211 réponses à ce sujet

[NoSpin]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

 The truth hurts, doesn't it? Your reactions to the ending are eniterly emotional and not even connected to anykind of logic.

Actually, don't people hate the ending MOST of all because it is illogical and abandons predefined themes in the series as well as contradicts the many promises that were said prior to release? Just checking...

[Muhkida]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Yeah it doesn't matter who said it.

Remind me to take Sean Hannity seriously next time then <_<

[Clayless]

Muhkida wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Yeah it doesn't matter who said it.

Remind me to take Sean Hannity seriously next time then <_<

Don't know who that is but it doesn't matter who says what, it matters what they say.

[Muhkida]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Don't know who that is but it doesn't matter who says what, it matters what they say.

Next time some Pepsi advocate tells me Coca-Cola products are terrible, I'll take his word for being legit...

[hoodaticus]

Muhkida wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Yeah it doesn't matter who said it.

Remind me to take Sean Hannity seriously next time then <_<

International forum.  Local media personality.  Soaring right over people's heads.

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Then he is not describing us. We have given Bioware an out and that is to make a better ending.

[BABEik52092]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

These threads always crack me up. Whining about being called whiners hence proving those of us that call you out as whiners correct.

I made it to just point out and show people that Pachter and other journalists keep calling us whiners when we have valid arguments about how the ending are dissapointed.

There is nothing wrong with trying to show that insulting us by calling us whiners isn't correct because according to his definition, we are complainers and not whiners. And according to him, being a complainer is showing your right as a consumer.

[Clayless]

Muhkida wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Don't know who that is but it doesn't matter who says what, it matters what they say.

Next time some Pepsi advocate tells me Coca-Cola products are terrible, I'll take his word for being legit...

Ok. I would investigate a bit more if I was you but whatever floats your boat.

[Muhkida]

hoodaticus wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Yeah it doesn't matter who said it.

Remind me to take Sean Hannity seriously next time then <_<

International forum.  Local media personality.  Soaring right over people's heads.

Call me crazy, but I think he has what it takes to be a pundit.  Grab some liquor, invest into learning a little comedy, and he's set.

[CrazyRah]

Oh dear that was the most hilarious thing i've seen this week. His arrogance is amusing and whatever opinion he might have i can't be bothered with but he's hilarious to watch though.. so much baaad

[Muhkida]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Next time some Pepsi advocate tells me Coca-Cola products are terrible, I'll take his word for being legit...

Ok. I would investigate a bit more if I was you but whatever floats your boat.

So you pretty much backed out on your previous statement.  It's only natural to "investigate" the credibility of a said source.

[Clayless]

Muhkida wrote...

So you pretty much backed out on your previous statement.  It's only natural to "investigate" the credibility of a said source.

If by backed out you mean fall in line perfectly:

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

While I didn't watch the video this:

BABEik52092 wrote...

 "sniveling in a peevish, self-pitying way"

Is so true.

Disagree? How much people do you see saying they're going to hate the EC because "why would we want more of that ****?" (or something to that degree)?

How much people do you see pointing out that "X said this before the game came out and that was a LIE" and then doing absolutely nothing about it?

How much people do you see complaining about the big bad Bioware and EA and how they somehow wronged them, but again not actually doing anything about it?

That quote was spot on on how to describe that.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 13 mai 2012 - 01:38 .

[IUDEX99]

Just watched the video.

Well I am one of the gamers who is very disappointed with ME3's ending, but he is mostly right.

But there is a least one point were I strongly disagree with him and that's the topic about the FTC.
I did not research about the legal definition af advertisement in northern America. From a professional point of view the question if statements that were made in public media during the pre-release-phase of a product is a very interesting question. After this sentence it's obsolete to let you guess about my profession.
It is an interesting question because the answer might bring the next topic in the game which would be false advertisement.
But - and it's a very big BUT - it is a legal question and - as I already admitted - I did not make any researches about theese legal issues.

Coming back to his definition and his description and the fact that I mainly can concur his statements.
It's definitly a difference simply to say that you dislike something (without giving reasons, without constructive criticism) or complaining in a constructive way.

I would not go as far as he does and declare it as whining.
One is simply a statement of taste ("I like it" or "It sucks) and gives the company which produces the product you are referring to no chance to change the product.
Being constructive is definitly a difference.

In fact I have on huge problem with all the journalists bringing "entitelement" or "whining" in connection with the unsatisfied ME3-players. Most of the journalist obviously have never been here int eh forums or checked the forums of the common movements.
Most of the people here in the forums clearly articulate why they are not satisfied with the ending of the game.
I have been reading interseting discussions about deus ex machina as a literarily figure and the question if it sahould have been used or not (and even disussions about the question if the catalyst is a DEM). Discussions about MacGuffins, typical plotlines and other literarily questions.
There were very detailed threads about the plotholes including recommendations how the holes could be filled.

So again, I am with Mr. P. as far as it concerns the definitions.
But definitly not as far as it concerns the ME3-community. Of course, there are whiners too, but the majority has a clear conception why they like or dislike the ending and most of them articlate it.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Well, what? This fanbase *is* full of whiners. Not all of the whining done here is without good reason, though, but let's not kid ourselves either. Whining is a favorite pastime of BSN.

[Sal86]

There's no need to fret over this. There are a great number of people who dislike the ending that he is describing in his explanation of complaining.

He doesn't make a blanket statement saying all people who dislike the ending are whiners. If he had done that, then it would bother me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of his. In fact I find him deeply unpleasant on a personal level but there you go.

[Muhkida]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

So you pretty much backed out on your previous statement.  It's only natural to "investigate" the credibility of a said source.

If by backed out you mean fall in line perfectly:

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

While I didn't watch the video this:

BABEik52092 wrote...

 "sniveling in a peevish, self-pitying way"

Is so true.

Disagree? How much people do you see saying they're going to hate the EC because "why would we want more of that ****?" (or something to that degree)?

How much people do you see pointing out that "X said this before the game came out and that was a LIE" and then doing absolutely nothing about it?

How much people do you see complaining about the big bad Bioware and EA and how they somehow wronged them, but again not actually doing anything about it?

That quote was spot on on how to describe that.

You're going in circles here, I was referring to the "backing out on previous statement" from you saying that it doesn't matter the source credibility, but what he said.  I'm pretty much saying that's not always true.

As for your very first statement, there are people who don't like the ending as is but are giving EC and Bioware a chance.  Michael Pachter pretty much disregards that notion.

And I'm not sure what you're getting at about "doing absolutely nothing about it?" part.  You say people should take action, but that's a little vague.  Is taking action not buying another one of their products?  Grabbing torches and pitchforks?

[IUDEX99]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Well, what? This fanbase *is* full of whiners. Not all of the whining done here is without good reason, though, but let's not kid ourselves either. Whining is a favorite pastime of BSN.

Have you been in the WoW-forums lately? Especially in the PvP-forums?

If BSN is full of whiners I have no idea how to call the WoW-community....

Modifié par IUDEX99, 13 mai 2012 - 01:53 .

[Mims]

The cycle is inevitable. We are equal parts whiners and white knights.

[Clayless]

Muhkida wrote...

You're going in circles here, I was referring to the "backing out on previous statement" from you saying that it doesn't matter the source credibility, but what he said.  I'm pretty much saying that's not always true.

"It doesn't matter who says it, it matters what they say" is not "It doesn't matter the source credibility". It doesn't matter that he's Michael Pacher, it matters what he says.

Muhkida wrote...

As for your very first statement, there are people who don't like the ending as is but are giving EC and Bioware a chance.  Michael Pachter pretty much disregards that notion.

And I'm not sure what you're getting at about "doing absolutely nothing about it?" part.  You say people should take action, but that's a little vague.  Is taking action not buying another one of their products?  Grabbing torches and pitchforks?

Not buying another one of their products is more of an inaction, as me not buying Crysis 3 isn't really much of an action. But I guess you could say "I'm not buying another Bioware product" which is fine, but also not really all that impressive as "I would've bought that but didn't" isn't much to shout about, whereas saying "I'm not buying another Bioware product but I'm going to whine about 1 part of a previous Bioware product 3 months after the game came out and not actually move on" is whining.

Edit:

Also not buying a future Bioware game isn't really doing anything about your current complaint with ME3.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 13 mai 2012 - 02:23 .

[Xx_Belzak_xX]

I don't pay attention to it anymore. Nor do I pay any mind to journalists anymore. There was once a time when journalism was respectable. Now its ****ing laughable.

[Muhkida]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

"It doesn't matter who says it, it matters what they say" is not "It doesn't matter the source credibility". It doesn't matter that he's Michael Pacher, it matters what he says.

It can go hand in hand easily, but not all the time...so I'll give you that.  Either way you pretty much agreed that what a person said that mattered isn't always true with my soda analogy.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Not buying another one of their products is more of an inaction, as me not buying Crysis 3 isn't really much of an action. But I guess you could say "I'm not buying another Bioware product" which is fine, but also not really all that impressive as "I would've bought that but didn't" isn't much to shout about, whereas saying "I'm not buying another Bioware product but I'm going to whine about 1 part of a previous Bioware product 3 months after the game came out and not actually move on" is whining.

Edit:

Also not buying a future Bioware game isn't really doing anything about your current complaint with ME3.

Your mentioning of people not buying another Bioware product as inaction is pretty much perspective, so I won't dip into that. 

People will complain if they didn't enjoy the product the invested in, that's just natural.  If people who hated the ending didn't say anything about ME3's ending, do you think Bioware would get the picture and adjust?  Probably not.

As for the lengths of complaints, part of this is because of the latch Bioware has put on it's consumers of ME3 with the EC DLC coming up this summer.  Granted a lot of the complaints are mindless drivel with no substance, but I've seen people come up with better input (like the war assests being visible).  I don't think they should be labeled whiners.

Modifié par Muhkida, 13 mai 2012 - 02:49 .

[Clayless]

Muhkida wrote...

It can go hand in hand easily, but not all the time...so I'll give you that.  Either way you pretty much agreed that what a person said that mattered isn't always true with my soda analogy.

If I actually claimed saying something is always true. You really need to read my first post again, you're looking for a contradiction where there is none.

Muhkida wrote...

Your mentioning of people not buying another Bioware product as inaction is pretty much perspective, so I won't dip into that. 

People will complain if they didn't enjoy the product the invested in, that's just natural.  If people who hated the ending didn't say anything about ME3's ending, do you think Bioware would get the picture and adjust?  Probably not.

As for the lengths of complaints, part of this is because of the latch Bioware has put on it's consumers of ME3 with the EC DLC coming up this summer.  Granted a lot of the complaints are mindless drivel with no substance, but I've seen people come up with better input (like the war assests being visible).  I don't think they should be labeled whiners.

You're mistaking "whining" with "actually doing something about complaints".

All of this is covered in my first post:

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

While I didn't watch the video this:

BABEik52092 wrote...

 "sniveling in a peevish, self-pitying way"

Is so true.

Disagree? How much people do you see saying they're going to hate the EC because "why would we want more of that ****?" (or something to that degree)?

How much people do you see pointing out that "X said this before the game came out and that was a LIE" and then doing absolutely nothing about it?

How much people do you see complaining about the big bad Bioware and EA and how they somehow wronged them, but again not actually doing anything about it?

That quote was spot on on how to describe that.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 13 mai 2012 - 03:27 .

[Muhkida]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

If I actually claimed saying something is always true. You really need to read my first post again, you're looking for a contradiction where there is none.

Again as I've said before, my soda analogy response relates to your "Yeah it doesn't matter who said it".  Your first post had nothing to do with it.  You're going off subject here and trying to make two seperate arguments the same.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

You're mistaking "whining" with "actually doing something about complaints".

I'm not mistaking anything.  I'm just clearly stating that some people were going to their lengths because the game hasn't reached an official closure yet so it.  So the complaining or whining won't die down until it finally does. 

People like to see the war assests in action, and I agree that it would be a good thing.  Yet people will generalize those who disliked the ending but have cooler heads with the same anti-enders who wants to see Bioware burn.  That's borderline stereotype.

Modifié par Muhkida, 13 mai 2012 - 03:57 .