739 réponses à ce sujet

[Sisterofshane]

balance5050 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

I would be ok with IT starting at the beam if the end sequence between anderson, shep andTIM wasnt so damn great. As it stands now i want IT to start at the elevator

One version of the IT accounts for this.

I think IT loses a lot of credence if the whole ending is not some type of hallucination.

It would make no sense that the Reaper's attempt to indoctrinate Shepard would include a way for him to mentally resist - either the Reapers made up the entire scene (including the option to destroy) or they didn't and it's all to be taken at face value.

[balance5050]

Sisterofshane wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

I would be ok with IT starting at the beam if the end sequence between anderson, shep andTIM wasnt so damn great. As it stands now i want IT to start at the elevator

One version of the IT accounts for this.

I think IT loses a lot of credence if the whole ending is not some type of hallucination.

It would make no sense that the Reaper's attempt to indoctrinate Shepard would include a way for him to mentally resist - either the Reapers made up the entire scene (including the option to destroy) or they didn't and it's all to be taken at face value.

Oh I agree, I personally think the dream starts right when the Mako crashed, directly before the beam run.

[PlumPaul93]

araisikewai wrote...Both, but at this point most are already grasping at straws...
Don't you think the strangest thing is BW reaction to the fans that's saying about IT? 
They keep their poker face saying that's it's neither true nor false.
Almost politician like of saying 'no comment.'

And another thing...
WHO exactly is the first one to circle out the rumor of IT? Can anyone be sure that s/he was not one of the BW dev themselves doing rumor mongering...? 

At this point I'd rather try to read their poker face than delving to deep into IT.
You might try to take my read on this underneath though.
It quite TL;DR stuff but most response was saying that it's also quite logical.

Okay then, though I have no clue why you guys still believe that Bioware planned this. I'd be more willing to listen to the IT fans if you at least admitted this wasn't their plan and just thought this was the best way for the endings to get better.

[Agugaboo]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

araisikewai wrote...Both, but at this point most are already grasping at straws...
Don't you think the strangest thing is BW reaction to the fans that's saying about IT? 
They keep their poker face saying that's it's neither true nor false.
Almost politician like of saying 'no comment.'

And another thing...
WHO exactly is the first one to circle out the rumor of IT? Can anyone be sure that s/he was not one of the BW dev themselves doing rumor mongering...? 

At this point I'd rather try to read their poker face than delving to deep into IT.
You might try to take my read on this underneath though.
It quite TL;DR stuff but most response was saying that it's also quite logical.

Okay then, though I have no clue why you guys still believe that Bioware planned this. I'd be more willing to listen to the IT fans if you at least admitted this wasn't their plan and just thought this was the best way for the endings to get better.

Noone knows what Bioware was/is thinking. It's a theory. We'll know when the EC comes out.

[PlumPaul93]

Agugaboo wrote...Noone knows what Bioware was/is thinking. It's a theory. We'll know when the EC comes out.

If most IT followers took that approach I really wouldn't mind them. Unfortunately that isn't happening.

[Sisterofshane]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Agugaboo wrote...Noone knows what Bioware was/is thinking. It's a theory. We'll know when the EC comes out.

If most IT followers took that approach I really wouldn't mind them. Unfortunately that isn't happening.

What qualifies to you as most?  Do you even truly know how many people actually believe that IT will apply to the extended cut?

Or do you assume that a few loud (and sometimes rude) people speak for everyone that, in some way, believe in the logic and evidence behind the metaphorical interpretation of the endings?

[KevShep]

Sisterofshane wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

I would be ok with IT starting at the beam if the end sequence between anderson, shep andTIM wasnt so damn great. As it stands now i want IT to start at the elevator

One version of the IT accounts for this.

I think IT loses a lot of credence if the whole ending is not some type of hallucination.

It would make no sense that the Reaper's attempt to indoctrinate Shepard would include a way for him to mentally resist - either the Reapers made up the entire scene (including the option to destroy) or they didn't and it's all to be taken at face value.

The reapers CANT just change your thought process. They have to "trick" you into giving into there "suggestions" Willingly!

[KevShep]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

araisikewai wrote...Both, but at this point most are already grasping at straws...
Don't you think the strangest thing is BW reaction to the fans that's saying about IT? 
They keep their poker face saying that's it's neither true nor false.
Almost politician like of saying 'no comment.'

And another thing...
WHO exactly is the first one to circle out the rumor of IT? Can anyone be sure that s/he was not one of the BW dev themselves doing rumor mongering...? 

At this point I'd rather try to read their poker face than delving to deep into IT.
You might try to take my read on this underneath though.
It quite TL;DR stuff but most response was saying that it's also quite logical.

Okay then, though I have no clue why you guys still believe that Bioware planned this. I'd be more willing to listen to the IT fans if you at least admitted this wasn't their plan and just thought this was the best way for the endings to get better.

We dont know one way or another. The things that people have been finding that support the I.T. are enough (for most) to say "now I know what Bioware ment by artistic intergity"!

[jla0644]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...
If IT is true, it will be the second Bioware game that had a fake ending with the player being indoctrinated into thinking they won.  With credits and everything.

Except the fact that the other game had a clear second ending, ME doesn't. It would be the first where the only ending is fake.

Right, ME3 doesn't have a clear ending... yet. Summer is coming, just be patient.

And after you will still be pushing IT no matter what the DLC says/shows.

Was thinking about this the other day. When the EC is released and all we get is a few more shots of War Assets, a few more lines of dialogue with the Catalyst, and some epilogue cut scenes showing what happens to the Normandy, etc, this still isn't going to be over.

The only way it's ever going to go away is if Hudson or Walters or someone from the ME team comes out and says "We did NOT intend Shepard to be indoctrinated at the end, not in any way shape or form" (and they never will imo). Anything less and, like any True Believer, they will still be able to make it work.

Modifié par jla0644, 14 mai 2012 - 12:35 .

[CavScout]

jla0644 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...
If IT is true, it will be the second Bioware game that had a fake ending with the player being indoctrinated into thinking they won.  With credits and everything.

Except the fact that the other game had a clear second ending, ME doesn't. It would be the first where the only ending is fake.

Right, ME3 doesn't have a clear ending... yet. Summer is coming, just be patient.

And after you will still be pushing IT no matter what the DLC says/shows.

Was thinking about this the other day. When the EC is released and all we get is a few more shots of War Assets, a few more lines of dialogue with the Catalyst, and some epilogue cut scenes showing what happens to the Normandy, etc, this still isn't going to be over.

The only way it's ever going to go away is if Hudson or Walters or someone from the ME team comes out and says "We did NOT intend Shepard to be indoctrinated at the end, not in any way shape or form" (and they never will imo). Anything less and, like any True Believer, they will still be able to make it work.

You're right. A number of the most Indoctrination Theory Ardents will believe IT not matter what happens with the EC. To many cling to the notion that if they are not specifically disproved then they are correct.

[Sisterofshane]

CavScout wrote...

jla0644 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...
If IT is true, it will be the second Bioware game that had a fake ending with the player being indoctrinated into thinking they won.  With credits and everything.

Except the fact that the other game had a clear second ending, ME doesn't. It would be the first where the only ending is fake.

Right, ME3 doesn't have a clear ending... yet. Summer is coming, just be patient.

And after you will still be pushing IT no matter what the DLC says/shows.

Was thinking about this the other day. When the EC is released and all we get is a few more shots of War Assets, a few more lines of dialogue with the Catalyst, and some epilogue cut scenes showing what happens to the Normandy, etc, this still isn't going to be over.

The only way it's ever going to go away is if Hudson or Walters or someone from the ME team comes out and says "We did NOT intend Shepard to be indoctrinated at the end, not in any way shape or form" (and they never will imo). Anything less and, like any True Believer, they will still be able to make it work.

You're right. A number of the most Indoctrination Theory Ardents will believe IT not matter what happens with the EC. To many cling to the notion that if they are not specifically disproved then they are correct.

And your proof of this is...???

[araisikewai]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

araisikewai wrote...Both, but at this point most are already grasping at straws...
Don't you think the strangest thing is BW reaction to the fans that's saying about IT? 
They keep their poker face saying that's it's neither true nor false.
Almost politician like of saying 'no comment.'

And another thing...
WHO exactly is the first one to circle out the rumor of IT? Can anyone be sure that s/he was not one of the BW dev themselves doing rumor mongering...? 

At this point I'd rather try to read their poker face than delving to deep into IT.
You might try to take my read on this underneath though.
It quite TL;DR stuff but most response was saying that it's also quite logical.

Okay then, though I have no clue why you guys still believe that Bioware planned this. I'd be more willing to listen to the IT fans if you at least admitted this wasn't their plan and just thought this was the best way for the endings to get better.

There have been numerous hints that BW have been pondering about applying indoctrination mechanism into the game. What we can't be 100% sure about is even if the ending sequence is where they trully show their hand, which part of it was, and which wasn't.

But there are the traces, judging from the strings to the marionette that BW pulls:
- Codex Entry for the reapers AND indoctrination only added in ME3, signifying its importance
- Numerous file that have been cracked found out that:
  1. texture for the trees where Joker emerged at the end named dream foliage. 'Is joker emerged all in a dream?'
  2. texture for Control tube called Bad_ending...? (well, one can argue texture for all ending should be called bad_ending)
- ME3 was meant to end Shepard's story, stated multiple times in multiple interview. While some interview say that they might never do something like this [spanning savegame for 3 games] again, none says this is end of the franchise. Instead,
- ME3 was stated as the perfect starting point into the franchise.

Now next is my own theory:
For the next game to happen BW needs a way to end Shepard's story AND tie it up as 1 single canon without taking away the illusion of choice. Clearly BW has been wanting a clean slate to work on this franchise, now that it's becoming a household name.
The question is: 'Is IT their answer?' It might.
'Is it implemented successfully?' It didn't. That's why EC should address this problem.
'Should BW clearly state that IT was their intention?' They could, but in my view, until we could see where they are taking the direction for the next game (and believe me it definitely will happen to the next gen console), until then , they shouldn't. That's their card to keep. To surprise us if you will.

[steve1868]

Is it just me, or does the kid that gets blown up on earth/bad dream boy, look exactly like the magic space ghost/catalyst? Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else. I kept looking but never saw it addressed.

[balance5050]

steve1868 wrote...

Is it just me, or does the kid that gets blown up on earth/bad dream boy, look exactly like the magic space ghost/catalyst? Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else. I kept looking but never saw it addressed.

It's the same kid.

[Sisterofshane]

steve1868 wrote...

Is it just me, or does the kid that gets blown up on earth/bad dream boy, look exactly like the magic space ghost/catalyst? Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else. I kept looking but never saw it addressed.

Actually, whether you look at the ending as a metaphor or as face-value, this was meant to be purposeful.  The Catalyst takes the form of the vent-kid, probably because it feels it will make Shepard more sympathetic to what it had to say.