284 réponses à ce sujet

[Ibian]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Ibian wrote...

 Conflict strengthens us. This has been my experience for my entire nearly 30 year life, as well as the experience of my father and grandfather who risked his life to save strangers during the war. They would not be the people they are, and i would not, if they had been meek and unthinking people.

There are so many things wrong with comparing raising a child to fighting in a war that it's not even worth getting into. 

There really isn't. It's a simple matter of scale. Overprotectiveness is just as harmful as not caring at all. I have yet to see anyone make a good case for why a few nipples would hurt their kids. It could hurt your idea of how pure your kids are, certainly, but you would most probably be wrong, both about the before and after seeing nipples situation.

Modifié par Ibian, 10 décembre 2009 - 01:01 .

[Aspar_Hruk]

I thought that by now everyone would already have understood that there is absolutely no any "artistic" decision in this matter and you can even notice this by the roughly patched scenes here and there and it's all about business. If they were to show pure nudity in the game, they would have to rate it adult in many countries and lose a lot of possible sales. That's it.

Nothing less, nothing more.

[Seraphael]

Aspar_Hruk wrote...

I thought that by now everyone would already have understood that there is absolutely no any "artistic" decision in this matter and you can even notice this by the roughly patched scenes here and there and it's all about business. If they were to show pure nudity in the game, they would have to rate it adult in many countries and lose a lot of possible sales. That's it.
Nothing less, nothing more.

There is obviously more to it than that. Why would a (female) nipple in a brief segment make the game even remotely as adult as extreme levels of violence and constant explosions of blood and gore? If you think about it; it's rather insane and a sad comment on some of todays societies.

[mkonrad6288]

Seraphael wrote...
There is obviously more to it than that. Why would a (female) nipple in a brief segment make the game even remotely as adult as extreme levels of violence and constant explosions of blood and gore? If you think about it; it's rather insane and a sad comment on some of todays societies.

Because it's a moral judgment.  You can't say that one is "better" than the other.  In a court of law, it is likely that the punishment for murder is much more severe than any number of sex crimes, but that does not permit us to conclude that either is "better" than the other.  Travel to another country, and you may find the morality placed onto games reversed, where violence is considered a greater offense.

So, we get a milquetoast game.  Such is life.  Pretending not to understand this for the sake of rhetorical argument is one thing, actually believing that you should get uncensored bewbs, quite another.

[Gecon]

Purpose of a roleplaying game is to suck me into a story and make me experience it.

Nudity is perfectly OK if the situation requests it. If it doesnt, then its out of place and annoying. I definitely dont buy computer games to be turned on and I dont think its a good idea to make a computer game to be turned on.

Unless, I dunno, its some cybersex game where you can have sex with your girlfriend if you two are thousands of kilometers away from each other.

[OneBadAssMother]

Bioware experimented with Mass Effect, a 5 second scene out of a 40 hr game with sidebewbie and a butt, was enough to make people flag it as a sex-game.



So I don't blame Bioware for this decision.

[MerinTB]

Seraphael wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

FADE TO BLACK is King. Nothing is really better. Better than underwear sex anyways >_>

Riiiiight. Let's really go low-tech to please the medieval mind-set of some intolerant people. <_<

Personally I think the artists of Mass Effect did a lot better work in this regard, creative editing made the love scene tasteful and artistic (though obviously there's no pleasing fox news zealots).

It's not "low-tech", it is a technique used to skip over material that is often called "best left to the imagination."

Personally, given the choice, I'd put an interactive sex scene in a game that had you build up so much of a relationship.  That'd be my choice.

Failing that, if a cut-scene is going to be shown of characters in the game having sex, I think it should be realistically depicted.  You can either use camera angles (a la Mass Effect and many tv shows and below R movies) and sheets and shadows, OR you can just allow what nudity is naturally captured by the "camera" to be shown and accept that, when having sex, people are most often mostly nude.

IF the concern (or desire of the creators) is not to depict nudity at all but they still want the story to strongly imply the characters sleep together, having them walk into a tent or bedroom or whatever and fade to black.

IMO, and the opinions of MANY who have posted in these various "what is the deal with the underware during the explicit sex scene", the latter 2 (I've not seen many actually say out loud they'd be fine with an interactive sex scene, but I'm guessing many would be) choices of "let the nudity show or use camera angles OR "just fade to black" is the consensus of what would have been better than the underware.

And the response of so many in opposition to these threads are "just get a mod that makes them nude" or "get a life perv" -
all which ignore that many, many of the people who dislike how the scene was handled -

WOULD.
HAVE.
PREFERRED.
A.
FADE.
TO.
BLACK.

How that makes us perverts I'll never understand.

[LadyRae9]

Just my two cents - I like the way the sex scenes were handled. I thought it was more romantic. And the underwear didn't bother me at all.

[Arbiter Libera]

I'm kinda surprised there's no mod already out there that skips the lurve scenes.

[Dauphin2]

Sadly the USA just seems to have a huge problem with the naked breast. (Think of the Janet Jackson media frenzy over a frickin' nipple). It almost makes me want to change citizenship to a more mature (and by mature I mean grown-up and not childish) country.

[Ibian]

She didn't even show her nipples. It's so freakin sad, even for a publicity stunt she had to cover them up.

[Aedan_Cousland]

I don't mind that Bioware decided not show nudity during the sex scenes. I don't really view that as necessary even in an adult-oriented game. However, I hope that if they also decide not to show any nudity during sex scenes in a sequel, that the cutscenes are done a little better. Having them roll around in the underwear was a bit odd. I think the scenes would have been much better if they appeared nude but the camera angles were such that the nekkid bits were out of view or obscured.

Before someone calls me a prude, let me just state that I don't mind nudity in games either. It is just isn't a requirement for me.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:10 .

[mkonrad6288]

Johohoho.Ehehehe wrote...

The only existing morality is that within an individual's thoughts and feelings. There is no common or group morality and any reference thereto is just propaganda of those who wish to back up their opinions by indefinable mass. Consequently, any genuine moral judgement can be done only on invidivual level, not by a group. Group rules are sometimes called the law but it doesn't reflect morality, it's merely a manifestation of violence and means of control.

As for your example with a murder and rape, I fully agree. One cannot derive what is "better" accroding to the punishement attributed to them by the law. That is to say, the law doesn't protect people but state's interests only. So from the state's law one can only derive what the state considers more endangering to its interests. Obviously, a murder is worse from that point of view for a dead tax payer is a worse consequence than a raped tax payer. Similarly, an intentional body harm can be, and often is, punished more benevolently than tax fraud.

Granted, this has pretty much nothing to do with Dragon Age, but the topic is what it is :innocent:

You may state that morality exists only within an individual, but I think that's open to interpretation and not terribly well borne out by some of the nonsensical censorship laws we already have on the books.  For what other reason would you posit that a few bewbs are removed from a game?  Certainly no child was harmed nor was anyone exploited in creating a few pixels.  Yet there are laws codified in numerous jurisdictions that prohibit this behavior.  On what grounds?  It's not usually clear, usually chalked up to the prurient interest or something.  The point is, someone's morality was codified into law and we're all to live by it.  Call it a means for control if you will, but how is it anything other than morality forced onto others?  We live with other people's morality day in and day out, and even if we don't agree, we can certainly be put in prison, fined or whatever.  I'd say that implies that morality can be shared by a group of people (even if it's done "poorly" and some opinions on the matter are discarded).

[Ibian]

If you think it's open to interpretation, that just proves there is no absolute morality. If there was, it wouldn't be open to interpretation.

[Godeshus]

MerinTB wrote...

Seraphael wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

FADE TO BLACK is King. Nothing is really better. Better than underwear sex anyways >_>

Riiiiight. Let's really go low-tech to please the medieval mind-set of some intolerant people. <_<

Personally I think the artists of Mass Effect did a lot better work in this regard, creative editing made the love scene tasteful and artistic (though obviously there's no pleasing fox news zealots).

It's not "low-tech", it is a technique used to skip over material that is often called "best left to the imagination."

Personally, given the choice, I'd put an interactive sex scene in a game that had you build up so much of a relationship.  That'd be my choice.

Failing that, if a cut-scene is going to be shown of characters in the game having sex, I think it should be realistically depicted.  You can either use camera angles (a la Mass Effect and many tv shows and below R movies) and sheets and shadows, OR you can just allow what nudity is naturally captured by the "camera" to be shown and accept that, when having sex, people are most often mostly nude.

IF the concern (or desire of the creators) is not to depict nudity at all but they still want the story to strongly imply the characters sleep together, having them walk into a tent or bedroom or whatever and fade to black.

IMO, and the opinions of MANY who have posted in these various "what is the deal with the underware during the explicit sex scene", the latter 2 (I've not seen many actually say out loud they'd be fine with an interactive sex scene, but I'm guessing many would be) choices of "let the nudity show or use camera angles OR "just fade to black" is the consensus of what would have been better than the underware.

And the response of so many in opposition to these threads are "just get a mod that makes them nude" or "get a life perv" -
all which ignore that many, many of the people who dislike how the scene was handled -

WOULD.
HAVE.
PREFERRED.
A.
FADE.
TO.
BLACK.

How that makes us perverts I'll never understand.

Your such a perv, Merin:whistle:. 


Damn kids with their fade-to-black and their makeout parties. *shakes fist

This is the part where you don't get offended, and picture Peter Griffin instead.

[MerinTB]

Godeshus wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Personally, given the choice, I'd put an interactive sex scene in a game that had you build up so much of a relationship.  That'd be my choice.

...

WOULD.
HAVE.
PREFERRED.

...
How that makes us perverts I'll never understand.

Your such a perv, Merin:whistle:. 


Damn kids with their fade-to-black and their makeout parties. *shakes fist

This is the part where you don't get offended, and picture Peter Griffin instead.

just waiting to see who quotes this where I misquote myself and calls me a perv, too

[Stanley Woo]

Let's try and keep the politics out of this, and keep it about Dragon Age, please.

[Whailor]

Actually what bothered me with the love scenes and such was that the game constantly "didn't know" when my char should take the armor off. There's this "hot scene" with my char and his female romance option and go figure, my char is "doing it" in full massive armor, helmet on and weapons strapped on his back. Next time when he kisses his romanced companion his helmet, with visor, still stays on and companion, pardon me the pun, keeps licking the helmet. Or smashes face and teeth first into my full helmet visor. And then again on next occasion my char does take the helmet off, or armor at times.. There's also the refresh issue when you go to inventory, change armor or weapons, exit it only to see that the char displayed still is wearing the old gear (save-reload and it's fixed but still). Kinda weird, these visual things, maybe also funny in some cases. Talk about protected love, hitting the sack with beloved in heavy full body metal armor together with a shield and weapons...

[XOGHunter246]

you really need to research on how rating system works really then you understand why it has mature or 18 rating.

[Seraphael]

mkonrad6288 wrote...

Seraphael wrote...
There is obviously more to it than that. Why would a (female) nipple in a brief segment make the game even remotely as adult as extreme levels of violence and constant explosions of blood and gore? If you think about it; it's rather insane and a sad comment on some of todays societies.

Because it's a moral judgment.  You can't say that one is "better" than the other.  In a court of law, it is likely that the punishment for murder is much more severe than any number of sex crimes, but that does not permit us to conclude that either is "better" than the other.

Oh please! There's a difference between purely moral legislation and legislation that can be supported morally but has other grounds as well. Both murder and most sexual crimes belong to the latter group. That a crime has a victim is an easy indication its punishment isn't purely based on morality alone. Laws exist against such crimes to maintain civilized society. That violence is punished more severely is a clear signal that the society at large regards it the more abhorrent of the two.

Your comparisons are also quite suspect. You use "sex crimes" as an allegory for a brief, semi-nude portrayal of consentual sex between adults, whereas the "murder" is constant, for hours on end, violent grotesqueries, most morally justifiable but a sufficient amount of immoral ones too. Moreover, finding sexuality offensive is purely religious morality, while being offended by inappropriate levels of violence is universal morality. Your attempt to portray both acts as "similar crimes against arbitrary morality" seems like such a blatant attempt to cover up the neo-puritan hypocracy.

Travel to another country, and you may find the morality placed onto games reversed, where violence is considered a greater offense.

Any country not warped by religious hypocracy certainly would hold the level of violence in this game as the by far the most offensive of the two. In fact, a tasteful nude sex scene in a mature rated game wouldn't be offensive at all if not for religious morality.

Modifié par Seraphael, 10 décembre 2009 - 07:31 .

[Razh2211]

If there were a complete nudity I imagine there would be a lot of people complaining that you can't adjust the size of your dong.

[SheffSteel]

Some societies do indeed feel that sex is just as bad as violence. In Uganada, for example, there may soon be a law providing the death penatly for gay people, if they get involved in a relationship with an under-18.

Of course other societies are more progressive than that, but hey, Stanley is basically right.