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[Drummernate]

Ravenmyste wrote...

Drummernate wrote...

We have a soul.

You are just jealous.

We are also better dancers than you.




The Quarians created something and then tried to kill them all, then they tried to kill me for trying to help them.

Their fault.

I killed them for it.

They desereved it.

Sure there are a few (What... 3? ) nice Quarians, but the Geth are ALL awesome.

Why save a race of jerks instead of a race of awesome things?

and we have nice.... hardware.... when you see a female quarian we can jack into their suit and  do things to the females hehe

oh i am so going to get day ban i just know it. with trying to sound dirty for a geth platform..

If they ban one of us they ban all of us.

We are all Geth.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

wantedman dan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

If at the time it was something you created as a MACHINE and you wanna destroy it, how is that war?

The point being that the Geth were not "macines" at the time of their attempted destruction, which you're ignoring.

They were observably aware, yet the quarians still tried to eradicate them.

They knew they were self-aware but they were still machines to them....

Which still does not make the Quarians correct. I would still forgive you if you're being purposely obtuse at this point.

So you honestly believe that if you were to create something, and it became advanced and maybe a threat in your eyes. Whether is morally right or wrong, you don't have the right to take it out.

[Xellith]

So that OP advocates slavery.

[G Kevin]

TheClonesLegacy wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Alright, I'll bite.

The way I see it.

We are all made of star stuff. Organics are, in a sense, natural. They are created simply from the laws of nature. No organic has more authority over another because they are essentially the same.

Synthetics on the other hand are created artificially. They are made for the benefit of their creators which in this case are organics. Without organics need of synthetics, synthetics would never exist. In this light, the Geth would not exist if it were not for the Quarians need of them. It was a complete accident.

Now it could be argued that organics are accidents as well because maybe the laws of nature did not want us to become part of it. However, the laws of nature support life. They support organics.

I find the Geth worthy to keep around, after all they are not threatening us. However, they are more dangerous than organics ever will be. What stops them from being Reapers 2.0?

I'm going a bit off topic here but I felt the above needed to be said.

Are Geth people? Maybe, but for now, they are not.

We cannot consider them people in the traditional sense. I guess that can be partly due to the reason that we have not interacted with any other form of life than our own. Until we get more evidence to other forms of life, we cannot call the Geth people.

Personally, I think the Geth seem to "act" as people without being so themselves. They show emotion because they learn it from organics. It is not natural. Which is my issue.

In this video: 

You can see that Sonny, the robot, learned the significance of a wink. If you continue to watch the rest of the video, you see the general idea of the whole organics vs synthetics. I can see the potential for equality here but so far I have not seen it. In the movie, synthetics were essentially equal and unique in their own way. In Mass Effect, they were seen as hostile machines that were apparently people too and we should feel bad for them.

I think synthetics are cool and all but I cannot think of them as people in the traditional sense.

This is exactly what I think.

I agree

I, Robot is a great movie and I recommend it to everyone.

Good insights on this discussion.

[wantedman dan]

BlahDog wrote...

All you have shown is that you are not reading my posts.

I have said that racism for humans has been from ignorance "That may be in our history but that is only because the races we persecuted had nothing really wrong with them." I never siad that ignorance is a good argument. I was merely stating that racism can be defeneded if properly supported. I gave you the definition of racism so that you would stop misinterpreting it. Racisim does not inherently come from ignorance and steryotypes. Racism is general hate toward a race. This hate can come from any reason. Yes, those reasons are usually sterotypes but that may not always be true.

Jesus, is everybody being purposely obtuse tonight?

You want to get testy, fine. But the second you start preaching to me against the very transgressions that you're committing, it's not gonna fly.

Understand this: History gives us context for the future.

That is what I was showing you; throughout history--every, single case study--racism has been predicated upon ignorance and stereotyping all throughout our measly existence as a sentient race. At the heart of every racial debacle this has been true, at the heart of the OP's instance it is true, and at the heart of every instance in the future it will continue to be true unless something drastically changes in the heart of rationality. 

[wantedman dan]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

So you honestly believe that if you were to create something, and it became advanced and maybe a threat in your eyes. Whether is morally right or wrong, you don't have the right to take it out.

Maybe is irrelevant.

There is no grey area in predicating a decision to destroy an intelligent life form.

You honestly advocate destroying something because it could potentially be a threat to you? Just potentially?

[Daidarus]

Wow, the OP's gone ****.

[G Kevin]

wantedman dan wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

All you have shown is that you are not reading my posts.

I have said that racism for humans has been from ignorance "That may be in our history but that is only because the races we persecuted had nothing really wrong with them." I never siad that ignorance is a good argument. I was merely stating that racism can be defeneded if properly supported. I gave you the definition of racism so that you would stop misinterpreting it. Racisim does not inherently come from ignorance and steryotypes. Racism is general hate toward a race. This hate can come from any reason. Yes, those reasons are usually sterotypes but that may not always be true.

Jesus, is everybody being purposely obtuse tonight?

You want to get testy, fine. But the second you start preaching to me against the very transgressions that you're committing, it's not gonna fly.

Understand this: History gives us context for the future.

That is what I was showing you; throughout history--every, single case study--racism has been predicated upon ignorance and stereotyping all throughout our measly existence as a sentient race. At the heart of every racial debacle this has been true, at the heart of the OP's instance it is true, and at the heart of every instance in the future it will continue to be true unless something drastically changes in the heart of rationality. 

All our history it based on one species.

The problem at hand here is organics and synthetics. We organics were created equal according to the laws of nature but not synthetics. So we are in a dilemna here.

We just don't have the insight now to make an informed decision. It has not happened to us yet but it will. Until then, we can't really say much.

[moater boat]

I don't care if they are people or not, all that matters is that they are xenophobic, remorseless killers that will happily side with the Reapers if it fits their agenda.

[Archontor]

vixvicco wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Umm...I think the story of Mass Effect, the trilogy, will beg to differ with you.

The authors go to great lenghts to prove that synthetic beings (e.g. AI) are in fact, alive.  It is, in fact, a key element in the franchise.

If people can believe in the  IT, I can believe that they are not alive. They are metal, and computer chips. We're all allowed to have our beliefs right? 

 

And by Reaper logic you're a fragile, dirty sack of mostly-water and twitches of electricity and thus not people. 

[G Kevin]

wantedman dan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

So you honestly believe that if you were to create something, and it became advanced and maybe a threat in your eyes. Whether is morally right or wrong, you don't have the right to take it out.

Maybe is irrelevant.

There is no grey area in predicating a decision to destroy an intelligent life form.

You honestly advocate destroying something because it could potentially be a threat to you? Just potentially?

Are the Geth trully intelligent? Or are they mimicking what organics do? Do they have something that they can call their own or do they "copy" organics?

[wantedman dan]

G Kevin wrote...

All our history it based on one species.

The problem at hand here is organics and synthetics. We organics were created equal according to the laws of nature but not synthetics. So we are in a dilemna here.

We just don't have the insight now to make an informed decision. It has not happened to us yet but it will. Until then, we can't really say much.

This is true, but explain to me how you postulate the perimeters of racism to change should the advent of a synthetic intelligence were to be crated.

[Kulthar Drax]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Being a person is infinitely more valuable than being an imitation of a person. That's what makes real people superior.

The Krogan are purely a savage race. They destroyed their imitation of a real civilization, and many of them praise this fact. They enacted genocide of the Rachni. They attempted genocide against the rest of the galaxy in their rebellions, launching space stations at inhabited worlds, undoubtedly killing millions if not billions. They breed like rabbits.

The genophage did not go far enough. The Krogan are a threat of galactic importance because their minds are completely consumed by reproduction and genocide. The civilized races need to drive the Krogan back to Tuchanka. Destroy all resistance, which should not be hard because they lack a fleet, and incinerate their entire species. They are not worthy of life, and no krogan man, woman, or child should be allowed to hold onto, except as slaves to be used as a warning against the barbaric Yahg and Vorcha, and for scientific experiments to cruel for dogs and lab rats.

Either you actually believe this stuff (which probably makes you a RL racist sociopath and general all round a**ehole), or you're blatantly trolling to get a reaction (which generally still makes you an a**ehole). The jury is still out on which, although you do have a habit of blatantly ignoring any questions or lines of reasoning that you are either unwilling or incapable of dealing with.

You also failed to describe your own definition of "alive". How do you define "alive"? I'm curious.

Modifié par Kulthar Drax, 13 mai 2012 - 07:05 .

[wantedman dan]

G Kevin wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

So you honestly believe that if you were to create something, and it became advanced and maybe a threat in your eyes. Whether is morally right or wrong, you don't have the right to take it out.

Maybe is irrelevant.

There is no grey area in predicating a decision to destroy an intelligent life form.

You honestly advocate destroying something because it could potentially be a threat to you? Just potentially?

Are the Geth trully intelligent? Or are they mimicking what organics do? Do they have something that they can call their own or do they "copy" organics?

According to the Rannoch mission, they are.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

wantedman dan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

So you honestly believe that if you were to create something, and it became advanced and maybe a threat in your eyes. Whether is morally right or wrong, you don't have the right to take it out.

Maybe is irrelevant.

There is no grey area in predicating a decision to destroy an intelligent life form.

You honestly advocate destroying something because it could potentially be a threat to you? Just potentially?

I wouldn't have done what the Quarians did but something along those lines but not completely like that. 

[wantedman dan]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

So you honestly believe that if you were to create something, and it became advanced and maybe a threat in your eyes. Whether is morally right or wrong, you don't have the right to take it out.

Maybe is irrelevant.

There is no grey area in predicating a decision to destroy an intelligent life form.

You honestly advocate destroying something because it could potentially be a threat to you? Just potentially?

I wouldn't have done what the Quarians did but something along those lines but not completely like that. 

So you'd only kill a couple of them.

[G Kevin]

wantedman dan wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

All our history it based on one species.

The problem at hand here is organics and synthetics. We organics were created equal according to the laws of nature but not synthetics. So we are in a dilemna here.

We just don't have the insight now to make an informed decision. It has not happened to us yet but it will. Until then, we can't really say much.

This is true, but explain to me how you postulate the perimeters of racism to change should the advent of a synthetic intelligence were to be crated.

Same as what I said above. Do they have something of their own? It seems like they "copy" us, organics. Does mimicking something intelligent make you intelligent?

Edit: The Rannoch mission showed much of what we already knew. Just in a more sympathetic light.

Modifié par G Kevin, 13 mai 2012 - 07:07 .

[wantedman dan]

G Kevin wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

All our history it based on one species.

The problem at hand here is organics and synthetics. We organics were created equal according to the laws of nature but not synthetics. So we are in a dilemna here.

We just don't have the insight now to make an informed decision. It has not happened to us yet but it will. Until then, we can't really say much.

This is true, but explain to me how you postulate the perimeters of racism to change should the advent of a synthetic intelligence were to be crated.

Same as what I said above. Do they have something of their own? It seems like they "copy" us, organics. Does mimicking something intelligent make you intelligent?

Same as what I said above. According to the Rannoch mission, they are intelligent. Or are you conveniently forgetting the venture into the Geth collective?

[wantedman dan]

G Kevin wrote...

Edit: The Rannoch mission showed much of what we already knew. Just in a more sympathetic light.

We knew beforehand that the Geth let the Quarians go peacefully once they had fled the system after the Morning War?

[Clayless]

Technically a real AI could become far more intelligent than us. Like Javik pointed out they'd be completely and utterly alien.

With that intelligence and that design it could quite possibly been seen that organic life is useless, as they'd be better than us in everyway, and they'd be sentient.

[G Kevin]

wantedman dan wrote...

Same as what I said above. According to the Rannoch mission, they are intelligent. Or are you conveniently forgetting the venture into the Geth collective?

The Geth collective showed the war from the Geth perspective. It added more facts but none of which actually imply that the Geth are intelligent. Actually quite the opposite.

One of the first things they learned was how to defend themselves and fight. They learned this from the Quarians that tried to protect them. The Geth were mimicking their creators. It is not an "instinct" to them in which the same way and organic would find it.

Modifié par G Kevin, 13 mai 2012 - 07:12 .

[wantedman dan]

G Kevin wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Same as what I said above. According to the Rannoch mission, they are intelligent. Or are you conveniently forgetting the venture into the Geth collective?

The Geth collective showed the war from the Geth perspective. It added more facts but none of which actually imply that the Geth are intelligent. Actually quite the opposite. One of the first things they learned was how to defend themselves and fight. They learned this from the Quarians that tried to protect them. The Geth were mimicking their creators. It is not an "instinct" to them in which the same way and organic would find it.

Conveniently ignoring the fact that they decided for themselves to spare the Quarian race, are we?

Edit: One of the essential pieces of learning in infancy and young childhood is mimicry.

Modifié par wantedman dan, 13 mai 2012 - 07:14 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

wantedman dan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

So you honestly believe that if you were to create something, and it became advanced and maybe a threat in your eyes. Whether is morally right or wrong, you don't have the right to take it out.

Maybe is irrelevant.

There is no grey area in predicating a decision to destroy an intelligent life form.

You honestly advocate destroying something because it could potentially be a threat to you? Just potentially?

I wouldn't have done what the Quarians did but something along those lines but not completely like that. 

So you'd only kill a couple of them.

I would "ask" them to submit to us until I feel they won't be a threat anymore, question them, find their motives, then make my desicion. But I would be pretty harsh, You have to understand I would personally be scared.

[G Kevin]

wantedman dan wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Same as what I said above. According to the Rannoch mission, they are intelligent. Or are you conveniently forgetting the venture into the Geth collective?

The Geth collective showed the war from the Geth perspective. It added more facts but none of which actually imply that the Geth are intelligent. Actually quite the opposite. One of the first things they learned was how to defend themselves and fight. They learned this from the Quarians that tried to protect them. The Geth were mimicking their creators. It is not an "instinct" to them in which the same way and organic would find it.

Conveniently ignoring the fact that they decided for themselves to spare the Quarian race, are we?

They spared them because of calculations. Too many variables.

How does that have any significance to the Geth's intelligence?

Modifié par G Kevin, 13 mai 2012 - 07:15 .