419 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Han Shot First wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Edit: I'll bet first. My bet is that everything I said here will be shown to be true. In addition, Shepard will be able to reunite with his companions if you chose the red ending and have sufficient EMS. So if genocide's your cup of tea, go for it. 500 Bio points for stakes?

I think you'll be right about what is in the EC, but I don't think the existing ending and the EC are exactly the same thing. The EC is Bioware saving face. After so vigorously defending their 'artistic integrity,' they don't want to be seen as making any changes to the ending. Also if major changes were introduced, they are going to have issues with not satisfying everyone and other people accusing them of releasing a game without the complete ending. So the star brat and the A, B, C choice will remain.

That being said, I think Bioware will back away from some of the more unpopular outcomes of those A, B, C choices. I think it was originally the writers intent that the Mass Effect relays going boom did knock the universe back into a more primitive state, but in the EC this will be either downplayed or whitewashed, while Bioware pretends the updated version was the writers intent all along.

To be honest, I would not have minded if the galaxy got knocked back a bit and experienced a "mini Dark Age" if it meant Shepard and crew lived.  It means they're still around to help rebuild and find new roles in a new beginning for the galaxy

Modifié par iakus, 13 mai 2012 - 05:20 .

[NedPepper]

iakus wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Because, if you pay attention, a happy ending was never, ever implied by any of these games. You are fighting a war with sacrifice and have had to make brutal decisions. I EXPECTED Shepard to die before I ever bought the game. In a way, he should. I'm a big believer that characters who constantly put themselves in dangerous, life threatening situations should eventually pay the price. It's a touch of realism. People die in war. Shepard is a SOLDIER.  

Newsflash:  Shepard already died once.  At the start of ME2.  Isn't Shepard unavoidably dying getting a little old?

Yes, soldiers die in war.  Soldiers also live through wars  too..  That's the beauty of having divergent stories, choice and consequences, and multiple endings:  you can have something for everyone.

All this being said, I didn't find it to be a sad ending. There's still a sense of hope. I think Bioware ultimately misread their audience's expectations, which apparently are for rainbows, bunnies, and they lived happily ever after....like a Disney cartoon ...and the strange thing is that that theme WAS NEVER IMPLIED in any of the games in this series. It's like expecting Saving Private Ryan to have "and no one died and they all lived happily ever after."

How many times does it have to be repeated that rainbows, butterlies, and unicorns were not expected?  The fall of Earth alone makes it clear that's not going to happen.  We're not talking about no one dying.  We're talking about Shepard living.  Does the main character's survival really undo the massive amounts of carnage we witnessed in the game and Disneyfy it?

Me I found even the "best" ending unbearably sad, a testament to the futility of choice and the pointleness of expecting any happines in life.  In the end, you die alone and in pain.  Your only option the color of the explosion you die in.

An ending doesn't have to be "happy" to be satisfying. You know how I know this? Years of reading literature and watching great films. I don't know what makes gaming different, but apparently a large portion of the audience expect that. Mario always saves Peach. Link always defeats Gannon. No one dies. They all live happily ever after....

If you can't attack the arguement, attack the arguer...

I addressed the argument.  And quite frankly, after months of the venom on this board, I'm finding it hard to be cordial to the arguer....the people who hate this game have been more vile to Bioware, the devs, people who like it than I could ever be.

[Loaderini]

the problem isn't that there's no happy ending, the problem is that WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HAPPEND TO THE PEOPLE / PLANETS / SHIPS / THINGS / ROBOTS THAT WE MET IN THE WHOLE TRILOGY

[Halie Star]

Nothing is wrong with a Happy ending. We should have a happy ending. Mass Effect 1 & 2 have happy endings, that made it a replay value. I lost track of how many times I playe those two games. With Mass Effect 3, it left me feeling empty and lost.

It's an RPG that should have multiple endings. Please!

[Someone With Mass]

Shepard surviving, rejoining the crew and not plummeting the galaxy into a dark age because some retarded AI told him to would have been good enough of a happy ending to me.

A dark theme doesn't automatically make a story good and a happy theme doesn't automatically make it bad and vise versa.

Besides, if there aren't any motivating parts contributing to the ending, then I don't see any reason for me to replay it at all. Everything I like about the story is destroyed, but they managed to save the galaxy in the process.

Wait...why should I give a damn in that case?

If I don't get a sense of accomplishment from the game, then it's a little pointless to play it at all.

As it is right now, the endings are just ignoring everything the games built up to that point, so I wouldn't mind a happier/better ending at all.

[N7Infernox]

What happened to having multiple endings, each tailored to the different kinds of Shepard/ players out there?

Modifié par N7Infernox, 13 mai 2012 - 05:44 .

[Darman]

I fight not for just one big happy ending. But for the option to achieve one.
To all you that say "oh, those guys want a disney ending but life is no picnic":
If you think a bad/bittersweet ending is better, then for gods sake, choose that option.

But ME builds on decisions that you make. And due to these, a sugarland ending should be achievable as well as the total destruction of the galaxy.

And as I spend a massive amount of time on these games, no not just games, masterpieces, and dedicated my life to them somehow, got deeply emotional about the whole story and the characters, I think we fans deserve our house on Rannoch or blue little babys. At least the possibility.

[Grimwick]

nedpepper wrote...

iakus wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
An ending doesn't have to be "happy" to be satisfying. You know how I know this? Years of reading literature and watching great films. I don't know what makes gaming different, but apparently a large portion of the audience expect that. Mario always saves Peach. Link always defeats Gannon. No one dies. They all live happily ever after....

If you can't attack the arguement, attack the arguer...

I addressed the argument.  And quite frankly, after months of the venom on this board, I'm finding it hard to be cordial to the arguer....the people who hate this game have been more vile to Bioware, the devs, people who like it than I could ever be.

Not getting involved too much here but that was an attack on the arguer if I ever saw one. Ad hominem is a poor fallacy I might add.

[Han Shot First]

Darman wrote...

I fight not for just one big happy ending. But for the option to achieve one.
To all you that say "oh, those guys want a disney ending but life is no picnic":
If you think a bad/bittersweet ending is better, then for gods sake, choose that option. 

A perfect ending that has no negative consequences automatically renders any ending where there are negative consequences, whether those consequences are deaths or greater galactic destruction, a lesser ending. Not many people are going to choose an ending that requires their Shepard to make tactical or strategic blunders.

[DaJe]

N7Infernox wrote...

What happened to having multiple endings, each tailored to the different kinds of Shepard/ players out there?

Oh, you mean like they promised? Don't be silly

[DeinonSlayer]

Han Shot First wrote...

Darman wrote...

I fight not for just one big happy ending. But for the option to achieve one.
To all you that say "oh, those guys want a disney ending but life is no picnic":
If you think a bad/bittersweet ending is better, then for gods sake, choose that option. 

A perfect ending that has no negative consequences automatically renders any ending where there are negative consequences, whether those consequences are deaths or greater galactic destruction, a lesser ending. Not many people are going to choose an ending that requires their Shepard to make tactical or strategic blunders.

That's funny. In ME2, people practically turned that into a science.

Right or wrong, had a "happy ending" been an attainable conclusion in ME3, I'd put money on it that the backlash would have been a fraction of what we saw.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 13 mai 2012 - 06:08 .

[Grimwick]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Darman wrote...

I fight not for just one big happy ending. But for the option to achieve one.
To all you that say "oh, those guys want a disney ending but life is no picnic":
If you think a bad/bittersweet ending is better, then for gods sake, choose that option. 

A perfect ending that has no negative consequences automatically renders any ending where there are negative consequences, whether those consequences are deaths or greater galactic destruction, a lesser ending. Not many people are going to choose an ending that requires their Shepard to make tactical or strategic blunders.

That's funny. In ME2, people practically turned that into a science.

And it was fun! I honestly don't know why priority Earth could not have had the same mechanic. It would have maintained emotional ties to every decision and every consequence.

[DeinonSlayer]

darkness reborn wrote...

I'll just leave this here...

Happy endings never happen in war stories.

Sure they do. You live. Hell, a lot of people in World War 2 (particularly American troops in Britain) met their future spouses as a direct consequence of the war, but for most, a happy ending is simply surviving to go home to the people you care about.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 13 mai 2012 - 06:12 .

[InBleedingRapture]

Oh my... this is certainly getting heated

For the record, I am, personally, not a huge fan of ME3's ending. I've just been arguing that an ending doesn't have to be "happy" -- which, by the way, the more I read, the more I become confused about its' intended meaning -- to be enjoyable.

I think we can all agree that ME3 just leaves too many loose ends and the conclusion of the game just came completely out of left field.

I hate to keep bringing up The Witcher series... but the endings in both games were bittersweet, left you with some very tough choices, and were still satisfying after spending hours plugging away and mulling over plot decisions. Plus, many of the choices made actually influenced the story in a profound way, which is (what I think) what most of us want out of the conclusion to the ME series.

It just feels like going back and getting that "perfect" save game imported from ME1 and ME2 was completely unnecessary when it comes to the last handful of minutes of ME3. Not to mention, how does Shep breathe in outer space when talking to hoodie-star-boy? : P

Modifié par InBleedingRapture, 13 mai 2012 - 06:15 .

[Han Shot First]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Darman wrote...

I fight not for just one big happy ending. But for the option to achieve one.
To all you that say "oh, those guys want a disney ending but life is no picnic":
If you think a bad/bittersweet ending is better, then for gods sake, choose that option. 

A perfect ending that has no negative consequences automatically renders any ending where there are negative consequences, whether those consequences are deaths or greater galactic destruction, a lesser ending. Not many people are going to choose an ending that requires their Shepard to make tactical or strategic blunders.

That's funny. In ME2, people practically turned that into a science.

Right or wrong, had a "happy ending" been an attainable conclusion in ME3, I'd put money on it that the backlash would have been a fraction of what we saw.

Sure, most people had more than one playthrough and killed off characters just to see what would happen. But that isn't the same thing as considering it your canon playthrough.

No one that is looking for an emotional conclusion the game or series is going to metagame to kill squadmates, when it comes at the cost of making Shepard a bumbling incompetent. By its very nature it removes the emotional impact those deaths might have otherwise had.

In ME3, part of the reason why the deaths of Thane and Mordin were so powerful was because they can happen even when Shepard does the right thing. Mordin's death would likely not have produced much waterworks if it was brought about only by Shepard sending Vega to hack a console, instead of Tali.

[DeinonSlayer]

darkness reborn wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

darkness reborn wrote...

I'll just leave this here...

Happy endings never happen in war stories.

Sure they do. You live. Hell, a lot of people in World War 2 (particularly American troops in Britain) met their future spouses as a direct consequence of the war, but for most, a happy ending is simply surviving to go home to the people you care about.

And how many of them suffered form PTSD?

So? I never said they got out without any scars.

[Grimwick]

Han Shot First wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Darman wrote...

I fight not for just one big happy ending. But for the option to achieve one.
To all you that say "oh, those guys want a disney ending but life is no picnic":
If you think a bad/bittersweet ending is better, then for gods sake, choose that option. 

A perfect ending that has no negative consequences automatically renders any ending where there are negative consequences, whether those consequences are deaths or greater galactic destruction, a lesser ending. Not many people are going to choose an ending that requires their Shepard to make tactical or strategic blunders.

That's funny. In ME2, people practically turned that into a science.

Right or wrong, had a "happy ending" been an attainable conclusion in ME3, I'd put money on it that the backlash would have been a fraction of what we saw.

Sure, most people had more than one playthrough and killed off characters just to see what would happen. But that isn't the same thing as considering it your canon playthrough.

No one that is looking for an emotional conclusion the game or series is going to metagame to kill squadmates, when it comes at the cost of making Shepard a bumbling incompetent. By its very nature it removes the emotional impact those deaths might have otherwise had.

And yet at the same time the canon endings we have are just bitter. Hell nothing makes me feel any other emotion than sadness. There's no happiness, no hope, nothing. We just get screwed over. So what's the point in an 'emotional canon ending' if it's one of bleakness and futility?
My canon ending is a headcanon and I don't see how the emotional impact of an unhappy event justifies the non-existance of an emotional happy ending. Should there be an option? Yes, as a result of your decisions. 

[DeinonSlayer]

Han Shot First wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Darman wrote...

I fight not for just one big happy ending. But for the option to achieve one.
To all you that say "oh, those guys want a disney ending but life is no picnic":
If you think a bad/bittersweet ending is better, then for gods sake, choose that option. 

A perfect ending that has no negative consequences automatically renders any ending where there are negative consequences, whether those consequences are deaths or greater galactic destruction, a lesser ending. Not many people are going to choose an ending that requires their Shepard to make tactical or strategic blunders.

That's funny. In ME2, people practically turned that into a science.

Right or wrong, had a "happy ending" been an attainable conclusion in ME3, I'd put money on it that the backlash would have been a fraction of what we saw.

Sure, most people had more than one playthrough and killed off characters just to see what would happen. But that isn't the same thing as considering it your canon playthrough.

No one that is looking for an emotional conclusion the game or series is going to metagame to kill squadmates, when it comes at the cost of making Shepard a bumbling incompetent. By its very nature it removes the emotional impact those deaths might have otherwise had.

In ME3, part of the reason why the deaths of Thane and Mordin were so powerful was because they can happen even when Shepard does the right thing. Mordin's death would likely not have produced much waterworks if it was brought about only by Shepard sending Vega to hack a console, instead of Tali.

My first playthrough I got through without losses.

In my canon playthough, I lost Legion and Miranda. I don't view myself as having "failed" because of it. Also, based on your prior choices, Mordin's death is not inevitable, but that doesn't lessen its emotional impact.

You might not play that way, but others do. Variety of outcomes is where replay value comes from.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 13 mai 2012 - 06:25 .

[Han Shot First]

Grimwick wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Darman wrote...

I fight not for just one big happy ending. But for the option to achieve one.
To all you that say "oh, those guys want a disney ending but life is no picnic":
If you think a bad/bittersweet ending is better, then for gods sake, choose that option. 

A perfect ending that has no negative consequences automatically renders any ending where there are negative consequences, whether those consequences are deaths or greater galactic destruction, a lesser ending. Not many people are going to choose an ending that requires their Shepard to make tactical or strategic blunders.

That's funny. In ME2, people practically turned that into a science.

Right or wrong, had a "happy ending" been an attainable conclusion in ME3, I'd put money on it that the backlash would have been a fraction of what we saw.

Sure, most people had more than one playthrough and killed off characters just to see what would happen. But that isn't the same thing as considering it your canon playthrough.

No one that is looking for an emotional conclusion the game or series is going to metagame to kill squadmates, when it comes at the cost of making Shepard a bumbling incompetent. By its very nature it removes the emotional impact those deaths might have otherwise had.

And yet at the same time the canon endings we have are just bitter. Hell nothing makes me feel any other emotion than sadness. There's no happiness, no hope, nothing. We just get screwed over. So what's the point in an 'emotional canon ending' if it's one of bleakness and futility?
My canon ending is a headcanon and I don't see how the emotional impact of an unhappy event justifies the non-existance of an emotional happy ending. Should there be an option? Yes, as a result of your decisions. 

To be clear, I'm not defending the existing endings. Bioware was aiming for bittersweet but it was very badly executed. But bittersweet does not equal bad.

A good ending can be either bittersweet or happy. You can find plenty of examples of both in film and in books.

[lillitheris]

Oops, wrong happy ending.

Modifié par lillitheris, 13 mai 2012 - 06:26 .

[rwilli80]

Because happy endings are not legal in a lot of areas

[Someone With Mass]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

darkness reborn wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

darkness reborn wrote...

I'll just leave this here...

Happy endings never happen in war stories.

Sure they do. You live. Hell, a lot of people in World War 2 (particularly American troops in Britain) met their future spouses as a direct consequence of the war, but for most, a happy ending is simply surviving to go home to the people you care about.

And how many of them suffered form PTSD?

So? I never said they got out without any scars.

We also already have had a lot of sacrifices in ME3. It doesn't mean that they will all be for naught if there's a happy ending. Hell, that's the reason some of those sacrifices were made. So the rest could live happily.

Take Legion's, Thane's and Mordin's sacrifices, for example. I'd say that they were wasted on the current "bittersweet" endings.