211 réponses à ce sujet

[Muhkida]

EDIT : doubleposting when I'm trying to edit......damn I'm failing

Modifié par Muhkida, 13 mai 2012 - 03:57 .

[Clayless]

[quote]Muhkida wrote...

Again as I've said before, my soda analogy response relates to your "Yeah it doesn't matter who said it".  Your first post had nothing to do with it.  You're going off subject here and trying to make two seperate arguments the same.[/quote]

It doesn't matter who says it, it matters what they say.

If you ignored 50% of that sentence then the pepsi analogy would make sense.

[quote]Our_Last_Scene wrote...

You're mistaking "whining" with "actually doing something about complaints".[/quote]

I'm not mistaking anything.  I'm just clearly stating that some people were going to their lengths because the game hasn't reached an official closure yet so it.  So the complaining or whining won't die down until it finally does. 

People like to see the war assests in action, and I agree that it would be a good thing.  Yet people will generalize those who disliked the ending but have cooler heads with the same anti-enders who wants to see Bioware burn.  That's borderline stereotype.

[/quote]

In other words you're arguing with the wrong person and you quoted the wrong post

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 13 mai 2012 - 04:02 .

[Taboo]

Remember he offers and opinion. One that is valid, but only so much to the point that he is critiquing a piece of art. He is entitled to his opinion. It is also your right to think he is on a high horse, as webhead stated.

Any intention behind such defense at this point doesn't really seem to be anything other than attempt for hits. Most sites have been quiet for weeks.

[Muhkida]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

It doesn't matter who says it, it matters what they say.

If you ignored 50% of that sentence then the pepsi analogy would make sense.

Then I guess that's how you let things roll in your life.  Personally, I would like to know about a said person's stance, position, etc.... before I cast some kind of judgement on his comments, but to each his own.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

In other words you're arguing with the wrong person and you quoted the wrong post

I'm just simply stating my POV in regards to this topic.  If I came out to be quoting you incorrectly then I apologize.

[Harmless Crunch]

Wow what an idiot. Completely ignored the well constructed complaints. I wish I could get paid to spout bull.

[cbutz]

Looks like another case of "Who is this person and why should I care?"

[akenn312]

Just a thought here but, if we are just a small "whiney & entitled" minority, then why are they doing everything they can to put out to the public we are nothing and just a small amount of fans that "Don't get it" that are trying to take over BSN and the creativity of Mass Effect?

Don't be fooled and don't allow this stooge of the gaming industry to stop your voice as a consumer. The bad part of the gaming industry wants to be able to gouge customers with first day DLC content, selling out their games and turning them in to Modern Warfare 3 clones, always rushing out games with over marketing and false promises to get customers to buy them quickly. I don't want to say the overly predictable cliché statement of "HOLD THE LINE" or "HOLD THE WALLET". But still don't let this guys industry PR stunt fool you into thinking anti-enders do not have a good case. Don't let them guilt you into thinking you are wrong too not like these endings or think you shuold not post, talk or expect a better RPG game ending effort. 

Does Bioware have a great RPG game the people love…yes. Do they have the right to have a vision of a story? Yes. 
Do they have the right to try to bleed customers though first day DLC, make false promises about the games story and then jab at dissatisfied customers through twitter, BSN and the media stooges if customers don't like it?

I say a resounding no. RPG games should not suddenly start trying to turn into action/multiplayer knockoffs because that's where the big money is. Fight to keep RPG games where they are. This story ending matters and us telling them about it matters. An RPG game should not have options to abandon the story and just become a shooter to bring in more money. The people in the industry that like this stuff want that, because they are all about making money. Look at Pachter? Do you really think he really cares about the true nature of gaming? If you do then you are falling for the same trap as the Bioware's "Artistic integrity and "They don't get it stuff". 

Don't fall for this guy's BS…Don't fall for the Okey-Doke my fellow Shepards.

Modifié par akenn312, 13 mai 2012 - 05:58 .

[SNascimento]

People here whine a lot, that is the truth.

[CGAVnerDune]

SNascimento wrote...

People here whine a lot, that is the truth.

Unfortunately thats the only option EA provides its consumer base.  It has been this way for years.  I remember two years ago trying to get EA Montreal to fix the DLC issues with Army of Two: TFD (yes I know I was stupid enough to buy it) 

A group of us went to the forums and gave feedback to get them to fix the issues with their DLC.  They said 'We are listening" spent five minutes on the issue and came back and said there is no problem with our DLC.  We tried to keep communication open but they 'turtled up' and stopped responding.  Then things got really nasty on the forums and so they chose to ignore the issue and moved on.  

They never fixed the issue despite the company who made metro 2033 having the same issues and fixed the problem in a month with their game.  We even came back and told EA montreal via the forums, as respectully as we could, that Metro 2033 had the same issue and what they did to resolve it and to see if that could resolve the issue with their game.  They continued to ignore the issue.  The sad thing about all this is that all it took was for the DLC to be resubmitted to both Microsoft and Sony (sometimes in the transfer process from a publisher to Microsoft and Sony the packet can lose a few kilobytes of data).  Thats it and two years down the line and they still haven't fixed it.

If we don't scream, bang drums, and embarass the company they will not expend any effort to resolve greivances.  But all this rage only reinforces the idea that their consumers are nothing but emotional ragemonsters.  This makes gamers easily dismissable.  It's a horrible downwards spiral.  The problem is that for this downward spiral to stop EA has to take measures in showing more respect to their customer base.  Fans can not take a step back on these issues because they will continue to be ignored and marginalized and only incite EA to become more agressive in their actions.

But this is benificial for EA and they foster this environment specifically so they can:

1.  Knowingly take money for incomplete, subpar services.
2.  Further minimize costs by not fixing issues or continuing to provide  grossly substandard   services
3.  When things like this happen, because of the inherent stigma with gaming and gamers they can openly dismiss their customers despite valid arguments.

I mean can you name any other industry where a producer or provider of goods and services can openly berate, dismiss, and demean their consumers and not suffer financially or be torn apart in the news/media?  Especially given the overt anti-consumer practices EA employs?

Michael Pacter is a direct representation of the kind of morally bankrupt and criminally unethical personages that are running the show at EA.

[Torrible]

CGAVnerDune wrote...


I mean can you name any other industry where a producer or provider of goods and services can openly berate, dismiss, and demean their consumers and not suffer financially or be torn apart in the news/media?  

Making baseless, hyperbolic accusations like that is part of the reason why people don't take you guys seriously. Mind elaborating in detail how you are constantly being openly berated, demeaned and dismissed? 

[Phaedra Sanguine]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

 The truth hurts, doesn't it? Your reactions to the ending are eniterly emotional and not even connected to anykind of logic.

Praise the spaghetti monster, somebody who can see through the tears!

[GuardianAngel470]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

 The truth hurts, doesn't it? Your reactions to the ending are eniterly emotional and not even connected to anykind of logic.

This is quite laughable. Well done Love.

[GuardianAngel470]

Torrible wrote...

CGAVnerDune wrote...


I mean can you name any other industry where a producer or provider of goods and services can openly berate, dismiss, and demean their consumers and not suffer financially or be torn apart in the news/media?  

Making baseless, hyperbolic accusations like that is part of the reason why people don't take you guys seriously. Mind elaborating in detail how you are constantly being openly berated, demeaned and dismissed? 

Did, did you miss the video in the OP? Or every article from IGN, GameInformer, Gametrailers, Gamespot, and pretty much every other major news outlet?

Better question: How do you define berate, demean, and dismiss?

[MstrJedi Kyle]

I quote "As consumers we absolutley have the right to complain about poor products." That is exactly what we have done. Yes some people have gone crazy with this calling fore everyone to be fired but that is going to happen when millions of people love your products. Out a millions there are bound to be a few crazy people. Most of the people that are dissatisfied with the ending have been civil and are patiently waiting for the EC.

[Deathstroke123]

BABEik52092 wrote...



He just posted this up today on Gametrailers. He basically brings up Mass Effect 3 again and how we are all whiners and not complainers, because we are "sniveling in a peevish, self-pitying way" about the ending by wanting to not buy EA and Bioware products and by possibly having a hand in the "EA Worst Company in America" award.

However, he defines complainers as "respectiful, thoughtful consumers that have an intelligent basis of argument on the issue at hand."

Its just so maddening to see that here he is whining about a minority of whiners among the Mass Effect 3 anti-enders population. We, as a fan base, DO IN FACT have a thoughtful and logical stance and supporting evidence as too why we believe the end to ME3 sucks and as to why we are so vocal about it.

I know most of you here hate Pacher anyway. Only watch the segment if you wanted to see how stupid his argument is.

He's completely right.

I don't know what BSN you're looking at, but for every well thought out, reasonable and respectable complaint thread there is, there's 3 more either directly insulting Bioware staff, jumping down the games throat for not directly catering to what they wanted (realistic or no), or carrying on about something a single Bioware rep said once as a matter of opinion rather then the companies stance. How do you think the 'Hamburger Hepler' debacle started on the DA2 side of things?

Yes, there are legit complaints, but they are not, by a long shot, solely representative of the community, a community that is incredibly quick to cry foul on something without bothering to research technical knowledge or proof overwise.

There are ALOT of whiners here. You're doing nothing but justifying their actions right now.

[suprhomre]

I'm not going to watch this idiot's rant about us. I'm not going to support his vids. His loyalty has always been towards the big companies and he have always been kissing their A-holes. Why would I start to watch his vids now he's clearly trolling to get more viewers.

[Torrible]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Torrible wrote...

CGAVnerDune wrote...


I mean can you name any other industry where a producer or provider of goods and services can openly berate, dismiss, and demean their consumers and not suffer financially or be torn apart in the news/media?  

Making baseless, hyperbolic accusations like that is part of the reason why people don't take you guys seriously. Mind elaborating in detail how you are constantly being openly berated, demeaned and dismissed? 

Did, did you miss the video in the OP? Or every article from IGN, GameInformer, Gametrailers, Gamespot, and pretty much every other major news outlet?

Better question: How do you define berate, demean, and dismiss?

Their views do not reflect those of Bioware/EA. 

[Muhkida]

Torrible wrote...

Making baseless, hyperbolic accusations like that is part of the reason why people don't take you guys seriously. Mind elaborating in detail how you are constantly being openly berated, demeaned and dismissed? 

Hey now, there's no need for that.  It's bad enough that I have to sit in the back of the bus and....

[Deathstroke123]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Torrible wrote...

CGAVnerDune wrote...


I mean can you name any other industry where a producer or provider of goods and services can openly berate, dismiss, and demean their consumers and not suffer financially or be torn apart in the news/media?  

Making baseless, hyperbolic accusations like that is part of the reason why people don't take you guys seriously. Mind elaborating in detail how you are constantly being openly berated, demeaned and dismissed? 

Did, did you miss the video in the OP? Or every article from IGN, GameInformer, Gametrailers, Gamespot, and pretty much every other major news outlet?

Better question: How do you define berate, demean, and dismiss?

I'm sorry, when was the last time you bought a game from IGN, Gameinformer, Gametrailers, etc?

They're free online publications, they don't owe you jack-diddly. They can make fun of you all they want, and if your response to them talking about your whining is more whining, then I guess you're just proving them right.

[GuardianAngel470]

Torrible wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Torrible wrote...

CGAVnerDune wrote...


I mean can you name any other industry where a producer or provider of goods and services can openly berate, dismiss, and demean their consumers and not suffer financially or be torn apart in the news/media?  

Making baseless, hyperbolic accusations like that is part of the reason why people don't take you guys seriously. Mind elaborating in detail how you are constantly being openly berated, demeaned and dismissed? 

Did, did you miss the video in the OP? Or every article from IGN, GameInformer, Gametrailers, Gamespot, and pretty much every other major news outlet?

Better question: How do you define berate, demean, and dismiss?

Their views do not reflect those of Bioware/EA. 

Dr. Muzyka's blog regarding the end fits one of those categories, and the gaming media fits everything else. At this point people consider them one and the same. Are they right to do so? Maybe, maybe not. The venom with which the media responded certainly did an excellent job of filling the silence created by Bioware.

I'm not saying that fans thus far have been saints. I'm not even saying that those who aren't saints are the minority. This is the internet, everybody and their mom comes on here to **** about life and spread negativity.

All I'm saying is that fans who felt slighted by the ending really do have every right to be pissed at this point. You and others may not have noticed, but the full hyperbolic, fallacy ridden force of the modern gaming media has been directed at us.

If you happen to agree with them fine, just spend a few extra seconds considering what it this situation is like for those who disagree with you.

Also remember (or know if you are new here) that the BSN really has always been like this. Never quite so one-sided (except in Paragon vs. Renegade disputes) but the repetition, the nitpicking, and the heated debates. This is still very much normal.

And remember that not everyone is a Drayfish, they aren't schooled in communicating and struggle to find words to express their displeasure.

[Omega2079]

OP, if you include yourself in those that think that complaint to the FTC was right, you are a whiner.

He makes it quite clear what he's talking about.

[GuardianAngel470]

Deathstroke123 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Torrible wrote...

CGAVnerDune wrote...


I mean can you name any other industry where a producer or provider of goods and services can openly berate, dismiss, and demean their consumers and not suffer financially or be torn apart in the news/media?  

Making baseless, hyperbolic accusations like that is part of the reason why people don't take you guys seriously. Mind elaborating in detail how you are constantly being openly berated, demeaned and dismissed? 

Did, did you miss the video in the OP? Or every article from IGN, GameInformer, Gametrailers, Gamespot, and pretty much every other major news outlet?

Better question: How do you define berate, demean, and dismiss?

I'm sorry, when was the last time you bought a game from IGN, Gameinformer, Gametrailers, etc?

They're free online publications, they don't owe you jack-diddly. They can make fun of you all they want, and if your response to them talking about your whining is more whining, then I guess you're just proving them right.

Contrary to popular belief they provide a service and we DO pay them for it. It's called click counts. Every time we view a page, they get money. If we don't view a page, they don't get money. They are directly paid by ad companies and we provide the click counts.

Or did you think they were subsidized by the government/a nonprofit organization?

[SpiderFan1217]

Never heard of this guy, but everything he says has an incredible amount of truth. The video is amusing.

[Deathstroke123]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Torrible wrote...

CGAVnerDune wrote...


I mean can you name any other industry where a producer or provider of goods and services can openly berate, dismiss, and demean their consumers and not suffer financially or be torn apart in the news/media?  

Making baseless, hyperbolic accusations like that is part of the reason why people don't take you guys seriously. Mind elaborating in detail how you are constantly being openly berated, demeaned and dismissed? 

Did, did you miss the video in the OP? Or every article from IGN, GameInformer, Gametrailers, Gamespot, and pretty much every other major news outlet?

Better question: How do you define berate, demean, and dismiss?

I'm sorry, when was the last time you bought a game from IGN, Gameinformer, Gametrailers, etc?

They're free online publications, they don't owe you jack-diddly. They can make fun of you all they want, and if your response to them talking about your whining is more whining, then I guess you're just proving them right.

Contrary to popular belief they provide a service and we DO pay them for it. It's called click counts. Every time we view a page, they get money. If we don't view a page, they don't get money. They are directly paid by ad companies and we provide the click counts.

Or did you think they were subsidized by the government/a nonprofit organization?

And do you know how you get your voice heard about your distaste for a publication in a capitalist society? Money talks FAR louder then words to any for-profit company. So what do you do?

You don't click on it. You don't read it. It's as simple as that. Don't like the fact that Gametrailers just knocked your ice cream out of your hand and totally broke your mellow? Don't go on their website. Stop whining, move on.

Modifié par Deathstroke123, 13 mai 2012 - 09:44 .