211 réponses à ce sujet

[Luigitornado]

Oh hey, this is the first time I agree with Patcher on something.

[babachewie]

Luigitornado wrote...

Oh hey, this is the first time I agree with Patcher on something.

Me too. An almost definite sign of the end times.

[Uber Rod]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Shouldn't the name ArchDuck be on a troll list?

Make your own list. No doubt I'll be on it, but I think I would enjoy the attention. 

You can't be on the list. You don't have a Krogan icon.

[KotorEffect3]

Uber Rod wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Shouldn't the name ArchDuck be on a troll list?

Make your own list. No doubt I'll be on it, but I think I would enjoy the attention. 

You can't be on the list. You don't have a Krogan icon.

Krogans are superior

[Apfelweinbrauer]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Krogans are superior

That's why they are a dying race?

[KotorEffect3]

Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Krogans are superior

That's why they are a dying race?

Not in my playthroughs.  Besides the genophage was deployed out of fear.  It was the only way to stop the Krogan because the Krogan were superior warriors.

[Apfelweinbrauer]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Not in my playthroughs.  Besides the genophage was deployed out of fear.  It was the only way to stop the Krogan because the Krogan were superior warriors.

Well, in your playtrough they will be inevitably stuck on Tuchanka, no matter what you do, so they won't be a big threat.
Unfortunately, they are also inferior thinkers and scientists, which made it quite easy for their enemies to subjugate them by creating the Genophage

[KotorEffect3]

Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Not in my playthroughs.  Besides the genophage was deployed out of fear.  It was the only way to stop the Krogan because the Krogan were superior warriors.

Well, in your playtrough they will be inevitably stuck on Tuchanka, no matter what you do, so they won't be a big threat.
Unfortunately, they are also inferior thinkers and scientists, which made it quite easy for their enemies to subjugate them by creating the Genophage

A sweeping and false generalization when it comes to the Krogan.  If you actualy pay attention they are very intelligent, their problem isn't their intelligence their only problem is the bloodrage and lust for violence.  Though they are beginning to go through social change.

[CavScout]

BABEik52092 wrote...



He just posted this up today on Gametrailers. He basically brings up Mass Effect 3 again and how we are all whiners and not complainers, because we are "sniveling in a peevish, self-pitying way" about the ending by wanting to not buy EA and Bioware products and by possibly having a hand in the "EA Worst Company in America" award.

However, he defines complainers as "respectiful, thoughtful consumers that have an intelligent basis of argument on the issue at hand."

Its just so maddening to see that here he is whining about a minority of whiners among the Mass Effect 3 anti-enders population. We, as a fan base, DO IN FACT have a thoughtful and logical stance and supporting evidence as too why we believe the end to ME3 sucks and as to why we are so vocal about it.

I know most of you here hate Pacher anyway. Only watch the segment if you wanted to see how stupid his argument is.

Whining about someone calling you a whiner.... total win!

[Apfelweinbrauer]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

A sweeping and false generalization when it comes to the Krogan.  If you actualy pay attention they are very intelligent, their problem isn't their intelligence their only problem is the bloodrage and lust for violence.  Though they are beginning to go through social change.

Very intelligent? I tend to disagree...

The only two Krogans in the series that actually display outstanding mental capacity are actually Okeer (scientist) and Wrex(visionary leader).
Okeer inevitably dies in ME2 and at the ending of ME3 Wrex is either dead or trapped in the solar system, so the Krogans won't get him as their leader on Tuchanka.
You could argue that the female Krogan might actually be more thoughtful and may have an advantageus impact on the Krogan society, but with Wrex gone and probably Wreav taking over, I seriously doubt she is going to change that much.

[Orkfaeller]

http://www.youtube.c...PPqdbcVwM#t=18s

I'm sorry...

Modifié par Orkfaeller, 13 mai 2012 - 06:53 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Who is this pacher character and why should I care?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

A sweeping and false generalization when it comes to the Krogan.  If you actualy pay attention they are very intelligent, their problem isn't their intelligence their only problem is the bloodrage and lust for violence.  Though they are beginning to go through social change.

Very intelligent? I tend to disagree...

The only two Krogans in the series that actually display outstanding mental capacity are actually Okeer (scientist) and Wrex(visionary leader).
Okeer inevitably dies in ME2 and at the ending of ME3 Wrex is either dead or trapped in the solar system, so the Krogans won't get him as their leader on Tuchanka.
You could argue that the female Krogan might actually be more thoughtful and may have an advantageus impact on the Krogan society, but with Wrex gone and probably Wreav taking over, I seriously doubt she is going to change that much.

Urdnot Bakara always came across to me as intelligent...

[KotorEffect3]

Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

A sweeping and false generalization when it comes to the Krogan.  If you actualy pay attention they are very intelligent, their problem isn't their intelligence their only problem is the bloodrage and lust for violence.  Though they are beginning to go through social change.

Very intelligent? I tend to disagree...

The only two Krogans in the series that actually display outstanding mental capacity are actually Okeer (scientist) and Wrex(visionary leader).
Okeer inevitably dies in ME2 and at the ending of ME3 Wrex is either dead or trapped in the solar system, so the Krogans won't get him as their leader on Tuchanka.
You could argue that the female Krogan might actually be more thoughtful and may have an advantageus impact on the Krogan society, but with Wrex gone and probably Wreav taking over, I seriously doubt she is going to change that much.

You are confusing intelligence with wisdom, you can be very intelligent but not very wise and via versa.  I don't know how much books smarts he has but Wrex is pretty damn wise because he has learned from experience.

[coomber]

lol oh come on, it's Pachter for crying out loud! The guy is known in the industry as the biggest mouth with the smallest brain. Anyone taking him seriously on this or anything needs to calm down.

[LinksOcarina]

Uber Rod wrote...

johnxtreeme wrote...

 You don't like the ending, and thought Bioware let you down.

OPINION!

Because I don't like the ending to a book, I can't make the author change it.    Saying 'nanananana I won't buy any more of your games EVA!!!!!!!!' is childish and immature.    You can be disappointed, and you can express this on these very forums.  However there isn't a basis for some kind of legal complaint.  

WHY THE HECK should the government spend time on this????  You would have thought they have better things to be doing (I don't know, economy, foreign policy, trade, healthcare, gay rights, immigration..) than checking if a small part of the advertising for a harmless video-game product is accurate.

If Bioware want's to change the ending, and quite frankly they should because it's bad, that's their decision, but those who consider it their 'right' to have a good ending are just making all ME fans look bad. 

There have been numerous examples of authors changing the ending to suit fans (Great Expectations by Charles Dickens to name one). The ending of Fallout 3 was changed because of fan input. Movies frequently change endings based on focus groups. So the statement that we can't get an author to change things is not really valid. And to be fair the ending of ME3 was badly written and executed. It broke narrative cohesiveness and elsewhere on the forums a literary proffesor has verified this. The complaints are valid.

Also if we are getting bad service isn't our last recourse to not do business with the offending establishment ever again? It is not childish and immature. Picketing EA offices or phoning in death threats against EA or Bioware employees is childish and immature. Talking with your wallet is not childish. If EA feels the loss in profits enough they may change their ways. If not then I will help companies more in line with how I, as a consumer, want to be treated. Otherwise EA/Bioware will just keep making bad games in an ever increasing downward spiral because they know the chump customers will just keep buying it. 

Also given that Bioware all along promised us X in the game, but really delivered Y, is it not our "right" to call them on it? After all, we spent a good amount of money expecting one thing but ended up with something else. Even the Better Business Bureau said that such claims of fraud are legitimate. 

Basically Bioware/EA totally bungled the ending. They have a choice of correcting this mistake or risk losing a lot of customers. It's time that the gaming industry be held to the same standards as other industries. If I order a steak for $25 and am given a hamburger, am I correct in asking for a steak? Of course I am. Should I live with the hamburger because I don't have a right to question the cook and have them change? No.

Same with ME3, we just want an ending that makes sense and one that we were promised. 

There is a quote by Neil Gaiman, the guy who wrote the Sandman comics and other really good graphic novels, and I am paraphrasing it here so bear with me.

"If you didn't like my work and you tell me so, thats fine. I approve of that. But never come up to me and demand me to change it for you." - Neil Gaiman.

The quote is from a documentary titled The People vs George Lucas, and honestly I see a lot of parrallels between what is going on there vs what is going on here. The entire documentary focuses on this idea that people love and hate George Lucas because of what he has done with Star Wars,and showcases both sides of the this whole "nerd debate" that people get into; is George right in changing his movies, or are the fans right in the fact that the changes are a monumental insult?

And in the end, it plays down the middle of the whole argument, everyone is right, but everyone is also wrong. There is no true answer here, just like how this is playing out on the BSN and elsewhere on the internet. I do implore you all to check out the documentary, it is on netflix right now and is worth a watch.

As for the OP...Pacher is not a reliable source and once again, gives journalists like me a bad name. He is analayzing it from a business perspective though, but he is too...heavy handed to even showcase a coherent argument.

That said, he does have a point where a lot of people have been rather venomous towards this whole debacle. We see evidence of it all over the place; review bombing, FTA complaints, the random guy who says f*ck BioWare here. So it is not a baseless claim, but it is a over the top one.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 13 mai 2012 - 07:28 .

[Tireces]

He's right to belittle people who did things like try to go to the FTC about the ME3 ending. That was retarded. If he presumes everyone who dislikes the ME3 ending and has expressed that opinion and communicated it to its creators is like that, then he is kind flying in the face of his own point. You don't go to the FTC over the water glass, you don't go to them over a bad game ending. But you can still tell the company you didn't like it and would prefer a better one, just like you can ask for a refill on your water. I'm not sure if he's trying to lump every dissenter into the negative category, but he probably doesn't want to elaborate on the issue for fear of getting caught in the crossfire. For the record though, EA has garnered awards for being a bad company for a number of reasons (they usually provide them with the issuing of the "award"), and I don't think any of them were over ME3's ending being "bad". It seems more to be an issue with the way the whole thing has been handled.

[Taboo]

He has an opinion. He has a right to it.He should not however be using a vocal point like a website to be doing so and not expect backlash.

His opinion and his opinion alone is relevant to his vision of what Mass Effect is. He cannot take your opinion away from you and you his.

[LinksOcarina]

Tireces wrote...

He's right to belittle people who did things like try to go to the FTC about the ME3 ending. That was retarded. If he presumes everyone who dislikes the ME3 ending and has expressed that opinion and communicated it to its creators is like that, then he is kind flying in the face of his own point. You don't go to the FTC over the water glass, you don't go to them over a bad game ending. But you can still tell the company you didn't like it and would prefer a better one, just like you can ask for a refill on your water. I'm not sure if he's trying to lump every dissenter into the negative category, but he probably doesn't want to elaborate on the issue for fear of getting caught in the crossfire. For the record though, EA has garnered awards for being a bad company for a number of reasons (they usually provide them with the issuing of the "award"), and I don't think any of them were over ME3's ending being "bad". It seems more to be an issue with the way the whole thing has been handled.

I wouldn't be so sure...considering that voting thing that happened was right after Mass Effect 3 was released, and it beat Bank of America or something by a 70-30 margin almost...

Honestly, the hate agaisnt EA is not really as valid as other companies in the gaming industry, it just makes EA an easy target because they actually make good games, unlike Activision which no one cares about, Capcom which people ignore, and THQ which is about to go bankrupt.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 13 mai 2012 - 08:32 .

[BABEik52092]

CavScout wrote...

BABEik52092 wrote...



He just posted this up today on Gametrailers. He basically brings up Mass Effect 3 again and how we are all whiners and not complainers, because we are "sniveling in a peevish, self-pitying way" about the ending by wanting to not buy EA and Bioware products and by possibly having a hand in the "EA Worst Company in America" award.

However, he defines complainers as "respectiful, thoughtful consumers that have an intelligent basis of argument on the issue at hand."

Its just so maddening to see that here he is whining about a minority of whiners among the Mass Effect 3 anti-enders population. We, as a fan base, DO IN FACT have a thoughtful and logical stance and supporting evidence as too why we believe the end to ME3 sucks and as to why we are so vocal about it.

I know most of you here hate Pacher anyway. Only watch the segment if you wanted to see how stupid his argument is.

Whining about someone calling you a whiner.... total win!

If you honestly think my post was "whining", you are completely incorrect. All I did was state that I don't believe the majority of ME3 anti-enders should be pushed into the cateogory of whiners because we do have thoughtful reasons as to why we believe the ending was sub-par as a work of entertainment and we are being as respective about it as possible. By the definitions he gave, I am "complaining" and not "whining".

[Omega2079]

Bone3ater wrote...

Total Biscuit wrote...

The thing guys like this, and many of the more aggressive posters in this thread seem to be forgetting is that this is nothing to do with 'whiney' fans.

This is about dissatisfied CUSTOMERS, people who have paid money for a product that they believe was not up to the quality of or contain the content that it was advertised to have. And there is no arguing with the fact that the ending is a massive flaw that has entirely ruined not only ME3, but every other product Bioware put out for a significant number of people. Bioware sold its customers not only a different product to what was expected, but that they used false advertising to for almost 18 months to sell.

It doesn't matter in the slightest if the complaints are emotional and snide, because it's still a paying costumer whose doing it, and both from both a business and legal point of view they should be, and in a very real sense are very important to listen to if Bioware wants to keep selling more product to them in the future.

If you were sold a product you don't like, you have a right to complain in any manner you like as long as it doesn't break any laws. Bioware are thankfully listening to these people, rather than the idiots who seem to have no concept of consumer rights, and have offered both a full refund and to alter their product to try and keep these unsatisfied customers future business.

The people whining about valid customer complaints because they dont like some of the complainers tones are the ones who are irrelevant in all this. The huge customer backlash and potential loss of future earnings are all Bioware and EA are going to give a damn about in all this, unless they're so stupid/arragant/naive as to think themselves above sensible and legal business practices.

Frankly I wonder if the harsh way the gaming journalists are treating the customers is all part of gaming still being seen as something childish and unimportant. It would certainly explain why business and media journalists who don't specialise in gaming are generally on the customers side, because in any other industry, entertainment or otherwise, this situation wouldn't occur, and no one would be seriously attacking the consumer.

It's a shame we've not had more consumer rights watchdogs getting involved really, but again, games still aren't really seen as a legitamate media industry to most people, so I'm not really surprised.

Couldn't agree more. This is exactly why we need defined laws regarding video games. Don't know why we don't already have them.

Laws can't fix these problems. They're always too broadly based and can't account for the many variables in a market. They can never be fair to everyone involved. More laws will only make it worse.

[Fingertrip]

coomber wrote...

lol oh come on, it's Pachter for crying out loud! The guy is known in the industry as the biggest mouth with the smallest brain. Anyone taking him seriously on this or anything needs to calm down.

Find me a source of where he's renowned as that. Or are you just making stuff up to make him look bad, because you're one of the people that actually just whine?

I'm on to you.

[xxskyshadowxx]

Another Journalist on EA's advertising revenue payroll put out a sensationalistic article complaining about folks boycotting EA "because of the ME3 ending"? How... not surprising.

[LinksOcarina]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

Another Journalist on EA's advertising revenue payroll put out a sensationalistic article complaining about folks boycotting EA "because of the ME3 ending"? How... not surprising.

Please, stop with the BS generalizations. It really annoys me when people do that.

[Gen Petitt]

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Whelp, good to see even professionals like to resort to petty name calling and verbal attacks sometimes.