidan in ME1.
[Takes cover from flames.]

BLASPHEMY!!! :o:o

Normally I would want to inflict pain upon you... But you spelt his name correctly twice in a row so i'll spare you from my almighty wrath. :innocent:

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Valentia X wrote...

elecmanexe001 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

/facepalm


I have said numerous times, in numerous threads, in conversations with you and other ITers, that while I find IT to be an interesting theory, it hasn't been able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any of it tenants, aside from the fact that Indoctrination exists in game. The proof of burden lies on those who propose the hypothesis, not those who have to be convinced.

And my main issue isn't that you believe in IT, but that you consistently, throughout several threads and many posts, call anyone who doesn't believe in IT derogatory names and are constantly using snide, rude, and borderline abusive language towards them. I don't care whether you believe in IT or not, that's not something that bothers me. Your attitude towards anyone who doesn't- which includes me- does.

Thats not everyone, thats a vocal minority shouting louder then the rest unfortunately.

Also, I would point out that more then just the fact that indoctrination exists point to IT theory being plausable. Simply what happens with the right GR and the red option goes to show what the catalyst told you, that you would die doing it, is not true and that the rest of what should be destroyed with said option may also not be destroyed, and so on. There is more that can be shown to have more ground then speculation, but no one is saying everything is 100% true.

I was speaking to her, personally. I try to honestly debate with ITers, not pick fights with them. That's not conducive to what I want, which is a friendly debate and new information.

I have no qualms with the idea of IT being a plausible theory. My issue is that IT isn't even really a theory, it's a set of hypotheses wherein most have not yet been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and until those hypotheses are reasonably proven, it can't be a theory. (This is working off of the scientific method, not literary critique, so if that's what you were referring to, my apologies). There is circumstantial evidence in game that points to indoctrination having been considered in game (as noted by the Final Hours app), which in turn lends credence to IT as a whole. But the compulsion of your 'vocal minority' to be abusive to non-ITers such as myself, who want debate and not insults, is becoming a big problem on the forums, and the 'nice' ITers are doing nothing to reign it in.

Hence the term "theory", theories are formed with some evidence to confirm it.

[KingZayd]

Agugaboo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

elecmanexe001 wrote...

No where in IT does it suggest friends are indoctrinated.... and they spent far less time near Reapers then you did.

I mention IT specifically to make it clear that if Shepard can be indoctrinated, then his companions too. They have not been with him constantly, but in most encounters with the reaper tech they were present.

Now that would be an epic, horrible end to the series. Shepard has a boss battle with indoctrinated squadmates that he brought for the final mission.

In my case that would be Liara and Garrus...
Imagine fighting ME1 Saren husk and a Banshee at the same time, and knowing exactly who they are.

Guess who Marauder Shields was? (lol jk, but THAT would be a way to give a bittersweet ending. Forcing you to kill your friends to save the galaxy)

If this were the case I'd bring Javik and Kaidan. Oh wait, I've never bothered to save Kaidan in ME1.
[Takes cover from flames.]

I haven't used Javik (although I did buy the DLC some timeafter Tuchanka. Unfortunately, student accomodation internet  prevents me from getting it authorised. By the time I got home, I saw the ending). Kaidan's already dead too.
And really, your whole squad should be running down there with you, since apparently this is the most important mission.

Also, that's just metagaming which i frown upon  Garrus and Liara were with me, but if i was doing the metagaming thing based on people I wouldn't mind dying as much then Ashley and... Jack. If based on who i think would be easy to kill, then can I take joker? erm, probably the same actually. Maybe Tali, since I don't know if the reapers can even use Quarians.

Modifié par KingZayd, 12 mai 2012 - 11:24 .

[Gorkan86]

Nauks wrote...

Speaking of religion-like charactertics, Pro-ITers usually say (yes we may be wrong) anti-ITers usually say (no we can't be wrong) see where I'm going with this?

I felt it myself. But not as you say. Unfortunately, I think.

I tried to argue with the guys from the "main IT thread", and the most interesting thing, None of them did not even try to assume that I can be right.
But I had to start to agree with them, because there already begins to boil emotions and something else.

[Swimming Ferret]

For the love of god, people, quit with the quoting layered posts! Snip out a few of them.

EDIT: oh and that's to the people who have around 10 or so quotes layered in a post. Cut some out.

Modifié par Swimming Ferret, 12 mai 2012 - 11:25 .

[7he Island Head]

eddieoctane wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

No, the biggest problem with IT is that it's 215% speculation.

When theres 5 seconds of cut-scenes, followed by Joker looking at the CIC when the ship is about to crash, even taking the ending at face value is total speculation.

And OP, it doesn't have to be a "wrong" decision to opt for control. To implement IT properly, all options should result in Shep waking up. I have suggested that the choice at the cruicble affect an invisible "sanity" meter. Destruction makes not succumbing to indoctrination the easiest, and I personally favor synthesis making it the most difficult. Other decisions also affect the sanity meter, and after a direct confrontation with Harbinger, one of 3 things happens:
1. Shep feels the Reapers creepign into his mind, but spins around with the Carnifex-of-doom and blasts Harby's core 1 last time. The indoc whispers stop, he sets of the crucible properly, and limps into the sunset with LI.
2. Shep feels himself losing control. Unable to continue, he smiles, says goodbye to his squad, and ices himself. A crewmate sets of the Crucible.
3. Shep succumbs to indoctrination fully. He spins around, and shoots at the squad. Someone, most likely the VS shoots Shep. LI screams in grief and runs up to catch his falling body. If you romanced the VS, a random crew member sets of the crucible. If not, the VS sets it off him/herself.

If you don't want to scrap the conversation with Anderson, perhaps have Shep wake up next to his body on Earth. Anderson telling you that "you did good" actually happened, he was talking to an injured and seemingly delerious Shepard.

There are many ways to work "no wrong decisions" into IT. I agree that writing off 2 of the 3 options has killing Shep is rediculous, but I don't advocate doing so.

Ya only one of those three options are good. That is number 1 and it is associated with the control ending, which is the paragon ending with the IT

[Swimming Ferret]

Gorkan86 wrote...

Nauks wrote...

Speaking of religion-like charactertics, Pro-ITers usually say (yes we may be wrong) anti-ITers usually say (no we can't be wrong) see where I'm going with this?

I felt it myself. But not as you say. Unfortunately, I think.

I tried to argue with the guys from the "main IT thread", and the most interesting thing, None of them did not even try to assume that I can be right.
But I had to start to agree with them, because there already begins to boil emotions and something else.

I had that issue myself. When I disagreed some thought I was 'trolling' and basically went batsh!t on me <_<

[OH-UP-THIS!]

KingZayd wrote...

7he Island Head wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

You don't only wake up with destroy. You wake up with all 3. The difference is your mental state after waking up.

Is that ingame or in the IT?

IT. (hopefully ingame by Summer )

?????????

One version of breathing........................High EMS+Destroy= breathing

ONE, count it..............1, uno, single,etc.

Just beyond zero, on the plus side, one.

[KingZayd]

7he Island Head wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

No, the biggest problem with IT is that it's 215% speculation.

When theres 5 seconds of cut-scenes, followed by Joker looking at the CIC when the ship is about to crash, even taking the ending at face value is total speculation.

And OP, it doesn't have to be a "wrong" decision to opt for control. To implement IT properly, all options should result in Shep waking up. I have suggested that the choice at the cruicble affect an invisible "sanity" meter. Destruction makes not succumbing to indoctrination the easiest, and I personally favor synthesis making it the most difficult. Other decisions also affect the sanity meter, and after a direct confrontation with Harbinger, one of 3 things happens:
1. Shep feels the Reapers creepign into his mind, but spins around with the Carnifex-of-doom and blasts Harby's core 1 last time. The indoc whispers stop, he sets of the crucible properly, and limps into the sunset with LI.
2. Shep feels himself losing control. Unable to continue, he smiles, says goodbye to his squad, and ices himself. A crewmate sets of the Crucible.
3. Shep succumbs to indoctrination fully. He spins around, and shoots at the squad. Someone, most likely the VS shoots Shep. LI screams in grief and runs up to catch his falling body. If you romanced the VS, a random crew member sets of the crucible. If not, the VS sets it off him/herself.

If you don't want to scrap the conversation with Anderson, perhaps have Shep wake up next to his body on Earth. Anderson telling you that "you did good" actually happened, he was talking to an injured and seemingly delerious Shepard.

There are many ways to work "no wrong decisions" into IT. I agree that writing off 2 of the 3 options has killing Shep is rediculous, but I don't advocate doing so.

Ya only one of those three options are good. That is number 1 and it is associated with the control ending, which is the paragon ending with the IT

I still don't see where the paragon/renegade comes into the decision. From where I'm concerned it's all about trust.
Trust the starchild? If not, pick destroy
If so, do you accept his reasoning? If no, pick control
If so, pick synthesis.

Modifié par KingZayd, 12 mai 2012 - 11:26 .

[7he Island Head]

KingZayd wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

elecmanexe001 wrote...

No where in IT does it suggest friends are indoctrinated.... and they spent far less time near Reapers then you did.

I mention IT specifically to make it clear that if Shepard can be indoctrinated, then his companions too. They have not been with him constantly, but in most encounters with the reaper tech they were present.

Now that would be an epic, horrible end to the series. Shepard has a boss battle with indoctrinated squadmates that he brought for the final mission.

In my case that would be Liara and Garrus...
Imagine fighting ME1 Saren husk and a Banshee at the same time, and knowing exactly who they are.

Guess who Marauder Shields was? (lol jk, but THAT would be a way to give a bittersweet ending. Forcing you to kill your friends to save the galaxy)

If this were the case I'd bring Javik and Kaidan. Oh wait, I've never bothered to save Kaidan in ME1.
[Takes cover from flames.]

I haven't used Javik (although I did buy the DLC some timeafter Tuchanka. Unfortunately, student accomodation internet  prevents me from getting it authorised. By the time I got home, I saw the ending). Kaidan's already dead too.
And really, your whole squad should be running down there with you, since apparently this is the most important mission.

Also, that's just metagaming which i frown upon  Garrus and Liara were with me, but if i was doing the metagaming thing based on people I wouldn't mind dying as much then Ashley and... Jack. If based on who i think would be easy to kill, then can I take joker? erm, probably the same actually. Maybe Tali, since I don't know if the reapers can even use Quarians.

Wut if you bring Grunt and Wrex? Shep would never win 

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Nauks wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

ohupthis wrote...


Then by all means DEFEND yourself, instead of just blatantly denying IT, could be POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't have to agree with us, just accept the fact this is a possibility, plain AND simple.

The point is that you can't disprove IT.  Any reasonable argument against it can be worked around by its adherents.  This is yet another religion-like characteristic it has.

ANYTHING is possible in a work of ficition.  The Catalyst could be a re-incarnation of the Stay Puft™ Marshmallow man.  The fact that it's possible doesn't make it any more compelling or desireable.

You can however produce compelling evidence supporting the I.T. using what we know about the lore and ME3, without taking giant imaginary leaps.

Speaking of religion-like charactertics, Pro-ITers usually say (yes we may be wrong) anti-ITers usually say (no we can't be wrong) see where I'm going with this?

Sounds like both teams are still in denial, huh? LOL

[vurtual3]

A major flaw with IT theory is it says 2/3 endings were wrong. Actually wrong. Do you honestly think that's what BW went for?!

[KingZayd]

ohupthis wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

7he Island Head wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

You don't only wake up with destroy. You wake up with all 3. The difference is your mental state after waking up.

Is that ingame or in the IT?

IT. (hopefully ingame by Summer )

?????????

One version of breathing........................High EMS+Destroy= breathing

ONE, count it..............1, uno, single,etc.

Just beyond zero, on the plus side, one.

You don't see his corpse in the other endings do you? Beating indoctrination is not the same as Surviving. Why do you think the 2 are linked?

[KingZayd]

vurtual3 wrote...

A major flaw with IT theory is it says 2/3 endings were wrong. Actually wrong. Do you honestly think that's what BW went for?!

Why not?

[7he Island Head]

KingZayd wrote...

7he Island Head wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

No, the biggest problem with IT is that it's 215% speculation.

When theres 5 seconds of cut-scenes, followed by Joker looking at the CIC when the ship is about to crash, even taking the ending at face value is total speculation.

And OP, it doesn't have to be a "wrong" decision to opt for control. To implement IT properly, all options should result in Shep waking up. I have suggested that the choice at the cruicble affect an invisible "sanity" meter. Destruction makes not succumbing to indoctrination the easiest, and I personally favor synthesis making it the most difficult. Other decisions also affect the sanity meter, and after a direct confrontation with Harbinger, one of 3 things happens:
1. Shep feels the Reapers creepign into his mind, but spins around with the Carnifex-of-doom and blasts Harby's core 1 last time. The indoc whispers stop, he sets of the crucible properly, and limps into the sunset with LI.
2. Shep feels himself losing control. Unable to continue, he smiles, says goodbye to his squad, and ices himself. A crewmate sets of the Crucible.
3. Shep succumbs to indoctrination fully. He spins around, and shoots at the squad. Someone, most likely the VS shoots Shep. LI screams in grief and runs up to catch his falling body. If you romanced the VS, a random crew member sets of the crucible. If not, the VS sets it off him/herself.

If you don't want to scrap the conversation with Anderson, perhaps have Shep wake up next to his body on Earth. Anderson telling you that "you did good" actually happened, he was talking to an injured and seemingly delerious Shepard.

There are many ways to work "no wrong decisions" into IT. I agree that writing off 2 of the 3 options has killing Shep is rediculous, but I don't advocate doing so.

Ya only one of those three options are good. That is number 1 and it is associated with the control ending, which is the paragon ending with the IT

I still don't see where the paragon/renegade comes into the decision. From where I'm concerned it's all about trust.
Trust the starchild? If not, pick destroy
If so, do you accept his reasoning? If no, pick control
If so, pick synthesis.

It cause of the colors! Blue is paragon, but the reapers are trying to trick you so they make it red. ITers say this all the time.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

7he Island Head wrote...

ohupthis wrote...


To be perfectly honest, I too am of the belief Bioware messed up ROYALLY, but I have a spark of hope, with my UNreligion.

I find it easier to believe that they messed up rather in the IT.... 

It certainly requires less energy, and makes more sense to boot.

Yeah, but it's depressing and not as fun to talk about.

True but with caveats,..........................lots & lots of 'em.

[Agugaboo]

EsterCloat wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

or dinosaurs,

And who doesn't like dinosaurs? Am I right or am I right?

Eexactly

[KingZayd]

7he Island Head wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

elecmanexe001 wrote...

No where in IT does it suggest friends are indoctrinated.... and they spent far less time near Reapers then you did.

I mention IT specifically to make it clear that if Shepard can be indoctrinated, then his companions too. They have not been with him constantly, but in most encounters with the reaper tech they were present.

Now that would be an epic, horrible end to the series. Shepard has a boss battle with indoctrinated squadmates that he brought for the final mission.

In my case that would be Liara and Garrus...
Imagine fighting ME1 Saren husk and a Banshee at the same time, and knowing exactly who they are.

Guess who Marauder Shields was? (lol jk, but THAT would be a way to give a bittersweet ending. Forcing you to kill your friends to save the galaxy)

If this were the case I'd bring Javik and Kaidan. Oh wait, I've never bothered to save Kaidan in ME1.
[Takes cover from flames.]

I haven't used Javik (although I did buy the DLC some timeafter Tuchanka. Unfortunately, student accomodation internet  prevents me from getting it authorised. By the time I got home, I saw the ending). Kaidan's already dead too.
And really, your whole squad should be running down there with you, since apparently this is the most important mission.

Also, that's just metagaming which i frown upon  Garrus and Liara were with me, but if i was doing the metagaming thing based on people I wouldn't mind dying as much then Ashley and... Jack. If based on who i think would be easy to kill, then can I take joker? erm, probably the same actually. Maybe Tali, since I don't know if the reapers can even use Quarians.

Wut if you bring Grunt and Wrex? Shep would never win 

AHA! that's why you have no Krogan squadmates! mystery solved Also I have faith that the same technique to beat the banshees can be used: Blast with the Graal Stakegun repeatedly, and when they get close.. RUN. Same technique i used for Brutes actually (just with more jumping to dodge them).

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Agugaboo wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

elecmanexe001 wrote...

No where in IT does it suggest friends are indoctrinated.... and they spent far less time near Reapers then you did.

I mention IT specifically to make it clear that if Shepard can be indoctrinated, then his companions too. They have not been with him constantly, but in most encounters with the reaper tech they were present.

Now that would be an epic, horrible end to the series. Shepard has a boss battle with indoctrinated squadmates that he brought for the final mission.

In my case that would be Liara and Garrus...
Imagine fighting ME1 Saren husk and a Banshee at the same time, and knowing exactly who they are.

about all I can is ..........................ouch!

[7he Island Head]

KingZayd wrote...

7he Island Head wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

elecmanexe001 wrote...

No where in IT does it suggest friends are indoctrinated.... and they spent far less time near Reapers then you did.

I mention IT specifically to make it clear that if Shepard can be indoctrinated, then his companions too. They have not been with him constantly, but in most encounters with the reaper tech they were present.

Now that would be an epic, horrible end to the series. Shepard has a boss battle with indoctrinated squadmates that he brought for the final mission.

In my case that would be Liara and Garrus...
Imagine fighting ME1 Saren husk and a Banshee at the same time, and knowing exactly who they are.

Guess who Marauder Shields was? (lol jk, but THAT would be a way to give a bittersweet ending. Forcing you to kill your friends to save the galaxy)

If this were the case I'd bring Javik and Kaidan. Oh wait, I've never bothered to save Kaidan in ME1.
[Takes cover from flames.]

I haven't used Javik (although I did buy the DLC some timeafter Tuchanka. Unfortunately, student accomodation internet  prevents me from getting it authorised. By the time I got home, I saw the ending). Kaidan's already dead too.
And really, your whole squad should be running down there with you, since apparently this is the most important mission.

Also, that's just metagaming which i frown upon  Garrus and Liara were with me, but if i was doing the metagaming thing based on people I wouldn't mind dying as much then Ashley and... Jack. If based on who i think would be easy to kill, then can I take joker? erm, probably the same actually. Maybe Tali, since I don't know if the reapers can even use Quarians.

Wut if you bring Grunt and Wrex? Shep would never win 

AHA! that's why you have no Krogan squadmates! mystery solved Also I have faith that the same technique to beat the banshees can be used: Blast with the Graal Stakegun repeatedly, and when they get close.. RUN. Same technique i used for Brutes actually (just with more jumping to dodge them).

I miss Krogan squad mates :'(  

 I use that technique you described pretty much on everything.... pew pew pew then RUN!!!

[balance5050]

vurtual3 wrote...

A major flaw with IT theory is it says 2/3 endings were wrong. Actually wrong. Do you honestly think that's what BW went for?!

They went for it in the rest of the series by continuosly telling you that NO ONE can control the reapers....

And synthesis, only mention of anything remotly close is

A. Saren

B. Soverign

C Harbinger

D. Project overlord

If those two choices are valid then it INVALIDATES the rest of the game.

Which do you prefer? The first 99% of the Mass Effect trilogy or the last 15 minutes?

[EsterCloat]

Agugaboo wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

or dinosaurs,

And who doesn't like dinosaurs? Am I right or am I right?

Eexactly
*snip*

We owe a lot to the dinosaurs. Look at this ancient photo.


Godspeed our ancient reptilian saviors.

[7he Island Head]

balance5050 wrote...

vurtual3 wrote...

A major flaw with IT theory is it says 2/3 endings were wrong. Actually wrong. Do you honestly think that's what BW went for?!

They went for it in the rest of the series by continuosly telling you that NO ONE can control the reapers....

And synthesis, only mention of anything remotly close is

A. Saren

B. Soverign

C Harbinger

D. Project overlord

If those two choices are valid then it INVALIDATES the rest of the game.

Which do you prefer? The first 99% of the Mass Effect trilogy or the last 15 minutes?

Outside of the IT, in mass effect cannon the Starkid can control the reapers

[Agugaboo]

KingZayd wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

elecmanexe001 wrote...

No where in IT does it suggest friends are indoctrinated.... and they spent far less time near Reapers then you did.

I mention IT specifically to make it clear that if Shepard can be indoctrinated, then his companions too. They have not been with him constantly, but in most encounters with the reaper tech they were present.

Now that would be an epic, horrible end to the series. Shepard has a boss battle with indoctrinated squadmates that he brought for the final mission.

In my case that would be Liara and Garrus...
Imagine fighting ME1 Saren husk and a Banshee at the same time, and knowing exactly who they are.

Guess who Marauder Shields was? (lol jk, but THAT would be a way to give a bittersweet ending. Forcing you to kill your friends to save the galaxy)

If this were the case I'd bring Javik and Kaidan. Oh wait, I've never bothered to save Kaidan in ME1.
[Takes cover from flames.]

I haven't used Javik (although I did buy the DLC some timeafter Tuchanka. Unfortunately, student accomodation internet  prevents me from getting it authorised. By the time I got home, I saw the ending). Kaidan's already dead too.
And really, your whole squad should be running down there with you, since apparently this is the most important mission.

Also, that's just metagaming which i frown upon  Garrus and Liara were with me, but if i was doing the metagaming thing based on people I wouldn't mind dying as much then Ashley and... Jack. If based on who i think would be easy to kill, then can I take joker? erm, probably the same actually. Maybe Tali, since I don't know if the reapers can even use Quarians.

STILL havent bought From Ashes  DLC, just to clarify. Holding the line! It's okay if you bought it though. No big deal. Yeah Ashley would be my third choice, although she really has given Kaidan a run for his money given the whole distrust thing and drunkenness. I intend to spare Kaidan on my current ME1 playthrough to give him a chance.