284 réponses à ce sujet

[JabberJaww]

I must be crazy, but nudity in a video game is usually not near the top of my list when looking for one to play.



I could care less, a great game is a great game.

[Sam -stone- serious]

Bibdy wrote...

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

+1 i never really understood why some things need to be shown OR  why its such a big issue when they do. I dont really care either way especially when a game has a 18+ tag on it.

You would care if an excellent game wasn't available in your entire country because you can't disable the full-frontal-nudity.

Would i?  I would find other means of getting my paws on the game if it was banned for whatever reason anyway but thats probably just me.

[MerinTB]

Torias wrote...

fro7k wrote...

Torias wrote...

Some countries have stricter censorship and classification standards when it comes to nudity and sexual content as opposed to violence and gore.
Bioware are just operating within the world we live in.

I'm in the UK and God of War had naked breasts in it.  Versions in other countries gave the ladies a bra (possibly including US, not sure).  So they could, I assume, have compromised the game only when the censorship of a particular country demanded it.

That might have been ideal, yes. The Witcher was the same, the german version had naked cleavage on ladies, the american version had it covered up.

I do think game companies need to get on the band-wagon with this like films - Austin Powers had to change it's title, and films have different edits for different countries (Pearl Harbor in Japan, for example) - I don't think all countries should suffer for one country's stupid laws (yes, even if it is my country's stupid laws.)

And then the mildly competent and smarter of us can get the other country's version (like The Witcher and Indigo Prophecy) and the game companies can fell all safe having followed each country's bizzaro rules.

[MerinTB]

DM Veil wrote...

I want to know why there's all this complaining because an adult game doesn't have nudity. I didn't realize it was a necessity for games these days.

I want to know why everytime someone brings this topic up people come out of the woodwork to try to shame or insult those who are not afraid of themselves (or their children) seeing a woman's breast.

[SheffSteel]

At the end of the day, any given parent can feel pretty sure that their child is very very unlikely to ever be involved in any lethal act of violence, so there is really nothing to worry about. Sex, on the other hand, could happen to anyone... and that's why it is so scary.

And that is why it's considered acceptable for games to explicitly depict acts of horrific violence but not of sexual love.

[Invalidcode]

classy nudity isn't a problem, but in this world you got things like Fox news and people that believe Fox news...



And there is legal problem etc in different region.

[Bibdy]

MerinTB wrote...

I want to know why everytime someone brings this topic up people come out of the woodwork to try to shame or insult those who are not afraid of themselves (or their children) seeing a woman's breast.

I want to know why someone with an agenda like that feels that lack of full-frontal nudity is a concern.

If you're okay with your kids seeing breasts, great. Why does DA:O need to have them, though? Are you trying to force-feed your kid some boobs? Shouldn't they be a little old for that? 

[Bibdy]

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Would i?  I would find other means of getting my paws on the game if it was banned for whatever reason anyway but thats probably just me.

You might, but you aren't going to be all sunshine and farts happy about having to do it. Nor are thousands of others.

[steelfire_dragon]

there is a package at one of the sites you know that adds the Adujlt only ratings package

[LaztRezort]

SheffSteel wrote...

Sex, on the other hand, could happen to anyone... and that's why it is so scary.

This sounds so... sad (taking quotes out of context is fun

Seriously, I agree with that this idea is popularly held, but I don't necessarily agree with the idea itself.  Particularly:  that a 17-year boy old seeing nudity in a video game is going to be any more presuaded to go fertalize some other teenager more so than his hormones are already doing.  I'm only speaking from the male perspective, here, of course.

That's not to say that I think BW (or anyone else) needs to put nudity in a game.  It would seem more logical, however, if video games were treated to the same censorship logic that other media (such as movies) is.

[MerinTB]

Bibdy wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

I want to know why everytime someone brings this topic up people come out of the woodwork to try to shame or insult those who are not afraid of themselves (or their children) seeing a woman's breast.

I want to know why someone with an agenda like that feels that lack of full-frontal nudity is a concern.

If you're okay with your kids seeing breasts, great. Why does DA:O need to have them, though? Are you trying to force-feed your kid some boobs? Shouldn't they be a little old for that? 

Actually, my daughter is nursing right now as she's 5 months old.  But thanks for the irrelevant comment.

Why does there need to be horrid amounts of gore?  Brothels?  You quest to install a monarch, since most of the world has long ago done away with such dictatorships?  Why have ANY objectional material in a game that kids could play and give them bad ideas?

SheffSteel wrote ...
At the end of the day, any given parent can feel pretty sure that their
child is very very unlikely to ever be involved in any lethal act of
violence, so there is really nothing to worry about. Sex, on the other
hand, could happen to anyone... and that's why it is so scary.

And that is why it's considered acceptable for games to explicitly depict acts of horrific violence but not of sexual love.

I see this offered up often.  It is, of course, silly.
Sex is not bad.  Unsafe sex, at the wrong time with the wrong people, can be bad, but so can driving a car or walking down a certain street at the wrong time of day in the wrong part of town.
I'm not one to want anything banned from media because it might give kids ideas, but really the above argument seems to boil down to -
"Adults aren't really concerned that their kids will pick up a chainsaw and hockey mask, or swords and axes, but they are concerned their kids will get aroused seeing other kids and want to fool around - so remove all instances of the latter from their media as we don't want to encourage them."
It is a very stupid way to look at things.  It is always better to be open, honest, and explain things to kids than it is to shelter them away from "the bad."

As for kids not being violent - Columbine?  The very little kids who brought a gun to school and shot his grade school classmate in Michigan?  Do you really not know how many kids bring guns and knives to schools?  Inner-city schools have metal detectors for a reason.
Again, I do not agree with censoring media to protect kids, BUT if you are using the argument that kids will want to have sex because they see sex on a game (like, you know, Sheppard with an ALIEN, or a Grey Warden with an Elf) or tv show or movie, unless it is depicting a kid their age having sex it is not depicting a situation they can get into in reality either without some imagination boiling down to just the act of sexual contanct - and hence, the violent acts in games and tv and movies, regardless of it is knives or shot guns or swords or laser pistols, would have the same effect on kids who are already angry or upset or dislike someone badly or are just as mythologically influenced by sex in media.
It doesn't matter if it's laser pistols against zombies or axes against darkspawn - if a kid is influenced enough by media that seeing a naked breast will suddenly make boys and girls run out to have sex (exaggeration, but you get the meaning behind the hyperbole), then seeing an undead creature like Jason repeatedly stab a teenager with a knife would cause them to run to the kitchen and grab the steak knives to use on that bully at school.

You can't have it both ways - you can't say that the sight of a woman's breast on the screen will unduly affect a child and then say that the sight of one person inflicting harm on another person won't.  It's self-serving, selective reasoning.

[SheffSteel]

I didn't say it was rational, I said it was the rationale. (double-checks spelling... yup)

[MerinTB]

SheffSteel wrote...

I didn't say it was rational, I said it was the rationale. (double-checks spelling... yup)

Gotcha.

You were giving up the reasoning people have, not actually stating it as good reasoning.

:happy:

I agree, though - this seems to be the mindset.  I cannot tell you how many times I've been in line to get tickets to horror movies where there's some mom in line ahead of me with one or serveral kids (and I'm talking pre-teens) who, when buying tickets to a Halloween or Friday the 13th, will let their kids see the movie or not solely based on whether there is any nudity.  I always feel sorry for the poor ticket sellers who try feebly to tell the mom "No, ma'am, but the bad guy does gut several people and it is graphically shown." to no avail, same as I tried to tell parents how GTA might not be appropriate for their ten year olds and getting the parent yelling at me and asking for my manager.

[ZtriDer1379]

I would not mind having nudity in the game, but then again, I live in a free county who agrees that nudity is part of everyone and violence is more dangerous then sex.

Norway



It is to bad that country’s today thinks that violence is perfectly ok and nudity is a horror.

Having kids watching people decapitate each other and ripping their gut out with their hands only, that is all OK. Have kids watch people plunge a huge sword or a chainsaw up a mans ars so he screams like nothing one have heard of wail trashing around is all OK to let kids watch.



But showing breasts is a horror. One can’t have children see a nipple. That will hurt them for the rest of their life. Lets rather have them watch men ripping a women apart limb for limb with his bare hands. That is so much more better.

[SheffSteel]

Norway: public saunas.

USA: public shooting ranges.

[Hamsterminator]

Was anyone else pleasently surprised (and I don't mean turned on...) when the desire demon gave her boob a jiggle? I was like- woah, suggestive animation alert! I was impressed because it's a desire demon- clearly it's all about the attraction of weaker individuals through seduction and suggestion, and after the whole show-no-nipple-only-bra stuff we get in all RPG games it was a breath of fresh air I thought.

Personally I dont need to see a full on shag fest every time I go to camp, seeing some suggestive stripping and moody music is fine enough. It only bothers me that all women in the game have the same bodies... but thats a seperate issue

[Bibdy]

MerinTB wrote...

Actually, my daughter is nursing right now as she's 5 months old.  But thanks for the irrelevant comment.

If anything is an irrelevant comment, its that. I thought we were talking about your 8 year old here. Why suddenly bring up a totally different kid, the one that you DONT have playing the game to make a remark about this dicussion?

MerinTB wrote...

Why does there need to be horrid amounts of gore?  Brothels?  You quest to install a monarch, since most of the world has long ago done away with such dictatorships?  Why have ANY objectional material in a game that kids could play and give them bad ideas?

Forget that...why have NUDITY specifically?  I'll repeat the question, since you obviously missed it: You're okay with your kids seeing naked breasts, that's fine. But why is the LACK of naked breasts a concern?


It seems like people on the internet, invariably, always make something about them, specifically. They always make it personal. "If boobs aren't in my M-rated game, its because Bioware doesn't trust ME with boobs! This is an outrage!". How do you know that to be true? Why do people follow those kinds of trains of thought to their ultimate conclusion of complaining on the forums about it? Do people never, ever stop to think for a second that maybe something is the way it is for a reason OTHER than completely about them?

Modifié par Bibdy, 09 décembre 2009 - 07:11 .

[Jono_Jones]

i personally wouldnt mind seeing nudity in the game it would add to the realism that a game like this strives to achieve, and it would just round the game off.

[MerinTB]

Bibdy wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Actually, my daughter is nursing right now as she's 5 months old.  But thanks for the irrelevant comment.

If anything is an irrelevant comment, its that. I thought we were talking about your 8 year old here. Why suddenly bring up a totally different kid, the one that you DONT have playing the game to make a remark about this dicussion?

Uhm, I don't have an 8 year old kid. I have one daughter, and she's five.  Don't know where you got I have another kid...

I was responding to you suggesting I had kids too old to see breasts (?) and I found that very, very odd.

I think the problem here, Bibdy, is that you are confusing me with someone else.  So let's ease down tensions, ok?

I posted in this thread for the first time in response to DM Veil and said nothing there about my family.

Bidby wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Why does there need to be horrid amounts of gore?  Brothels?  You quest to install a monarch, since most of the world has long ago done away with such dictatorships?  Why have ANY objectional material in a game that kids could play and give them bad ideas?

Forget that...why have NUDITY specifically?  I'll repeat the question, since you obviously missed it: You're okay with your kids seeing naked breasts, that's fine. But why is the LACK of naked breasts a concern?

It isn't, per se, but some people (myself included) find all the suggestiveness and clothed sex scenes as having gone far enough that the "tastefully place hair" and "swimsuit during sex" really come across as silly and jarring.
I've said it repeatedly in other threads about this topic (there have been MANY) but a tasteful fade to black would be better than the "swimsuit during sex."

Why your FOCUS on nudity?  I listed other things that kids don't need to see, things that could be very objectionable in the real world, things that are NOT needed for a game to be fun nor for a story to be great.  People always respond why do you need nudity, and I turn it around and ask why do we need gore?  I personally dislike the buckets of blood the game doles out, if given a preference, and I'd be just as happy without any blood shown - but it doesn't bother me or take away from the game.  The lack of nudity doesn't bother me nor take away from the game for me, but the underware during sex actually, on a small level, does, as do the metal nipple pasties on the demon and the glue-to-the-breast hair on the nymph. *shrug*  That censorship is so blatantly obvious in a game that shows you ALL BUT that it bothers me a little.  Not enough to start a thread about it, not enough to ruin the game in the slightest bit, but enough for me to defend people whom bring it up.

You can be passionate about your view on the subject, but if you continue to say things as condescending as "since you obviously missed it" someone is probably going to tag your responses for a moderator.  Keep the tone civil, please.

Bidby wrote...
It seems like people on the internet, invariably, always make something about them, specifically. They always make it personal. "If boobs aren't in my M-rated game, its because Bioware doesn't trust ME with boobs! This is an outrage!". How do you know that to be true? Why do people follow those kinds of trains of thought to their ultimate conclusion of complaining on the forums about it? Do people never, ever stop to think for a second that maybe something is the way it is for a reason OTHER than completely about them?

Strawman.
Poison the well.

Watch your logical fallacies if you want an honest, constructive debate.

Modifié par MerinTB, 09 décembre 2009 - 07:35 .

[Bibdy]

Okay, apparently I've got you mixed up with another poster talking about letting their 8 year old play the game and being disappointed that the game doesn't have boobs to show them. Like they were insulted that the game didn't trust them enough with boobs to show them to their kid.

[MerinTB]

Bibdy wrote...

Okay, apparently I've got you mixed up with another poster talking about letting their 8 year old play the game and being disappointed that the game doesn't have boobs to show them. Like they were insulted that the game didn't trust them enough with boobs to show them to their kid.

No worries.  I thought the first response to me was a little off.


And to you bigger point I think you were making -

no, DAO doesn't need nudity.  It's a great game without.

And yet I think you could agree with me it would also be a great game without:
-the brothel
-the gore
-any other single element you could just pull out that isn't actually story or gameplay

[Ibian]

SheffSteel wrote...

At the end of the day, any given parent can feel pretty sure that their child is very very unlikely to ever be involved in any lethal act of violence, so there is really nothing to worry about. Sex, on the other hand, could happen to anyone... and that's why it is so scary.
And that is why it's considered acceptable for games to explicitly depict acts of horrific violence but not of sexual love.

You forget the forbidden fruit factor. When kids are told to stay away from something, they get curious. Censorship does more harm than good.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

People care more about a nipple showing than someone getting decapitated in a shower blood?



This is indeed a disturbing universe.

[Ibian]

Bibdy wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Why does there need to be horrid amounts of gore?  Brothels?  You quest to install a monarch, since most of the world has long ago done away with such dictatorships?  Why have ANY objectional material in a game that kids could play and give them bad ideas?

Forget that...why have NUDITY specifically?  I'll repeat the question, since you obviously missed it: You're okay with your kids seeing naked breasts, that's fine. But why is the LACK of naked breasts a concern?

It's a problem for the same reason that lack of blood would have been a problem. It simply does not make sense for this kind of game to have superglued underwear.

[SickFak]

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...

Tell me one benefit of having nudity in the game. There isn't any. You can use the age old excuse that it 'increases' your immersion. Which is probably the worst excuse ever. That's just like the excuse guys use in WoW when they make female characters, they do it because they don't want to 'stare at a guys ass the entire game." It's heinous and used by every pervert out there, just like yours.

"Stare at a guys ass the entire game"   I agree it's a pathetic excuse lol, but what's wrong with playing a female character? I played as a female city elf because I wanted to play as a female rogue and the origin story was good. When I'll play as a warrior on my second or third playthrough I'll make a male beardy dwarf or human because it seems fitting to me. Lets not offend people here.

oh and I think you 2 with that other dude have gone too far with your "debate".
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