89 réponses à ce sujet

[Duranndal]

You know the drill.  Players throwing insults at "Elitists" for being jerks or for kicking.  "Elitists" angry that less skilled players are wasting their time by joining Gold matches.

This is basically the same age old debate that has been going on for thousands of years and is still going strong in politics today.  Its actually pretty interesting to see this phenomenon in the forum - especially when people don't realize what they're essentially arguing about;

Should those more skilled/fortunate be required/forced to be charitable?  Or should it be that person's prerogative?

I (as well as many of those on my friends list) do plenty of Gold matches where 1 or 2 people score no more than a few thousand points throughout the entire successful match.  Its more than obvious they are not ready for gold.  I don't have any particularly big problem with this.  But people have to realize that it can be considered very rude to show up and not carry their own weight.  On the flipside,  it can be considered to be very rude to kick someone without explanation, or be insulting of someone because of their skill level.

So whats the takeaway from this?

If you are less skilled, or are perceived as being less skilled, or are being consistently kicked:
#1. Stop being so offended and for godssake stop complaining on the forums.  Realize that other people's time is precious to them.  They are not obligated to carry you, or take a chance on your build/weapon combo that they are unfamiliar with.
#2. Play with friends.  (protip: they are less likely to kick you).  If you have no friends, make some.  If you can't make any friends, delete Mass Effect 3 and your BSN account.
#3. Practice, get better, get help - but not at the unwilling expense of others.

If you are a relatively skilled player:
#1. Don't be insulting/elitist.  It just makes the community worse, and you have helped noone, including yourself.
#2. Play with friends.  (protip: you are less likely to kick them)  If you have no friends, make some.  If you can't make any friends, delete Mass Effect 3 and your BSN account. 
#3. You are not required to carry less skilled players, but consider doing so every now and then to help them get better.  You might gain a friend who could very quickly become a pro player.

Modifié par Duranndal, 13 mai 2012 - 03:06 .

[Haloburner]

/popcorn.

[Liefglinde]

I won't completely carry a newer/less skilled player, but if you have a mic and are willing to take some constructive criticism, well you can grab your Avenger and jump in.

[maxtofunator]

Duranndal wrote...



#2. Play with friends.  (protip: you are less likely to kick them)  

you don't know how friends work very well, I always put a red x next to a friends name, always

[Drummernate]

maxtofunator wrote...

Duranndal wrote...



#2. Play with friends.  (protip: you are less likely to kick them)  

you don't know how friends work very well, I always put a red x next to a friends name, always

I always do that when someone else joins to put the blame on them... then the kick war ensues...

[GodlessPaladin]

Mmmm, definitive. :-\\

Also, people need to stop misusing the word elitist.
elitist.askdefine.com/

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 13 mai 2012 - 03:05 .

[maxtofunator]

Drummernate wrote...

maxtofunator wrote...

Duranndal wrote...



#2. Play with friends.  (protip: you are less likely to kick them)  

you don't know how friends work very well, I always put a red x next to a friends name, always

I always do that when someone else joins to put the blame on them... then the kick war ensues...

at least somebody else knows how this works. It is best when they are host

[Sidney]

I have no issue with booting a Level 9 adept with a Katana and Mantis on Gold - saw it today...but really anything below gold suck it up and play. I see a lot of people on silver booting level 12's because of equipment. Really?

[SeaJayX]

Holy **** bioware.

Add a new gun or something so people have something else to talk about.
Break the game or something, anything.

[GodlessPaladin]

The "elitists" are right and entirely justified, so long as they are actually capable of accurate risk assessments. People are not obligated to be ceaselessly charitable, and you are not entitled to their time.

In general I agree that successful players are entirely justified in kicking the rabble with subpar loadouts from Gold matches.  However I'm in a ranty mood, so I'll share a story with all of you.

So... I am an elite player.  I'm not saying this to brag or anything, it's just a fact that offers some perspective to what I am about to say, and pretty much anyone who has played with me or seen my videos can attest to the fact that I am an elite player.   If I am in your game you are almost certainly going to win and you are going to do so fairly quickly. 

Now, I don't play on Firebase White a lot and I don't play against Geth a lot.  In fact, I haven't done it in a very long
time, since I find the whole practice mind-numbing.  Anyways, just because I hadn't done it in such a very long time, I tried joining a quick match the other day with random random and got an FBW lobby... and figured I'd stay just to remind myself what it was like.  Within half a minute I got kicked for coming in with a very powerful build using a Claymore X.  I was confused by this.  It was the first time I got kicked from a game since... well, a really damn long time ago.  So I tried again.  Probably just a fluke, right?  Joined another room, got kicked again by different people.  Now I'm really curious.  I try four more times and am kicked every single time for bringing in an optimized build which I know is going to outperform what the other people are bringing in.  I switch to a Salarian Engineer (when there's already two in a room, so it's redundant) with a crappy Avenger and random mods just to see what happens and everything's hunky dory.  Disgusted, I quit before the ready countdown timer actually finishes.  What I learned here is that when I went to where less competent Gold players congregated, I was actually far more likely to be kicked despite using a good build, and that bad loadouts and class choices that don't really complement the team composition would be acceptable so long as you fit an arbitrary and misguided standard.

Apparently, these people not only are bad, lazy players who are playing on BY FAR the easiest settings... but they are terrible judges of what builds are actually good or not, yet think they are.  That is true arrogance.  Unjustified confidence in one's own abilities and superiority over others. 

My problem is not with what some people are talking about when they use the term "elitism."  I can completely understand people not wanting to engage with someone who is not on their level, and there's nothing wrong
with that.  They are not obliged to play with every random stranger nor is that random stranger entitled to playing with them.  However, I do have a very big problem with people who exemplify this phenomenon:  www.wepapers.com/Papers/70939/Unskilled_and_Unaware_of_It_-_How_Difficulties_in_Recognizing_One%27s_Own_Incompetence_Lead_to_Inflated_Self-Assessments

As such, I can understand why some people are frustrated with the state of the community atmosphere... especially since apparently a full third of random matches you search for will throw you in with the Firebase White crowd if you're not specifically avoiding it.  But that's not what I ever see people whining about.  They don't try to point out an error in analyzing the viability of characters or anything... they just complain that they got kicked, as if they are entitled to play with anyone they want and everyone they want to play with is obliged to spend their free time with them.

If anything, misguided "elitists" should be educated about how to do rational risk assessment in the context of the Mass Effect 3 game... not yelled at for entirely reasonable motivations.   That's an argument that is never, ever going to be won.

For example, Marshalleck rather decently laid out what you can probably infer about a person based on their N7 rank.

marshalleck wrote...
It's basic risk assessment. Guy shows up
to gold underlevel with basic weapons, there's a strong likelihood of
him being a new player without much experience. Maybe he's pro, but we
don't know that. All we can go by is how he presents himself. Which is
why it's important to not go into a gold lobby looking like a complete
noob with and underlevel character and underpowered equipment if you
really hate the idea that you might get kicked.

There are certain objectively reliable indicators of experience with the game.

N7
80 = this guy hasn't even played each class to 20, nor has he opened
enough packs to level his classes via character cards--he's almost
assuredly a new player. 

N7 120 = this guy has every class at 20,
but has never promoted. Probably a decent player who realizes promotion
does very little other than serve as a fallback respec card. 

Some more subjective indicators:

N7 300 = this guy has promoted quite a bit (each class once?) and spent a fair amount of time with the game. Probably decent.

N7
1500 = this guy spends a LOT of time on the game, BUT he may be a
habitual promoter who only farms new characters in bronze. Check his
loadout.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 13 mai 2012 - 03:44 .

[Shock n Awe]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The "elitists" are right and entirely justified, so long as they are actually capable of accurate risk assessments. People are not obligated to be ceaselessly charitable, and you are not entitled to their time.

*Snipped down to what it was*

I concur.  If anything, I feel "elitists" don't view themselves as elite.  They seem to be the players who don't believe they are skilled enough to do gold with any subpar team member, and require that all of their team be at least OK in order to pass gold.  At the least, they dislike wasting their time because someone unprepared for Gold and unwilling to learn joined their game - I have had plenty of people who ignore all advice given.

I can't help but feel the "anti-elitists" are either those demanding they be carried (edit: or don't realize that they're bad enough that they require carrying) or those good enough that their teammates' skill levels are irrelevant to the mission's success.

Modifié par Shock n Awe, 13 mai 2012 - 03:36 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Shock n Awe wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The "elitists" are right and entirely justified, so long as they are actually capable of accurate risk assessments. People are not obligated to be ceaselessly charitable, and you are not entitled to their time.

*Snipped down to what it was*

I concur.  If anything, I feel "elitists" don't view themselves as elite.  They seem to be the players who don't believe they are skilled enough to do gold with any subpar team member, and require that all of their team be at least OK in order to pass gold.  At the least, they dislike wasting their time because someone unprepared for Gold and unwilling to learn joined their game - I have had plenty of people who ignore all advice given.

I can't help but feel the "anti-elitists" are either those demanding they be carried or those good enough that their teammates' skill levels are irrelevant to the mission's success.

Genuinely skilled players are quite likely to kick too.  Even if they're good enough to carry the team, they might care about degree of success (such as clearing twice as fast), or simply find it more fun to play with a team that moves like a well-oiled machine and aren't whiny newbies.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 13 mai 2012 - 03:36 .

[Shock n Awe]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Shock n Awe wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The "elitists" are right and entirely justified, so long as they are actually capable of accurate risk assessments. People are not obligated to be ceaselessly charitable, and you are not entitled to their time.

*Snipped down to what it was*

I concur.  If anything, I feel "elitists" don't view themselves as elite.  They seem to be the players who don't believe they are skilled enough to do gold with any subpar team member, and require that all of their team be at least OK in order to pass gold.  At the least, they dislike wasting their time because someone unprepared for Gold and unwilling to learn joined their game - I have had plenty of people who ignore all advice given.

I can't help but feel the "anti-elitists" are either those demanding they be carried or those good enough that their teammates' skill levels are irrelevant to the mission's success.

Genuinely skilled players are quite likely to kick too.  Even if they're good enough to carry the team, they might care about degree of success (such as clearing twice as fast), or simply find it more fun to play with a team that moves like a well-oiled machine and aren't whiny newbies.

Good point.  If I am in the mood to put in the effort (and generally 1-2 medi-gels per wave in the later waves), I can one-man through the majority of the later waves (including 10 so long as it's an assassinate or disarm the objectives, but only when an infiltrator, but not when it's a hack), but I generally don't want to put forth that effort because - while fun - it's draining and I feel that I let the team down even if I die in some stupid way.

That said I usually don't kick, but that's mostly because the lobbies I join always look like one of these:
Ambiguous - Setups and N7s that might do well (I usually give these the benefit of the doubt in that I'll play, but I won't use any equipment (weapon/armor/ammo), medi-gel, rockets, etc. before wave 9).
Mostly good - Everything looks perfect, maybe one person looks average.
Everyone's bad - All other 3 players have way too low weapons/setups/characters/etc.  I just leave these lobbies.

In the case of the Ambiguous and Bad lobbies, if I'm not feeling up for the possible challenge I'll just leave.

Edit: At some times I actually feel soloing a round is easier (but more draining, to me) than having a few bad teammates.  When I have teammates I count on them to do their part - cover their area, back me up (AKA I don't kite the enemies like I would if I was last-man because it'll screw up spawns for my team), things that I'd do for them and generally expect in return.  Bad teammates generally don't do this.  This usually leads to me being flanked or having some other mishap happen where the bad teammate couldn't cover it, and taking things foregranted ("I have a teammate around that corner, no way I could walk into a cluster**** of enemies when he's standing there looking OK, and if there are he's right there and could revive me"), while if I'm solo I always expect that phantom to be around that corner and am much more cautious in general.

Modifié par Shock n Awe, 13 mai 2012 - 03:46 .

[xtorma]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The "elitists" are right and entirely justified, so long as they are actually capable of accurate risk assessments. People are not obligated to be ceaselessly charitable, and you are not entitled to their time.

In general I agree that successful players are entirely justified in kicking the rabble with subpar loadouts from Gold matches.  However I'm in a ranty mood, so I'll share a story with all of you.

So... I am an elite player.  I'm not saying this to brag or anything, it's just a fact that offers some perspective to what I am about to say, and pretty much anyone who has played with me or seen my videos can attest to the fact that I am an elite player.   If I am in your game you are almost certainly going to win and you are going to do so fairly quickly. 

Now, I don't play on Firebase White a lot and I don't play against Geth a lot.  In fact, I haven't done it in a very long
time, since I find the whole practice mind-numbing.  Anyways, just because I hadn't done it in such a very long time, I tried joining a quick match the other day with random random and got an FBW lobby... and figured I'd stay just to remind myself what it was like.  Within half a minute I got kicked for coming in with a very powerful build using a Claymore X.  I was confused by this.  It was the first time I got kicked from a game since... well, a really damn long time ago.  So I tried again.  Probably just a fluke, right?  Joined another room, got kicked again by different people.  Now I'm really curious.  I try four more times and am kicked every single time for bringing in an optimized build which I know is going to outperform what the other people are bringing in.  I switch to a Salarian Engineer (when there's already two in a room, so it's redundant) with a crappy Avenger and random mods just to see what happens and everything's hunky dory.  Disgusted, I quit before the ready countdown timer actually finishes.  What I learned here is that when I went to where less competent Gold players congregated, I was actually far more likely to be kicked despite using a good build, and bad loadouts would be acceptable so long as you fit an arbitrary and misguided standard.

Apparently, these people not only are bad, lazy players who are playing on BY FAR the easiest settings... but they are terrible judges of what builds are actually good or not, yet think they are.  That is true arrogance.  Unjustified confidence in one's own abilities and superiority over others. 

My problem is not with what some people are talking about when they use the term "elitism."  I can completely understand people not wanting to engage with someone who is not on their level, and there's nothing wrong
with that.  They are not obliged to play with every random stranger nor is that random stranger entitled to playing with them.  However, I do have a very big problem with people who exemplify this phenomenon:  www.wepapers.com/Papers/70939/Unskilled_and_Unaware_of_It_-_How_Difficulties_in_Recognizing_One%27s_Own_Incompetence_Lead_to_Inflated_Self-Assessments

As such, I can understand why some people are frustrated with the state of the community atmosphere... especially since apparently a full third of random matches you search for will throw you in with the Firebase White crowd if you're not specifically avoiding it.  But that's not what I ever see people whining about.  They don't try to point out an error in analyzing the viability of characters or anything... they just complain that they got kicked, as if they are entitled to play with anyone they want and everyone they want to play with is obliged to spend their free time with them.

If anything, misguided "elitists" should be educated about how to do rational risk assessment in the context of the Mass Effect 3 game... not yelled at for entirely reasonable motivations.   That's an argument that is never, ever going to be won.

For example, Marshalleck rather decently laid out what you can probably infer about a person based on their N7 rank.

marshalleck wrote...
It's basic risk assessment. Guy shows up
to gold underlevel with basic weapons, there's a strong likelihood of
him being a new player without much experience. Maybe he's pro, but we
don't know that. All we can go by is how he presents himself. Which is
why it's important to not go into a gold lobby looking like a complete
noob with and underlevel character and underpowered equipment if you
really hate the idea that you might get kicked.

There are certain objectively reliable indicators of experience with the game.

N7
80 = this guy hasn't even played each class to 20, nor has he opened
enough packs to level his classes via character cards--he's almost
assuredly a new player. 

N7 120 = this guy has every class at 20,
but has never promoted. Probably a decent player who realizes promotion
does very little other than serve as a fallback respec card. 

Some more subjective indicators:

N7 300 = this guy has promoted quite a bit (each class once?) and spent a fair amount of time with the game. Probably decent.

N7
1500 = this guy spends a LOT of time on the game, BUT he may be a
habitual promoter who only farms new characters in bronze. Check his
loadout.

Maybe they knew you from the boards

[GodlessPaladin]

Shock n Awe wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Shock n Awe wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The "elitists" are right and entirely justified, so long as they are actually capable of accurate risk assessments. People are not obligated to be ceaselessly charitable, and you are not entitled to their time.

*Snipped down to what it was*

I concur.  If anything, I feel "elitists" don't view themselves as elite.  They seem to be the players who don't believe they are skilled enough to do gold with any subpar team member, and require that all of their team be at least OK in order to pass gold.  At the least, they dislike wasting their time because someone unprepared for Gold and unwilling to learn joined their game - I have had plenty of people who ignore all advice given.

I can't help but feel the "anti-elitists" are either those demanding they be carried or those good enough that their teammates' skill levels are irrelevant to the mission's success.

Genuinely skilled players are quite likely to kick too.  Even if they're good enough to carry the team, they might care about degree of success (such as clearing twice as fast), or simply find it more fun to play with a team that moves like a well-oiled machine and aren't whiny newbies.

Good point.  If I am in the mood to put in the effort (and generally 1-2 medi-gels per wave in the later waves), I can one-man through the majority of the later waves (including 10 so long as it's an assassinate or disarm the objectives, but only when an infiltrator, but not when it's a hack), but I generally don't want to put forth that effort because - while fun - it's draining and I feel that I let the team down even if I die in some stupid way.

That said I usually don't kick, but that's mostly because the lobbies I join always look like one of these:
Ambiguous - Setups and N7s that might do well (I usually give these the benefit of the doubt in that I'll play, but I won't use any equipment (weapon/armor/ammo), medi-gel, rockets, etc. before wave 9).
Mostly good - Everything looks perfect, maybe one person looks average.
Everyone's bad - All other 3 players have way too low weapons/setups/characters/etc.  I just leave these lobbies.

In the case of the Ambiguous and Bad lobbies, if I'm not feeling up for the possible challenge I'll just leave.

Edit: At some times I actually feel soloing a round is easier (but more draining, to me) than having a few bad teammates.  When I have teammates I count on them to do their part - cover their area, back me up (AKA I don't kite the enemies like I would if I was last-man because it'll screw up spawns for my team), things that I'd do for them and generally expect in return.  Bad teammates generally don't do this.  This usually leads to me being flanked or having some other mishap happen where the bad teammate couldn't cover it, and taking things foregranted ("I have a teammate around that corner, no way I could walk into a cluster**** of enemies when he's standing there looking OK, and if there are he's right there and could revive me"), while if I'm solo I always expect that phantom to be around that corner and am much more cautious in general.

I have definitely encountered cases where playing with bad teammates was more difficult than soloing.  For example, if you encounter a hacking objective, and you have 3 teammates who continuously die (and thus fail to fill up the cap bar, but still serve to keep the enemies clustered in the hacking circle until they finally all bleed out), then things are far more difficult than if you were just all alone, particularly since in a solo game the hack bar fills up faster.

And, like you pointed out, misplacing trust in teammates (expecting them to fill a role in which they will fail) can be deadly.  For example, if you see three people are covering a flank you might stop paying attention to it in order to better cover other areas of the field.  If you were soloing, you would act differently.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 13 mai 2012 - 03:55 .

[OniGanon]

I am not good enough to succeed in Gold without competent teammates to help me.

I can pull my own weight, but I cannot beat Gold without 2-3 people who can do the same.

That is not "elitism."

That is me not wanting my consumables and 10-20 minutes of my time wasted by people who either want their ass carried or are vastly overestimating their abiltities.

If you cannot even comfortably beat Silver, please stay out of public Gold lobbies until you can. You want to be carried because of the event? Form a private game with people willing to carry you. Don't join a public, random Gold lobby and expect 3 other people to be okay with you being unwilling or unable to hold your own.

Modifié par OniGanon, 13 mai 2012 - 03:55 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Hah, OniGanon's sig reminds me of another silly way to get kicked... playing a Quarian Infiltrator with a really bad team, carrying their sorry asses, and then getting kicked for having a low score because of the Sabotage glitch, because the people are too damn stupid to recognize that you were killing the majority of enemies (and that they were getting credit for your sabotage kills if they did so much as tickle the enemy slightly with a GPSMG shot or something).

It's never actually happened to me, but I've heard of it happening to other people.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 13 mai 2012 - 04:03 .

[shpaiderman]

*sits back and enjoys the cafight

srsly though, it is waaaay too situational of a problem to workout a working algorithm. Best to trust your guts on kicking.

[Soggy-Snake-]

I think a lot of the tension occurs between Silver and Gold. I'll try and group this based off my own experiences.

Gold

1. Elite players - the type of people who can solo Gold, know weapons, builds and mechanics inside out, can play virtually every class extremely well, finish most Gold matches in 20minutes etc. Some members of the forum are here.

2. Regular Gold players - The type of people who are skilled at 4 or 5 classes/characters and regularly beat Gold. Can carry a team of randoms if need be but don't have a complete knowledge of every build and setup for the classes. Usually finish 3rd with 75k-100k when playing with Elite players who score 140k+ or finish 1st or 2nd scoring over 100k when playing with randoms. Often plays games where all 4 players score 70-90k. I consider myself one of these along with many other forum members.

[There's a zone here of people who need good team mates to win and can't quite carry randoms to victory but are decent players none the less.]

3. Farmers and low tier Gold players - these people can farm WGG and have beaten max of 2 other Gold matches ever. Believe that you need perfect setups (characters, equipment) to stand a chance on WGG. Will kick anyone who doesn't meet their standards. Have a belief that they are elite level players and cause the most tension for....

~~ Friction Zone ~~

Top level Silver players - these people have played a lot of Bronze and Silver and are experienced enough to start playing Gold. Have characters between lvl15-20 and a few rare weapons. Know how to work as a team, use missiles and not die. However they run into [Gold 3] players first and therefore suffer the kicking/abuse that comes from low tier Gold players. Often they do not persist with Gold and never meet the [Gold 2] players who are willing to play with them. Responsible for the complaints regarding weekend events on Gold.

As a result these people go away with assumptions about elitists. People who are ready for Gold are scared off through perceived elitism which gives a bad rap to all Gold players. Then the belief arises in which it seems as if you need to have the ultimate setup to even get into a Gold lobby and that its not worth trying in the future. This leads to the topics you get warning Bronze/Silver players about not trying Gold.

Then there are the Bronze players who head up to Gold with lvl 8 characters and common weapons at IV. These are the people who annoy Gold 1 and 2 who can't always be bothered carrying such a person through a Gold match (but infuriate Gold 3 players).

Basically if top Silver players could bypass [Gold 3] players and play with [Gold 2] players then the system would work much better.

Modifié par Soggy-Snake-, 13 mai 2012 - 04:17 .

[darkelf02]

Friends list makes this a non issue.

[GodlessPaladin]

Soggy-Snake- wrote...

I think a lot of the tension occurs between Silver and Gold. I'll try and group this based off my own experiences.

Gold

1. Elite players - the type of people who can solo Gold, know weapons, builds and mechanics inside out, can play virtually every class extremely well, finish most Gold matches in 20minutes etc. Some members of the forum are here.

2. Regular Gold players - The type of people who are skilled at 4 or 5 classes/characters and regularly beat Gold. Can carry a team of randoms if need be but don't have a complete knowledge of every build and setup for the classes. Usually finish 3rd with 75k-100k when playing with Elite players who score 140k+ or finish 1st or 2nd scoring over 100k when playing with randoms. Often plays games where all 4 players score 70-90k. I consider myself one of these along with many other forum members.

[There's a zone here of people who need good team mates to win and can't quite carry randoms to victory but are decent players none the less.]

3. Farmers and low tier Gold players - these people can farm WGG and have beaten max of 2 other Gold matches ever. Believe that you need perfect setups (characters, equipment) to stand a chance on WGG. Will kick anyone who doesn't meet their standards. Have a belief that they are elite level players and cause the most tension for....

~~ Friction Zone ~~

Top level Silver players - these people have played a lot of Bronze and Silver and are experienced enough to start playing Gold. Have characters between lvl15-20 and a few rare weapons. Know how to work as a team, use missiles and not die. However they run into [Gold 3] players first and therefore suffer the kicking/abuse that comes from low tier Gold players. Often they do not persist with Gold and never meet the [Gold 2] players who are willing to play with them. Responsible for the complaints regarding weekend events on Gold.

As a result these people go away with assumptions about elitists. People who are ready for Gold are scared off through perceived elitism which gives a bad rap to all Gold players. Then the belief arises in which it seems as if you need to have the ultimate setup to even get into a Gold lobby and that its not worth trying in the future. This leads to the topics you get warning Bronze/Silver players about not trying Gold.

Then there are the Bronze players who head up to Gold with lvl 8 characters and common weapons at IV. These are the people who annoy Gold 1 and 2 who can't always be bothered carrying such a person through a Gold match (but infuriate Gold 3 players).

Basically if top Silver players could bypass [Gold 3] players and play with [Gold 2] players then the system would work much better.

And of course this would largely be solved if they fixed Firebase White and gave Geth better anti-grab tools.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 13 mai 2012 - 04:27 .

[D4rk50ul808]

Just use your mic. If you don't have one go buy one. There is nothing worse than having an elite squad only to have a random in the fourth slot basically making the game ten times more time consuming.

If you are new or less skilled and wander into a lobby of people who obviously know what they are doing, try sticking to the strategy they lay out and learn a thing or two, not tell them what they should be doing differently. I can't even begin to count the number of times I got told I was a noob for not doing Gold the "elite" way on FBWGG with a Salarian Engineer, and that playing random was stupid.

Keep in mind even elite players like to goof off and be wreckless, it makes the game a little more fun than the automatic win. If you see this happening rest assured that when the game is on the line, they will pull it together and carry everyone to the full extract.

[Shock n Awe]

Sounds about right, Soggy Snake. I'm square in the [Gold 2] group. I've never played with any other members of the forums (to my knowledge), but I'm still rarely in games where all 4 players score in roughly the same bracket. Usually I'll be the top scorer or near-top, and some (awesome) times I'll get in PUGs with people as good/slightly better than me, and then us 2 will dominate the scoreboards. I definitely give my Black Widow full credit where it's due as to why I can be good (in this case, it is indeed the weapon and not the player).

That said, I can play like a total of 3-4 classes well, and haven't tried any of the others on gold because I'm afraid I'll drag the team down.

Edit: I'm also pretty certain different maps/enemies have different point caps.  On Cerberus Giant it'll usually go:
Player 1- 70-110k score
Player 2 - 50-70k score
Players 3 and 4 - 35-55k score

But I played a Cerberus/Condor earlier that looked like:
Player 1 - 145k score
Player 2 - 90k score
Players 3 and 4 - About 55-65k score each.

Obviously that's a pretty large difference in the totals.

Modifié par Shock n Awe, 13 mai 2012 - 04:45 .

[Duranndal]

A lot of good discussion so far. Bravo.

I would also concur that on certain maps with certain classes, having really bad teammates is truly worse than soloing Gold. When you are soloing, everything is relatively predictable. Even if you quickly adjust to not relying on your teammates, many of your planned routes could be blocked or complicated by teammates being in bad positions.

Also, as a personal experience, I have had a surprisingly positive time on the PC regarding kicks. I've only ever been kicked once in the couple thousand or so matches I have played. And I suspect it might have just been to make room for a friend (I wouldn't know - I never even saw the lobby screen load). I've even entered lobbies with extremely exotic character/weapon builds quite often and still never got kicked. Part of it might be attributed to my higher than average N7 level. But even then - people have refrained from kicking me even when I enter a random/reaper/gold lobby with a level 5 Krogan Vanguard with a sniper rifle (don't judge me). I then proceeded to mop up the scoreboard, of course. /ShamelessBrag. They were awesome team players though, so props.

Anyways - +1 to the PC community. I, myself, however, am guilty of kicking on more than a few occasions. It was almost always abundantly clear that they were in over their heads though, and probably wouldn't have even had fun dying over and over. Either that or they were idle.

[GodlessPaladin]

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

Just use your mic. If you don't have one go buy one. There is nothing worse than having an elite squad only to have a random in the fourth slot basically making the game ten times more time consuming.

This is exactly why not having a mic will sometimes result in a kick from our matches.  If someone cannot be expected to follow a plan and wander off and block the wrong spawns and such, it makes things much more inefficient for a truly competent team than if there was an empty spot there.  Being able to control where enemies spawn can make runs a lot faster.

If you are new or less skilled and wander into a lobby of people who
obviously know what they are doing, try sticking to the strategy they
lay out and learn a thing or two, not tell them what they should be
doing differently. I can't even begin to count the number of times I
got told I was a noob for not doing Gold the "elite" way on FBWGG with a
Salarian Engineer, and that playing random was stupid.

Yeah, I've actually gotten that a few times.  There's nothing quite like being in a lobby then seeing someone with a humdrum loadout come in, put on the most condescending tone imaginable, and say "why would you actually play against Reapers on purpose?  Anyone smart would play on Firebase White."  And then he'll make offhand comments about why your build that will soon be getting quadruple his score is "obviously wrong."  The slew of excuses he makes when you get quadruple his score are particularly depressing. 

In a recent case, this was with a guy calling me out for using a Drell Adept with a Talon on Reapers Glacier... who then still insisted that I was bad and didn't understand the game or which character and weapons I should use when I had more score than the whole team combined.  It's mind-boggling to me how capable these people are of lying to themselves and flat out ignoring evidence in order to protect their overblown and twisted egos.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 13 mai 2012 - 05:16 .