60 réponses à ce sujet

[ubermensch007]

Why do I say this? Where do I begin. First, I just want to put it out there that this is not a "troll" thread. I'm here to discuss my views and observations of Miranda's behavior and treatment of Shepard in ME3.

Not everyone is all that comfortable with public displays of affection.So I won't hold that against her.But the contrast betwixt how Jack greets her boyfriend whom she hasn't seen in six months and how
Miranda does. Is just... Wow.

Okay, Jack is full of energy, excitement, passion and enthusiasm --when Shepard walks back into her life.I love how Jack literally is about to make a b-line to Shepard's arms when she first sees him and the hungry look she has in her eyes. She forgets everything else in the world in that one moment; but is brought back to
her senses when she sees an Atlas Mech out of the corner of her eyes.The theme song for their reunion at Grissom Academy could be that "My Boyfriends back" song from ages ago.

Miranda's demeanor towards Shep on the other-hand is very reserved, subdued and almost stand-offish. Anyone else notice how in every scene with Shep & Miri in ME3. She puts a great amount of physical distance between them. I don't know about you, but I sort of felt like Miranda was very awkward around Shep and didn't seem like she knew what to say or what was expected of her.At first I passed it off to her being more Victorian Era like when it comes to romance. But then I remembered her correspondence with Oriana in LOTSB.

Ori ask her big sis for advise about boys, and instead of drawing from her own life experience -- Miri reads dating advise to her sis from a magazine like some Fembot. And Ori, gets understandably upset with Miri for doing this. After seeing what kind of girlfriend Ms. Lawson is in ME3. I believe BioWare was giving us a heads up with the LOTSB Miri/Ori email.

So what is my gripe? What is my beef? To speak plain, I'll put it like this: When I was with Tali in ME3, I felt as though Shep & Tali were an item. One of my favorite scenes betwixt them is post Sanctuary -- when Tali talks about how she is having a drink with her boyfriend.That acknowledgement of what Shepard is to her was very sweet and endearing.

When I was with Jack in a long distance relationship in ME3. I (surprisingly) felt all the more that Shep & Jack are involved. I love how Jack & Shep talk to one another.I always have.And the way they are in 2186 is so believable and realistic.She has her career and he has his and they both support one another.They have alot of: "So how
was your day honey?"  Conversations.Its brilliant. When I was talking to Jack at Purgatory. I wanted to take off her boots and massage her feet; while she was telling me about all the good work their doing and how she didn't appreciate having to still focus on work even when she is on Shore Leave.

But with Miranda... I was like: "Err -- are we even dating?" The chief problem that I have with Ms. Lawson, is that I felt as though she just flat out takes Commander Shepard for granted. And no one treats my Shepard like that! Not only does she take Shep for granted she tries to exploit their relationship by asking him for access to Alliance
Resources without so much as giving him a reason why.All she says is, "You have to trust me."

My brother has a saying: I trust people to be people.Shep knows from first-hand experience that Miranda would do anything for her sister.And in ME3 she makes it perfectly clear that Oriana comes first in her
life.Looking out for her sister is more important than standing by her man or helping find a way to defeat the Reapers.You see its not just that Miranda is a crappy girlfriend.What I am more dissapointed by  is
the fact that like (Shep says about TIM) the Illusive Man she has forgotten everything that she once stood for.

When we first see Miranda in ME2 I(In the Prologue) She comes across as strong, powerful and focused on saving humanity and defeating the Reapers. When we meet her in ME3, she doesn't even offer to aid
Commander Shepard in his endeavors. And for some reason Shepard doesn't even ask her too.Miranda is now the 'New" Liara in ME3. She's totally obsessed with finding her sister at the expense of everything else in
her life.Like how Dr.T'soni was about the Shadow Broker in ME2.

To some, Miranda's devotion to her sister may be seen as admirable.I just see Miranda as a big hypocrite. When I think of how "The Mission Comes First" she was during the suicide mission. And on another point
Oriana is her kryptonite.Miranda has such potential.But her attachment to her sister holds her back.For me it is no conciliation post-Sanctuary to read about how Ms.Lawson is now helping the Alliance fight Cerberus.
When you consider the fact that Garrus leaves his family back on Palaven to help Shepard.(Even though Shepard doesn't even ask him too) But Miranda is incapable of functioning until Ori is safe. That is f*cking pathetic!

I have more to say -- and I'm very interested as well in what you all think of the Miranda romance and characterization in Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par ubermensch007, 13 mai 2012 - 03:11 .

[CrutchCricket]

The problem lies in presentation. Break up with her in ME3 and see how she takes it. Let her die at Sanctuary and see how it plays out. Miranda does love Shepard. But for reasons unknown (i.e. not giving a ****) the writers didn't pencil this in unless something terrible happens. We're hoping they can fix this via DLC.
Don't think this needed its own thread though...

[KevTheGamer]

Turians are bred to protect everyone else first and family second. Humans are brought up to believe family before everything else its a cultural difference. I think Miranda just didn't know how to approach Shepard and she says that on citadel when she asks where they stood. I think Miranda was trying to cover her tracks because Cerberus spies were every where and she did not know exactly where to find them. She was being secretive to protect herself Ori and Shepard. I like Miranda. Now I wish I could have taken her along on ME 3 but I think she Thane and Jack had the best reasons for not joining the squad in ME 3.

[o Ventus]

I think you're looking into it a little too much.

Granted, her romance arc in ME3 does have its share of stupid (All of them do, it's undeniable), but it felt (to me) more organic and realistic than say, Jack's or Ashley's (Especially Ashley's). Miranda has never been privy to public displays of affection, so it was a bit of a surprise when she kissed Shepard on the cheek after the romance affirmation on the Citadel. That shouldn't really come as a big surprise. She's just never been too emotional while around other people (Unless those people are people she is close too, like Oriana and Shepard). I don't know why you included the physical space between the two of them as a negative point though. They don't need to be sitting right next to each other for the entirety of their conversations.

She emphasizes finding Oriana for a number of reasons. 1. She knows that Shepard has his hands full with the Reapers, and doesn't want to burden him with ANOTHER potentially life threatening mission, especially since she (at that point) had no idea where Oriana even was. Her not joining onto the Normandy was incredibly retarded. The only reason she didn't come was because she could have died in ME2 (Despite being the hardest to kill off, but I'll let that little detail slide). There's Traynor, who could find a space-fly halfway across the galaxy, and Liara, who's the Shadow Broker. Miranda could just have Liara spare some Broker troops to find Oriana while Miranda and Shepard went on their business.

Her reasons for prioritizing Oriana also make sense. During any extinction event, it makes sense that she would want to protect her family (What part she has of it anyway). I can chalk the over-saturation of Oriana to Miranda's romance being optional. Everyone simply isn't going to do it, so of course they aren't going to flood players who didn't pick her with romantic dialogue.

You say you enjoyed the moment between a drunken Tali after Sanctuary, and Jack in Purgatory. The Miranda equivalent to those moments would be during the conversation in the hotel room, during the bit about the control chip, and after defeating Henry Lawson at Sanctuary.

Bringing up Garrus and his family is a moot point, since Garrus and Miranda re totally different characters with different mindsets. He makes it very clear that he is deeply worried about his family, as well, so it isn't like he's nonchalantly dicking around on the Normandy while Palaven burns.

One thing that pisses me off more than anything about Miranda in ME3 though is her uter lack of Cerberus interaction/dialogue. She mentions them all of once, during her first conversation on the Citadel. After that, it's all Oriana up until Sanctuary. The letter about Miranda on Liara's terminal does a little bit to mitigate her fixation, but it's so painfully obvious that it's meager damage control. Also, the goodbye on Earth was good enough, for what we were dealt, though it's safe to say I would have preferred a face to face meeting, with an embrace and a last kiss.

[o Ventus]

CrutchCricket wrote...

The problem lies in presentation. Break up with her in ME3 and see how she takes it. Let her die at Sanctuary and see how it plays out. Miranda does love Shepard. But for reasons unknown (i.e. not giving a ****) the writers didn't pencil this in unless something terrible happens. We're hoping they can fix this via DLC.
Don't think this needed its own thread though...

Oh, and this.

[Skullheart]

Actually, the Miranda in ME3 is an impostor. She doesn't remember her 20 years inside Cerberus, she is a stupid girl who didn't change her surname after she escaped from her father, she doesn't believe in human advancement, she isn't pragmatic, she doesn't have any comments about Cerberus new directions, she is incompetent to show her feeling to her lover, etc.

I can only blame her writer in ME3, after all he was a noob writer, first time he wrote something and mutilated the character in the progress.

Modifié par Skullheart, 13 mai 2012 - 03:57 .

[o Ventus]

Skullheart wrote...

Actually, the Miranda in ME3 is an impostor. She doesn't remember her 20 years inside Cerberus, she isn't a stupid girl who didn't change her surname after she escaped from her father, she doesn't believe in human advancement, she isn't pragmatic, she doesn't have any comments about Cerberus new directions, etc.

I can only blame her writer in ME3, after all he was a noob writer, first time he wrote something and mutilated the character in the progress.

Probably a bit of an overreaction. but you make a valid point.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

CrutchCricket wrote...

The problem lies in presentation. Break up with her in ME3 and see how she takes it. Let her die at Sanctuary and see how it plays out. Miranda does love Shepard. But for reasons unknown (i.e. not giving a ****) the writers didn't pencil this in unless something terrible happens. We're hoping they can fix this via DLC.
Don't think this needed its own thread though...

Yeah, basically, Miranda's barely keeping it together when she meets Shep the first time. She's on the run from everything and everyone, but she knows Shep still expects her to be the same cool-headed person. Sure, maybe it could use a bit more exposition, but Miranda's romance subplot is written pretty faithfully to her character.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 13 mai 2012 - 04:02 .

[CrutchCricket]

Skullheart wrote...

Actually, the Miranda in ME3 is an impostor.

Is this your new catchphrase or something? Christ give it a rest already.

[MisterJB]

Take Shepard for granted? Miranda flat out asks him if he is still interested in a relationship with her.

[Sigyn2011]

And don't forget, she could have had probably had her share of men since she and Shep were separated for 6 months. I agree. Her romance could use some...finessing. But they were scrounging for time, too. I'm torn whether I agree with her lack of PDA the first time you meet with her on the Citadel. On the one hand, she's never worn her heart on her sleeve. But on the other, well...I did kind of want something more than a kiss on the cheek.

[o Ventus]

Sigyn2011 wrote...

And don't forget, she could have had probably had her share of men since she and Shep were separated for 6 months.

Why do you say this?

It would be kind of counter productive to go and cheat on your significant other, right after you reveal that you could have broken in and seen them.

[hot_heart]

o Ventus wrote...
It would be kind of counter productive to go and cheat on your significant other, right after you reveal that you could have broken in and seen them.

That's his point. That she remained faithful and seemed the only LI considering taking a huge risk just to see him.

On the original topic, I can see how it would leave some people dissatisfied but a lot of the romances seem to have their own flavour. If you like Miranda, then you probably can understand part of how she acts (when combined with the 'can't be a squad member because of resources' development issue).

Besides, not every single detail of everything needs spelling out in dialogue. That's just bad writing.

Oh, and I'd not seen Jack's romance content but does she make any comment about going from Purgatory (the mega-prison) to Purgatory (the bar)?

Modifié par hot_heart, 13 mai 2012 - 12:31 .

[BatmanPWNS]

Miranda get way more screen time than Jacob, Jack or Thane. She even get a romance scene, which was crap, but at least they got one. Compare to those characters, Miri got off pretty good.

Modifié par BatmanPWNS, 13 mai 2012 - 12:54 .

[Stalker]

She was actually a great romance, just with too less content...

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 13 mai 2012 - 04:53 .

[Lucky Thirteen]

I think Miranda is just being Miranda. She's always going to try to go about it the professional way, always going to try to keep her emotions in check. That is why she is introduced to us an ice queen. Especially since an all out war is going on, she attempts to view it in a rational sense that it is a really bad time for soldiers to be hooking up. It's been six months since Shepard and Miranda have spoken. Things can change and Miranda is a realist. Shepard could have meet any number of women in his time incarcerated, he may have even rekindled an old flame.

She's not like the openly sensitive women in the rest of the game, her sensitivity is almost always kept tucked away for private moments. She is strong, she is powerful, she is focused, and that is because she thinks rationally and not emotionally. She is looking for her sister and she doesn't want to distract Shepard from his fight against the Reapers. She's taking on the task alone.

I know, compared to most of the other LI for male Shepard that is completely bizarre for a woman to think independently and not kiss Shepard's penis every chance she gets.

I do think there should have been more in the romantic sense, during the private moments she and Shepard have. There shouldn't have been affection only shown during her death scene, there should have been more in the privacy of the apartment. There should have been a picture on the Shepard's desk of Miranda and talk of sharing a life together when the war is done.

However, I strongly disagree that she should have been all over Shepard the first time she saw him. That would been out of character.

She has spent 18 years protecting her sister, for her to just drop that at Shepard's request is horrible. I can't even imagine Thane putting Shepard before his son, that idea pisses me off to no end when certain Thanemancers bring Kolyat up like he's some kind of annoying third wheel in the way of true romance and mutant babbies. They seem to think his son shouldn't exist anymore cause he comes from another woman. To find that such an idea exist with the Mirandamancers just boggles my mind and makes me wonder how people treat the real life families of their boyfriends or girlfriends. I know I've never had an attitude of, forget your family, I'm all that matters to you now.

Now, Bioware could have written it that Miranda joins Shepard and continues to look for her sister. She would have the protection of the Normandy from her father and Cerberus. The only problem I see is that finding her sister requires a lot of work, it's an active thing, not a sudden thing that will be dropped in her lap like in ME2. She would need to constantly take off as she investigates various locations. However, the Shadow Broker forced her way onto the Normandy. I say the Shadow Broker should be doing more for Shepard than batting her eyes and making time capsules. Hey Miranda, the all powerful Shadow Broker is on my ship with plenty of free time to derp around. We can ask her to send her information brokers out to find what happened to your sister

Problem would have been solved, but since Bioware didn't think that way, we're stuck with what we have currently.

She left the safety of Cerberus and is now on the run with the constant threat to herself and her sister of being brutally killed from Ceberus and their father. All because of Shepard.

Is that not enough sacrifice for you? She can't give you a first born, she's infertile.

Does she really have to go as far as to change everything that she is to make you happy? You do realize that to change everything that she is would take away everything you loved about her.

[hot_heart]

Well said.

[Babi_Siha]

I don't see Miranda as being all that cold. In their first meeting, she smiled at Shepard and said she was glad to see him. Shepard, to me, was the one acting all indifferent like she meant nothing to him, didn't even smile when he saw her for the first time after 6 months. He never says "I missed you" or showed to be remotely worried about her. Unless she dies Shepard never acknowledges he cares about her at all and he isn't the one to say "I love you" first...

Miranda was poorly written in ME3, that's a fact, but as far as relationship goes, Shepard is the crappy boyfriend, not the other way around.

[shepskisaac]

Skullheart wrote...

Actually, the Miranda in ME3 is an impostor. She doesn't remember her 20 years inside Cerberus, she is a stupid girl who didn't change her surname after she escaped from her father, she doesn't believe in human advancement, she isn't pragmatic, she doesn't have any comments about Cerberus new directions, she is incompetent to show her feeling to her lover, etc.

I can only blame her writer in ME3, after all he was a noob writer, first time he wrote something and mutilated the character in the progress.

It wasn't Miranda's writer decision to have her in the role she was in. Entire team was making those decision and well, they decided "Tali & Garrus again!".

[MisterJB]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...
To find that such an idea exist with the Mirandamancers just boggles my mind and makes me wonder how people treat the real life families of their boyfriends or girlfriends. I know I've never had an attitude of, forget your family, I'm all that matters to you now.

Please allow me to make it clear that the op does, in no way, speak for us.
Any ressentment against Oriana that might exist nowadays derivates solely from the fact that rescuing her eclipses much of what Miranda used to be while all of her other accomplishments; shutting down Sanctuary and revealing TIM's location; feel like side-effects, not out possessiveness or jealousy.
Much like Thane feels defined by his disease in ME3, we anguish over the fact Miranda seems to be defined by Oriana.

Babi_Siha wrote...
He never says "I missed you" or showed to be remotely worried about her. Unless she dies Shepard never acknowledges he cares about her at all and he isn't the one to say "I love you" first...

What? I can think of, at least, three different occasions where Shepard asked for Miranda to be careful or just flat out said he was worried.
And what is "I'll always want you in my life" if not "I love you."? I almost expected him to fall on his knees right there.

[Dessalines]

1)If any of you have been part of RL homecoming after ships been deployed for awhile, you realize not everyone does jump into the "sailor's arms." when they see them again.
2) Miranda is the only one that starts crying when you break it off with her.
3)The person you love is trying to save the entire galaxy is this really a good time to start complaining about how you feel about the organization you used to be apart of is adding to their headaches. Saving her sister might be something you would be willing to do, but you are trying to save the galaxy.

[Melra]

Dessalines wrote...

1)If any of you have been part of RL homecoming after ships been deployed for awhile, you realize not everyone does jump into the "sailor's arms." when they see them again.
2) Miranda is the only one that starts crying when you break it off with her.
3)The person you love is trying to save the entire galaxy is this really a good time to start complaining about how you feel about the organization you used to be apart of is adding to their headaches. Saving her sister might be something you would be willing to do, but you are trying to save the galaxy.

This.

Just ain't your type of romance, try Liara/Tali if you want to be worshipped in weird manner.

[Babi_Siha]

MisterJB wrote...

What? I can think of, at least, three different occasions where Shepard asked for Miranda to be careful or just flat out said he was worried.
And what is "I'll always want you in my life" if not "I love you."? I almost expected him to fall on his knees right there.

Yes, he asked her to be careful, a lot, but that was all he did and that was just Shepard being Shepard. He didn't look happy when he first saw her, he didn't say he missed her... The one dialoge that showed he cared about her a little bit was at Sanctuary when he said "and I found you", but that's it and for someone who saw his girlfriend being attacked by Kai Leng he sure seemed calm enough.

My Shepard was done with Ashley and yet he was way more concerned about her after Mars than about Miranda being okay after her encounter with Kai Leng. He is definetely the crappy boyfriend.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

>

[hot_heart]

I could see Miranda feeling undermined or disrespected if Shepard treated her like a helpless damsel. Even when he does come to the rescue, he doesn't rub it in her face or contradict her when she says "It was nothing I couldn't handle."