42 réponses à ce sujet

[Deflagratio]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

Torias wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...
You can then equip the massive Armors, and unequip the STR+ equipment, and your armors will remain on.

Enh, I would go around planning your character on that. It certainly sounds like unintended behavior, and I'd bet there's a chance it might get fixed some time.

I doubt it. I mean, sit back for a second and thing. Is that really something that would get patched? Mind you Manaclash is still in the game. As long as that still exists, this has no chance of getting "Fixed"

Erm in some respects it is kind of fixed in the game as it is. For example the other day when I recruited Zevran into my group, he was just 14 and had about 5 points below the required strength beneath what he needed to wield the longsword he starts off with. Can't remember when but at some point I was dabbling looking at his gear and suddenly noticed his longsword had been unequipped and his dagger moved to main hand. It was at this point I noticed he didn't have the strength requirement for his sword. I have seen it also before where like you I had boosted the stats up using items so that a member could equip an item and then given the strength boosting items to someone else and eventually the gear was removed from the character.

So it is obviously going to be very easy for them to fix it as the system is kind of in place already.

Also this has more chance of being fixed than manaclash being removed namely because it affects all characters not just mages.

You switched his weapon sets. That's why I didn't recomend using this for weapons. When you hit the switch button, it will unequip it when you try and put it back on, without having the stat requirement.


As for the persistant thought that it'll get fixed. I still say no. Ask yourselves a few questions.

1.Does it really break the game from a technical standpoint?
2.Does it break the game from a balance standpoint?
3.Does its impact on the game warrant effort to fix?
4.Does it have a positive impact on the game?
5.Was this actually intended?

1-4 are subjective. 5 can only be answered by a developer. Weigh the pros and cons of this "glitch" and pretend you are a developer, even if this is a bug, would YOU remove it?


As for ManaClash... Only effects mages huh? So if there was an instant kill move for Darkspawn or Dragons, that'd be okay too?

Modifié par Deflagratio, 09 décembre 2009 - 10:45 .

[Gliese]

Rainen89 wrote...

Right...except you can..do both?

I'm trying to make this poll sensible. 

[Naxarrath]

Gliese wrote...

If I could only buff strength or only dex on my tank I would go strength so I could wear armour.

I would go for dex, what is point of wearing armor if mobs wont even hit you.

[Yummyclaw]

To me it's St for armor then

ALL CON
or All DEX

Con isn't useless, you just can't halfway. +10 HP a level is awesome with high armor.

[Deflagratio]

To actually answer the question now.



1.DEX

2.WIL

3.CON



A "one or nothing" doesn't work for a tank like it does a Damage Dealer or a Mage. Generally how I do it, is after I can equip the armor I want on my tank, it goes 2dex every level and 1 in CON or WIL depending on what I feel I need. If you're not controlling your tank, WIL becomes a little more important, so the tank doesn't spurt out all his stamina on 1 taunt.

[Gliese]

Naxarrath wrote...

Gliese wrote...

If I could only buff strength or only dex on my tank I would go strength so I could wear armour.

I would go for dex, what is point of wearing armor if mobs wont even hit you.

The thing is they will still hit you, and your tank would do no damage, unlike with strength. You'd also lose out on whatever abilities you'd get from wearing armour, like boost to attributes, magic resistance or whatever.

[Naxarrath]

Gliese wrote...

The thing is they will still hit you, and your tank would do no damage, unlike with strength. You'd also lose out on whatever abilities you'd get from wearing armour, like boost to attributes, magic resistance or whatever.

With high dex they hardly ever hit, there are more items than just armor that increase spell resistance too and how often you need spell resistance? Mages drop like flys when focused and melee will focus on your tank after 1 taunt so no issue there.

[Gliese]

Naxarrath wrote...

Gliese wrote...

The thing is they will still hit you, and your tank would do no damage, unlike with strength. You'd also lose out on whatever abilities you'd get from wearing armour, like boost to attributes, magic resistance or whatever.

With high dex they hardly ever hit, there are more items than just armor that increase spell resistance too and how often you need spell resistance? Mages drop like flys when focused and melee will focus on your tank after 1 taunt so no issue there.

Well I can't say I ever got above 105 defense or so on Alistair in my first playthrough but he seemed to get hit alot. There's also effects like stun knockdown etc that will give the enemy a much greater chance to hit you, with no armour the tank would go down fast.
Perhaps a close to all-dex build would be interesting to try as a tank though, perhaps a dual dagger (with patch) warrior. Rogues generate 25% less threat and have no taunt so they're no good even though the evasion talent would be sweet on such a deal.
Nevertheless, I'd take strength if only for the beneficial aspects of actually being able to help kill things, killing things faster also negates damage to party after all.

Modifié par Gliese, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:26 .

[AXidenT Gamer]

How much Dex would you need to avoid nearly all hits?

[JJM152]

The problem with CON is that you have to go all in. 

Think of it this way - DEX is avoidance against physical attacks - to a degree anyway. CON on the other hand is mitigation against all damage, fireballs, shocks, chain lightning, traps, busses, whatever.

The only point of contention is if you can set your character up so that his armor + hit points is enough to survive the encounter. If it is, then CON is probably better all around. If it's not, then DEX is probably better.

The best (optimal) configuration for a sword and board warrior who just tanks is probably just enough DEX to get the last shield talent, just enough STR to wear massive armor, and then the rest in CON. Admittidly DEX is kind of iffy, because the hit chance formula is something like:

ATTACK - DEFENSE with a floor of 5% and a ceiling of 95%

That means that any DEX (DEFENSE really) that you have past that floor of 5% is worthless from a defensive standpoint. Really what you want to hit is the sweet spot where you floor most attacks against stuff you are fighting, and then dump any extra points into CON.

It would be cool if the journal kept track of not just your hit rate, but also the enemies hit rate on you...

Modifié par JJM152, 09 décembre 2009 - 12:42 .

[Gecon]

With a 100% spell resistance build, I dont have to bother with any spells any more. That means, I can go for Dex, which will give me both evasion as well as attack bonus, which in turn will make my aggro better.

[DragoonKain3]

I don't even bother getting enough STR to wear Massive Armor (going at 26 STR, 22 STR if PC due to fade bonuses). Why?

1) Pointless in getting more armor mitigation when you won't be hit in the first place. And no, armor does NOT help against damage that comes from spells

2) 100% spell resistance via equips is nice, but considering there exists Mana Clash, Neutralization Glyph, or Anti-magic ward, I'd rather get 16 more points of defense by going with 26 STR.

3) Dragon grabs in Nightmare will kill your tank regardless of hp or armor, unless you FF or CC the dragon


Also note that if you don't have enough STR to equip your weapons (ie. you removed an accessory/armor that increased your STR to fulfill the reqs for that weapon), and you switch your weapon slots, it will unequip if you switch back. Only matters if you switch slots... if you always keep the same weapons, then its no problem.

ATTACK - DEFENSE with a floor of 5% and a ceiling of 95%

NOTHING in combat_h.nss (ie. the script that handles to hit percentages) even so much implies there is a floor or a ceiling. Even Discorbird hasn't found anything of the sort either. I can have my dodge tank stand in the middle of 20+ trash mobs and NEVER get hit by something that requires a hitroll. So pray tell me where you get this conclusion, or is this just some sort of DnD bias spilling over?

In any case, it's better to be safe than sorry. Besides, pumping DEX improves their damage output regardless, since daggers are bar none the best weapons in the game, so its not like its a wasted point even once you hit 100% evasion rate.

[Discobird]

Yeah, unlike every other WRPG, Dragon Age doesn't seem to clamp chance to hit between 5% and 95%. It is possible to achieve 0% hit rate or 100% hit rat.

[Taleroth]

Deflagratio wrote...

Torias wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...
You can then equip the massive Armors, and unequip the STR+ equipment, and your armors will remain on.

Enh, I would go around planning your character on that. It certainly sounds like unintended behavior, and I'd bet there's a chance it might get fixed some time.

I doubt it. I mean, sit back for a second and thing. Is that really something that would get patched? Mind you Manaclash is still in the game. As long as that still exists, this has no chance of getting "Fixed"

Because they totally didn't fix shimmering shield.

[Siven80]

Deflagratio wrote...

Tonya777 wrote...

That wastes up valuable slots that could have better things in them like the spellward , lifegiver , key to the city , andruits blessing , and so forth

Re-read please... You can Unequip the STR+ items after you equip the armor. The Armor will remain on. You can then equip whatever accessories you want. The only thing you lose is maybe 2 or 3 minutes of sorting through accessories.

This works for Dexterity too. And Magic, but generally you'll keep all magic+ equipment on regardless. And if you're a mage, if you can't equip something because you magic rating is too low.. well... find a new game.

I wouldnt rely on this staying like it is btw. The fact that once you unequip those stat boost items, the items that require more Str (or whatever stat) than you have show that stat in red tells me its a small bug, an unintended side effect and will be patched in the future imo.

Sure theres no harm in using it now if you really want to, but personally thats just a little too lame for me.

Best tanking stat IMO is Dex atm (after 42Str). Boosts defense, attack and physical resistance...whats not to love. You gain 6hp per level as a Warrior which is nice, so you dont need a lot of con but i do put 1 into con every 2 levels. I typically alternate every level with 2 Dex and 1 Wil/ 2 Dex 1 Con after i get to 42 Str.

Modifié par Siven80, 09 décembre 2009 - 04:07 .

[Discobird]

IIRC, Georg has said that they were aware of this "feature" where you can unequip gear that is helping you meet the reqs for another item, but deliberately chose not to fix it (I think he said it wasn't worth the resources?). So I wouldn't count on it getting patched.

[Siven80]

Makes sense as its not gamebreaking tbh.

[Gliese]

I still consider it an exploit so I wont use it but to each his own.