419 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabriana]

AdamJenson wrote...

Now come on folks, you KNOW the movie "Princess Bride" would have been WAY better if just as the hero Westley was about to kiss Buttercup at the end he got hit with an arrow through the throat and fell over dead.  It would have been "serious" and "bittersweet" and all full of "artistic expression" and "artistic integrity" and hipster.  Hipster makes everything better.  

Just ask any hipster (before you grab him by the neck and back of pants and toss his skinny @ss over the railing of a bridge and listen to him scream like a little girl all the way down...)

Tea. All over my desk. Coming out of my nose and mouth. What a pretty picture. Knock it off.

Shepard kicks butt for 2.8 parts of the trilogy. She then proceeds to roll over and play "good dog". No. Just, no. Even If she has to die, my Shepard will not do this. Take your illogical circular silly logic and stick it where the sun don't shine. We might lose, but we will fight for us. Get the hell out of our galaxy. If I wanted a philosophical, psychological, spiritual metaphorical, new 'dark is good' cliche, I would have played a game like that. ME was never like this.

[AdamJenson]

Sabriana wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

Now come on folks, you KNOW the movie "Princess Bride" would have been WAY better if just as the hero Westley was about to kiss Buttercup at the end he got hit with an arrow through the throat and fell over dead.  It would have been "serious" and "bittersweet" and all full of "artistic expression" and "artistic integrity" and hipster.  Hipster makes everything better.  

Just ask any hipster (before you grab him by the neck and back of pants and toss his skinny @ss over the railing of a bridge and listen to him scream like a little girl all the way down...)

Tea. All over my desk. Coming out of my nose and mouth. What a pretty picture. Knock it off.

Shepard kicks butt for 2.8 parts of the trilogy. She then proceeds to roll over and play "good dog". No. Just, no. Even If she has to die, my Shepard will not do this. Take your illogical circular silly logic and stick it where the sun don't shine. We might lose, but we will fight for us. Get the hell out of our galaxy. If I wanted a philosophical, psychological, spiritual metaphorical, new 'dark is good' cliche, I would have played a game like that. ME was never like this.

Shepard can place his hand on the little tyke's shoulder, walk him over to the nearest window facing the correct direction, point at that "star" right. Over. There.  "See it little tyke?  That's the Andromeda galaxy.  It's a bit bigger than the Milkyway galaxy.  Yeah, shiny.  Purdy.  You know what?  You know what?!  That's a BIGGER galaxy than this one! Yeah.  It is, and THAT means it's BETTER!  Don't you want a better galaxy instead of this boring old place?  You know what?  You can HAVE that one!   Yeah!  It will be fun!  You and your reaper friends can run over there and have that big, shiny galaxy over there!"

The kid, all excited jumps around thanking Shepard, skipping, hopping.  Then off they go.  All the reapers just stop their silly nonsense, blow their big tuba horns, and head off to Andromeda galaxy.  Done!   The End.

Modifié par AdamJenson, 30 mai 2012 - 07:39 .

[3DandBeyond]

Sabriana wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

Now come on folks, you KNOW the movie "Princess Bride" would have been WAY better if just as the hero Westley was about to kiss Buttercup at the end he got hit with an arrow through the throat and fell over dead.  It would have been "serious" and "bittersweet" and all full of "artistic expression" and "artistic integrity" and hipster.  Hipster makes everything better.  

Just ask any hipster (before you grab him by the neck and back of pants and toss his skinny @ss over the railing of a bridge and listen to him scream like a little girl all the way down...)

Tea. All over my desk. Coming out of my nose and mouth. What a pretty picture. Knock it off.

Shepard kicks butt for 2.8 parts of the trilogy. She then proceeds to roll over and play "good dog". No. Just, no. Even If she has to die, my Shepard will not do this. Take your illogical circular silly logic and stick it where the sun don't shine. We might lose, but we will fight for us. Get the hell out of our galaxy. If I wanted a philosophical, psychological, spiritual metaphorical, new 'dark is good' cliche, I would have played a game like that. ME was never like this.

I don't want the metaphorical, and so on endings just like you or the dark and sad and sacrificial/authentic ending either, but I will say that even in creating the hogwash that they created, they are master hogwashers.

Someone put it so well in the "we are listening" thread.  The kid (hmm, yeah he's really a kid-I believe this) uses this logic, "I am here to save you from me", so beyond that everything else he says is pure genius.  I am pretty sure all that circular logic is just supposed to cause Shepard's brain to twist around inside the cranium, at which point it will somehow all miraculously make sense. 

It's like this stupid supersmart kid that is not really a kid read some "Parenting" magazines and hit upon the idea of kids rebelling against their parents (Shepard says this to Liara when talking about Benezia) and the glowing intellectual being with no brain figured it sounded good so he'd use it.  And then the brainless wonder, formerly known as Shepard, says, "okey dokey".

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Tried what, exactly?

I can see Shepard arguing more, but in the end the device does what it does. Shep can either use it in one of the three ways it works, or not use it at all.

Arguing is one thing.
Talking to Hackett or other members fo the fleet (Hackett could still communicate with Shepard on the Citadel, remember) Just hearing what others have to say about each ending would have added some variation.

What would the geth say about the Red ending?  How about EDI and Joker?

What would Jacob or Miranda say about Blue?  

What would Mordin say about Green?  Well, besides some high-pitched salarian laughter followed by a "No seriously"

At the very least, these endings need to be reworked to make it seem like SHepard is making an affirmative choice, rather than being herded towards them by the Catalyst.

Hmmm... I don't quite follow how getting opinions from other people makes Shepard's choice any more "affirmative" than it's already portrayed to be. But that's probably a side-effect of me not really being sensitive to the problem you're trying to fix in the first place.

I'm also not sure how well this would work dramatically.

ANd make them less brutal on Shepard and the galaxy.  We're supposed to feel like we accomplished something, not like the Starchild gave us Earth, but not before beatin Shepard up and taking his lunch money.

Which gets us back to the thread topic.

I'm more sanguine about the state of the galaxy than a lot of people are, it seems. We don't have a great deal of data on how the ME-universe economy functions, except that manufacturing capacity is a lot more widely distributed than in the 21st century. This would make recovery easier for them than it would be for us. There also don't seem to be any really vital resources that would absolutely have to be imported through the relay network -- at least, if you're relatively close in real space to a garden world. Clusters without a garden world are done for, since apparently hydroponics, etc. weren't considered cost-effective for supporting space stations.

[Googleness]

*facepalm*
Mass Effect 3 ending was utter crap for 1 sole reason, you destroyed the entire galaxy.

on Arrival we learned that a mass relay exploding takes out an entire star system so you just happened to self destruct every mass relay exist so you destroyed the galaxy! well done.

[RocketManSR2]

Googleness wrote...

*facepalm*
Mass Effect 3 ending was utter crap for 1 sole reason, you destroyed the entire galaxy.

on Arrival we learned that a mass relay exploding takes out an entire star system so you just happened to self destruct every mass relay exist so you destroyed the galaxy! well done.

Actually, while watching the ending again on YT, I do believe that the Crucible changed the function of the relays when the signal beam hit them. The relays are changed to broadcast whatever color you picked (via another pretty shockwave) to that whole system before harmlessly overloading and sending the signal to another relay, then another, and so on. It ensures that whatever choice you made gets broadcast to the entire galaxy, thereby not missing a stray Reaper or two. 

- Yes, I hate the endings. I no longer believe I blew up the galaxy, though. Strand my poor crew to die of thirst or starvation? Yup.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 30 mai 2012 - 09:29 .

[Googleness]

as much as we'll like to believe that we can see the mass relays explode... also the kid says on the station that no matter what u will choose the entire mass relay system gets destroyed.

so what's the point of the entire journey if everything gets smacked?

[3DandBeyond]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Tried what, exactly?

I can see Shepard arguing more, but in the end the device does what it does. Shep can either use it in one of the three ways it works, or not use it at all.

Arguing is one thing.
Talking to Hackett or other members fo the fleet (Hackett could still communicate with Shepard on the Citadel, remember) Just hearing what others have to say about each ending would have added some variation.

What would the geth say about the Red ending?  How about EDI and Joker?

What would Jacob or Miranda say about Blue?  

What would Mordin say about Green?  Well, besides some high-pitched salarian laughter followed by a "No seriously"

At the very least, these endings need to be reworked to make it seem like SHepard is making an affirmative choice, rather than being herded towards them by the Catalyst.

Hmmm... I don't quite follow how getting opinions from other people makes Shepard's choice any more "affirmative" than it's already portrayed to be. But that's probably a side-effect of me not really being sensitive to the problem you're trying to fix in the first place.

I'm also not sure how well this would work dramatically.

ANd make them less brutal on Shepard and the galaxy.  We're supposed to feel like we accomplished something, not like the Starchild gave us Earth, but not before beatin Shepard up and taking his lunch money.

Which gets us back to the thread topic.

I'm more sanguine about the state of the galaxy than a lot of people are, it seems. We don't have a great deal of data on how the ME-universe economy functions, except that manufacturing capacity is a lot more widely distributed than in the 21st century. This would make recovery easier for them than it would be for us. There also don't seem to be any really vital resources that would absolutely have to be imported through the relay network -- at least, if you're relatively close in real space to a garden world. Clusters without a garden world are done for, since apparently hydroponics, etc. weren't considered cost-effective for supporting space stations.

The point being made is that there is no affirmative choice that Shepard
can make.  None of these are ones Shepard would logically choose (at
least not all Shepards).  The game forces you to make choices based upon which seems the least offensive, but they all have aspects that make them equally offensive, and there is no way to reject anything.

The kid is possibly and quite probably lying, so having to make a choice based upon his uh, logic and that does not include smashing his face into some concrete is not an affirmative choice.  All of them could be lies at best.  And there's no real sense that Shepard is forced to make a choice.  Shepard doesn't protest and say, "Harbinger, er, I mean star kid, these choices are stupid, your logic is stupid, I'm not doing anything you say."  That is an affirmative action.  As it is you aren't given any real option to not make a choice, other than getting the critical mission failure.

Allowing some input from others might not make them more affirmative, but maybe more palatable-though I don't even think that's true.  If EDI and whoever leads the geth said go ahead kill me, I still don't think it changes anything because it's still an acceptance of choices that were given to you by the reaper keeper kid.  And I don't think Shepard would trust any of it.

I don't believe that it would necessarily be that easy for them to recover because there is so much that they do that has perhaps relied on what they thought was Prothean tech.  In fact, it seems that there already was some sort of stagnation that had set in since every culture seemed to rely upon some "push" another culture gave them to help them advance in one way or another.  I think it's a real unknown as to how reliant they were on VIs (which could have been reaper tech based) and all this other stuff.

[3DandBeyond]

Googleness wrote...

as much as we'll like to believe that we can see the mass relays explode... also the kid says on the station that no matter what u will choose the entire mass relay system gets destroyed.

so what's the point of the entire journey if everything gets smacked?

This is one widely debated thing-just what type of explosion is it.  Well, there's a codex entry that states that a ruptured relay will destroy all terrestrial worlds within a system.

Desperate Measures---

Destroying a mass relay to stop the Reapers' advance is infeasbile.
Although it has recently been proven that mass relays can be destroyed, a
ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any terrestrial world in
the relay's solar system.


So, good luck getting food from any Earth-like planet.  Good luck finding life on any Earth-like planet.

[0x30A88]

(I might be treading into spoiler territory, but it would be hardly spoilers for most fo you)
I hope for more fleshing out, perhaps this galaxy can rebuild in some cases, either salvaging in best-red or learning through control in best-blue. A happy ending for me is to know that there might be a new intragalactic society, and not isolation. The EC have the potential to do this. To be honest, I care more about what was saved (the galaxy) than whatever happens to Shep's LI.

Gamers can handle getting their character's virtual ass handed to them, but having it by default as a "reward" even how hard the player tries... let the feedback speak for itself.

[3DandBeyond]

Gisle Aune wrote...

(I might be treading into spoiler territory, but it would be hardly spoilers for most fo you)
I hope for more fleshing out, perhaps this galaxy can rebuild in some cases, either salvaging in best-red or learning through control in best-blue. A happy ending for me is to know that there might be a new intragalactic society, and not isolation. The EC have the potential to do this. To be honest, I care more about what was saved (the galaxy) than whatever happens to Shep's LI.

Gamers can handle getting their character's virtual ass handed to them, but having it by default as a "reward" even how hard the player tries... let the feedback speak for itself.

My previous post indicates that if they even follow what they've previously written there can't be any happy ending unless they don't destroy the Mass Relays.  There's a lot they'd have to change.  And there would be isolation and starvation unless they do something about this.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 30 mai 2012 - 09:48 .

[ghost9191]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Googleness wrote...

as much as we'll like to believe that we can see the mass relays explode... also the kid says on the station that no matter what u will choose the entire mass relay system gets destroyed.

so what's the point of the entire journey if everything gets smacked?

This is one widely debated thing-just what type of explosion is it.  Well, there's a codex entry that states that a ruptured relay will destroy all terrestrial worlds within a system.

Desperate Measures---

Destroying a mass relay to stop the Reapers' advance is infeasbile.
Although it has recently been proven that mass relays can be destroyed, a
ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any terrestrial world in
the relay's solar system.


So, good luck getting food from any Earth-like planet.  Good luck finding life on any Earth-like planet.

well i suck at putting things into words but i mean you watch how the first explosion affects earth, which the citadel is a relay which sends the signal out and so on. which if you have the lowest ems it destroys the earth , but any higher and any other option you can see it only affect the reapers. I do not think that any shockwave (other then the one from destroy if your ems is low) will destroy the earth and any other planets in the system. But that is just me, they don't exactly give you alot to go on so meh

and as for isolation, hopefully ftl still works. It might take a bit to get places but atleast they won't be stuck in one system. Unless you have low ems. I am not trying to argue but just saying if they did a better job with details it would've been easier to swallow

Modifié par ghost9191, 30 mai 2012 - 09:58 .

[3DandBeyond]

ghost9191 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

This is one widely debated thing-just what type of explosion is it.  Well, there's a codex entry that states that a ruptured relay will destroy all terrestrial worlds within a system.

Desperate Measures---

Destroying a mass relay to stop the Reapers' advance is infeasbile.
Although it has recently been proven that mass relays can be destroyed, a
ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any terrestrial world in
the relay's solar system.


So, good luck getting food from any Earth-like planet.  Good luck finding life on any Earth-like planet.

well i suck at putting things into words but i mean you watch how the first explosion affects earth, which the citadel is a relay which sends the signal out and so on. which if you have the lowest ems it destroys the earth , but any higher and any other option you can see it only affect the reapers. I do not think that any shockwave (other then the one from destroy if your ems is low) will destroy the earth and any other planets in the system. But that is just me, they don't exactly give you alot to go on so meh

and as for isolation, hopefully ftl still works. It might take a bit to get places but atleast they won't be stuck in one system. Unless you have low ems. I am not trying to argue but just saying if they did a better job with details it would've been easier to swallow

It isn't a shockwave that is shown to destroy the relays but the beam from the Citadel/Crucible.  And this codex entry specifically says, "a rupture".  Every view of the relays shows they have been ruptured.  Which according to this codex means that any terrestrial world is ruined.  That's pretty specific.  If it had been the shockwave that would have a possibly even more devastating effect as shown in the Arrival.  This codex and the Arrival are the only things I have found that describe what happens when a relay explodes and/or ruptures.  In the Arrival, the destruction of the relay destroys everything within the solar system.  In this codex, it merely says terrestrial (earth-like) worlds are ruined.  I take ruined to mean ruined.  And that would be every system in the galaxy and every planet that is habitable by organic life.  That doesn't mean they were destroyed totally but ruined is somewhere between destruction and habitable.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 30 mai 2012 - 11:07 .

[ghost9191]

3DandBeyond wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

This is one widely debated thing-just what type of explosion is it.  Well, there's a codex entry that states that a ruptured relay will destroy all terrestrial worlds within a system.

Desperate Measures---

Destroying a mass relay to stop the Reapers' advance is infeasbile.
Although it has recently been proven that mass relays can be destroyed, a
ruptured relay liberates enough energy to ruin any terrestrial world in
the relay's solar system.


So, good luck getting food from any Earth-like planet.  Good luck finding life on any Earth-like planet.

well i suck at putting things into words but i mean you watch how the first explosion affects earth, which the citadel is a relay which sends the signal out and so on. which if you have the lowest ems it destroys the earth , but any higher and any other option you can see it only affect the reapers. I do not think that any shockwave (other then the one from destroy if your ems is low) will destroy the earth and any other planets in the system. But that is just me, they don't exactly give you alot to go on so meh

and as for isolation, hopefully ftl still works. It might take a bit to get places but atleast they won't be stuck in one system. Unless you have low ems. I am not trying to argue but just saying if they did a better job with details it would've been easier to swallow

It isn't a shockwave that is shown to destroy the relays but the beam from the Citadel/Crucible.  And this codex entry specifically says, "a rupture".  Every view of the relays shows they have been ruptured.  Which according to this codex means that any terrestrial world is ruined.  That's pretty specific.  If it had been the shockwave that would have a possibly even more devastating effect as shown in the Arrival.  This codex and the Arrival are the only things I have found that describe what happens when a relay explodes and/or ruptures.  In the Arrival, the destruction of the relay destroys everything within the solar system.  In this codex, it merely says terrestrial (earth-like) worlds are ruined.  I take ruined to mean ruined.  And that would be every system in the galaxy and every planet that is habitable by organic life.

well i meant the shockwave from the relays when they explode, but  yeah they lack for details. all we have to go on are the codex entries and a few cutscenes,

[AlanC9]

Googleness wrote...

*facepalm*
Mass Effect 3 ending was utter crap for 1 sole reason, you destroyed the entire galaxy.

on Arrival we learned that a mass relay exploding takes out an entire star system so you just happened to self destruct every mass relay exist so you destroyed the galaxy! well done.

Do you actually believe that's what happened?

[AlanC9]

3DandBeyond wrote...

The point being made is that there is no affirmative choice that Shepard
can make.  None of these are ones Shepard would logically choose (at
least not all Shepards).  The game forces you to make choices based upon which seems the least offensive, but they all have aspects that make them equally offensive, and there is no way to reject anything.

Hmmm... so "affirmative" means an option that Shepard is personally completely happy with? I've got the definition right?

The kid is possibly and quite probably lying, so having to make a choice based upon his uh, logic and that does not include smashing his face into some concrete is not an affirmative choice.

Considering the kid's not physical, smashing his face into something would be a neat trick.

If he's lying, what's he trying to do? If he wanted the Reapers to win he could just run out the clock by not telling Shepard anything.

All of them could be lies at best.  And there's no real sense that Shepard is forced to make a choice.  Shepard doesn't protest and say, "Harbinger, er, I mean star kid, these choices are stupid, your logic is stupid, I'm not doing anything you say."  That is an affirmative action.  As it is you aren't given any real option to not make a choice, other than getting the critical mission failure.

So the problem is that you can't say "Screw this, I'm going to just not use the Crucible at all, even if that means the Reapers win"? You can do it, but you can't tell the kid you're doing something that stupid.

I don't believe that it would necessarily be that easy for them to recover because there is so much that they do that has perhaps relied on what they thought was Prothean tech.

Huh? Nobody ever says that any tech will stop working. Just the relays, and artificial life forms will die if your Shep is evil enough to pick red.

[ghost9191]

not sure if evil vs good comes into play at the end, yeah accepting a power that no one should have and enslaving a race is totally the good guy choice, as a paragon you spend how long convincing the illusive man that control is wrong just to turn around and accept it, because you are willing to risk countless lives on the chance you will be able to when the catalyst even asks if you think you can control us. ruthless calculus man. destroy ends it that day, not sure it is evil though. just saying every option you get is "evil" in it's own way

Modifié par ghost9191, 30 mai 2012 - 10:48 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Hmmm... I don't quite follow how getting opinions from other people makes Shepard's choice any more "affirmative" than it's already portrayed to be. But that's probably a side-effect of me not really being sensitive to the problem you're trying to fix in the first place.

I'm also not sure how well this would work dramatically.

Shepard takes everything the Starchild says at face value.  Heck Shepard deosn't even debate the justification fro the cullings.  That's passive.

If Shepard were to take an active role in the decision making, there should be challenges, debates, arguing.  "Your logic makes no sense!"  "This singularity is a self fufillng prophecy" "You were a Spectre, sworn to protect the galaxy"

Similarly, in other Bioware games, when a big choice comes up, people are often there to advocate one side or another.  We know Hackett could still reach Shepard.  Why not others?  If certain NPCs advocated for one gorup or another it could make these chocies seem less disasterous.  

Alliance Officer "Admiral, the geth fleet is breaking off!"
Hackett: "Are they retreating"?
Alliance Officer:  "Negative, they're reforming to, to...sir, they're forming a protective screen around the Crucible!  They're protecting it from Reaper fire!  Incoming message..."
Geth Prime:  ::Extinction is preferable to submission, Shepard-Commander.  Do what must be done::
Hackett:  Shepard, did you get all that?

Miranda:  Shepard, Admiral Hackett patched me through and brought me up to speed.  Look, The Illusive Man was a bloody lunatic at the end, but....I think you should do it
Shepard:  Miranda, are you sure about this.
Miranda:  I'm sure.  I think this Catalyst is full of it  You can't control them if you're dead.  And even if you are, I brought you back once.  And that was without the resources you brought together for the Crucible.  We'll find a way, Shepard.  We'll get you back, somehow.

Shepard can at least look like he's trying to minimize the fallout from them.  In Arrival, SHepard cannot save teh colony.  But Shep can at least try to warn them.  It's something, at least.

Which gets us back to the thread topic.

I'm more sanguine about the state of the galaxy than a lot of people are, it seems. We don't have a great deal of data on how the ME-universe economy functions, except that manufacturing capacity is a lot more widely distributed than in the 21st century. This would make recovery easier for them than it would be for us. There also don't seem to be any really vital resources that would absolutely have to be imported through the relay network -- at least, if you're relatively close in real space to a garden world. Clusters without a garden world are done for, since apparently hydroponics, etc. weren't considered cost-effective for supporting space stations.

I seem to be one of the few people who don't like the endings, but not terribly concerned about the relays.  As far as I'm concerned, as long as they don't do an "Arrival" when they blow, it's a sacrifice worthy of a "bittersweet" ending.

I'm more concerned about the aspect of forced genocide, forced suicide, forced "evolutionary leap", etc.  These are all horrible prices to pay for an ending, to me.  hte galaxy isd going to be frakked up enough as it is.  And the endings, as they stand, force these upon Shepard without a word of protest.  

[3DandBeyond]

AlanC9 wrote...


Hmmm... so "affirmative" means an option that Shepard is personally completely happy with? I've got the definition right?

No, affirmative means partly something someone would choose to do that helps their cause.  They choose it of their free will.  It does not mean everything turns out all sunshine and roses, but it is a choice made freely.  If you are forced into something, the choice is not one you would pick.

In the case of ME3, if Shepard were allowed even to just reject what the kid says and to deny a choice, even if it meant Shepard died instantly, it is still an affirmative choice.

But, it also means making a choice based on logical or provable things.  Something that has been affirmed.  The poster put it correctly.  The game herds the player into making a decision and herds Shepard into doing so as well.  Logical rebuts to what the kid says are not available, nor is any logical action by the player.  Shepard in the real world of the game, must make a choice but is not forced to do so, because Shepard doesn't push the envelope at all.

That is how I see an affirmative choice.

[3DandBeyond]

iakus wrote...

I seem to be one of the few people who don't like the endings, but not terribly concerned about the relays.  As far as I'm concerned, as long as they don't do an "Arrival" when they blow, it's a sacrifice worthy of a "bittersweet" ending.

I'm more concerned about the aspect of forced genocide, forced suicide, forced "evolutionary leap", etc.  These are all horrible prices to pay for an ending, to me.  hte galaxy isd going to be frakked up enough as it is.  And the endings, as they stand, force these upon Shepard without a word of protest.  

Frankly, I've never been overly concerned about the relays because of those things you point out as well.  The relays are the least of the worries, but I point out the only references to their destruction within the game in order to make it clear to people that even in that the game is way off at the end.

The choices are 3 stages of godhood in my opinion and are based on the word of an evil being dressed in sheep's clothing. 

[bleachorange]

@OP

nothing at all. the whole point of all these varied responses is the fact that WE, THE PLAYER, should have had the option to choose whether our ending was happy or not. not have it forced upon us.

whatever happened to a game of choice?

[Iakus]

3DandBeyond wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...


Hmmm... so "affirmative" means an option that Shepard is personally completely happy with? I've got the definition right?

No, affirmative means partly something someone would choose to do that helps their cause.  They choose it of their free will.  It does not mean everything turns out all sunshine and roses, but it is a choice made freely.  If you are forced into something, the choice is not one you would pick.

In the case of ME3, if Shepard were allowed even to just reject what the kid says and to deny a choice, even if it meant Shepard died instantly, it is still an affirmative choice.

But, it also means making a choice based on logical or provable things.  Something that has been affirmed.  The poster put it correctly.  The game herds the player into making a decision and herds Shepard into doing so as well.  Logical rebuts to what the kid says are not available, nor is any logical action by the player.  Shepard in the real world of the game, must make a choice but is not forced to do so, because Shepard doesn't push the envelope at all.

That is how I see an affirmative choice.

This.

An affirmative choice is one that Shepard worked towards and said "This is the best option available"

It is not one that the Catalyst says "This is a choice I deign to give to you"

[Legion64]

Come back from a long vacation and ye still complaining about the ending!

On Topic: Because it's too cliche.