901 réponses à ce sujet

[TheClonesLegacy]

 Indeed Sir

[NS Wizdum]

MOIST N FLUFFY wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Do humans have anything to call their own? Or are they just copying the actions and beliefs of their parents, and those around them? Intelligence is not determined by "having something of their own". Intelligence is a combination of morals, higher reasoning, and personality. A virtual intelligence takes information from its environment, compares it to known situations, and then produces a result. Like a calculator, computing 4 * 4. The integer 4 is defined, and the multiplication function is also defined. True intelligence allows us to make decisions and choices based on incomplete data, undefined variables, and unknown factors. Intelligence also involves the desire to learn and modify our core programming as we encounter new situations and assimilate new information.

They do have things of their own. Simple way to put that is instincts. Still fair point. It does not measure intelligence.

Question here is, when have the Geth ever had a situation that required them to make decisions on incomplete data. Seemingly, they require and outside influence to make a decision for them.

MOIST N FLUFFY wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

MOIST N FLUFFY wrote...

Time for an IF THEN statement from a purely physical standpoint:
IF Geth are machines, THEN some machines must be Geth
IF Geth operate by use of electrical impulses, THEN some machines must use electrical impulses to operate
IF humans use electrical impulses (neuron interaction, nerves, etc...) to operate, THEN some machines must be humans
IF some machines are Geth and some machines are humans, THEN humans and Geth are both machines
IF humans and Geth are both machines, THEN humans and Geth are the same.

It's flawless logic. Flawless. Undeniable. Fact.

By that same logic, all humans are same to every living being that has a brain.

Precisely. 

But is that the case?

Only we, humans, are placed on the top because we are intelligent enough to use technology.

So it is the capability of harnessing technology that makes us people? Do not the Geth use technology? Can a tool command the use of another tool to accomplish a task? 

The IF THEN statement I provided is very simple, but effectively reveals that whatever quality we use to define a human must be intangible. Surely we would not consider ourselves the same as insects. As you pointed out, we humans are on top in this world. So if intellect is the one thing that makes us human, Geth are certainly capable of our intellect, if not greater intellect. Then again, would we consider a mentally handicapped person to not be human because they lacked the intellect needed to harness technology? I submit that whatever idea we use to qualify a being as a person must be existential in nature. Otherwise an IF THEN statement will always be capable of defying our conclusions.

Our ability to classify the mentally handicapped as human, despite lacking typical human characteristics, is also what makes us intelligent.

[DevilBeast]

G Kevin wrote...

I consider what I, Robot shows as our future if not careful.

Emotions.

Who is to say that we can´t create emotions in synthetic being in the future?? Remember; emotions are basically just a mixture between chemicals and electricity.

[G Kevin]

DevilBeast wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

I consider what I, Robot shows as our future if not careful.

Emotions.

Who is to say that we can´t create emotions in synthetic being in the future?? Remember; emotions are basically just a mixture between chemicals and electricity.

Which is why I see the potential with the Geth.

It has not been done so we really can't say but, it could be possible. I just don't see enough evidence to say that they are now.

Also, if we were to create synthetic beings with emotions, we would probably do so on purpose. In that case, they are different than synthetics we know.

Modifié par G Kevin, 13 mai 2012 - 05:17 .

[The Night Mammoth]

NS Wizdum wrote...

Our ability to classify the mentally handicapped as human, despite lacking typical human characteristics, is also what makes us intelligent.

Okay then. 

I'm not entirely sure how that applies to an argument against the Geth.

[The Night Mammoth]

TheClonesLegacy wrote...

 Indeed Sir

Yes, quite. 

[TheClonesLegacy]

 

[The Night Mammoth]

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 13 mai 2012 - 05:24 .

[TheClonesLegacy]

 

[DevilBeast]

G Kevin wrote...

Which is why I see the potential with the Geth.

It has not been done so we really can't say but, it could be possible. I just don't see enough evidence to say that they are now.

Also, if we were to create synthetic beings with emotions, we would probably do so on purpose. In that case, they are different than synthetics we know.

Are you referring to RL synthetics or the synthetics in ME (like the geth)??

Cause, if it´s the latter then I think that the upload of the reaper technology/code/whatever is supposed to be the geth´s step from being just a very advanced machine which wants to learn about the world and thus itself, but still can´t really grasp what "being" means (shown in f.ex their lack of individuality), into "true" feeling and thinking beings. 

[Tapkomet]

[TheClonesLegacy]

 

[Kajan451]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Therefore you have killed a beautiful, breathing, organic race for a bunch of tools, which really should be used as ****** pots and nothing more.

Because if you have some construct that runs on combustion, with its elaborate intake of oyxgen, filtered from air, to be combusted in tiny factories inside that construct and raw materials taken appart into building blocks of materials to be used to reinforce their structure and fuel said combustions, sending along electric signals through conductive pathways to move their limbs and to access information in their memory its so much more beautiful.

All that detail and skill required to to build in a system compromised of millions and millions of tiny factories with selfreplicating properties stored on blueprints. That is true beauty right there.


Really, sometimes i wish people would pay more attention in biology classes, or visit some biology classes instead of religion courses to begin with, just to broaden their horizon a little.

[NS Wizdum]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Our ability to classify the mentally handicapped as human, despite lacking typical human characteristics, is also what makes us intelligent.

Okay then. 

I'm not entirely sure how that applies to an argument against the Geth.

That was from a few pages back, I just woke up. It continues the train of thought that an intelligent being can reason outside of just looking at the physical characteristics of something. A VI would look at a mentally handicapped person and reason:
1. incappable of higher reasoning
2. unable to use complex tools

Since 1. and 2. are characteristics of a human, a mentally handicapped person must not be human. An intelligent being is able to reason around that basic assumption.

[The Night Mammoth]

NS Wizdum wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Our ability to classify the mentally handicapped as human, despite lacking typical human characteristics, is also what makes us intelligent.

Okay then. 

I'm not entirely sure how that applies to an argument against the Geth.

That was from a few pages back, I just woke up. It continues the train of thought that an intelligent being can reason outside of just looking at the physical characteristics of something. A VI would look at a mentally handicapped person and reason:
1. incappable of higher reasoning
2. unable to use complex tools

Since 1. and 2. are characteristics of a human, a mentally handicapped person must not be human. An intelligent being is able to reason around that basic assumption.

Assuming those are the only two defining factors, that there is no sign of either in said person, and that there is an absolute set of 'requirments' to be defined as human to begin with.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 13 mai 2012 - 05:41 .

[poundoffleshaa]

"Does this unit have a Soul" Legion
Tali "yes"

The geth are sentient and capable of mercy that is enough for me to consider killing them wrong. As for whether the Geth are persons well a person is defined as an individual human so no they are not (neither are the Quarians), but just because they are a different form of life to organics doesn't make killing them any more moral than killing the Quarians, they have as much right to exist as any species.

Modifié par poundoffleshaa, 13 mai 2012 - 05:41 .

[Taboo]

[The Night Mammoth]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 13 mai 2012 - 05:42 .

[Taboo]

[G Kevin]

DevilBeast wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Which is why I see the potential with the Geth.

It has not been done so we really can't say but, it could be possible. I just don't see enough evidence to say that they are now.

Also, if we were to create synthetic beings with emotions, we would probably do so on purpose. In that case, they are different than synthetics we know.

Are you referring to RL synthetics or the synthetics in ME (like the geth)??

Cause, if it´s the latter then I think that the upload of the reaper technology/code/whatever is supposed to be the geth´s step from being just a very advanced machine which wants to learn about the world and thus itself, but still can´t really grasp what "being" means (shown in f.ex their lack of individuality), into "true" feeling and thinking beings. 

I was referring to RL synthetics.

But yea. After the reaper code upgrade, the Geth were apparently intelligent. I am just applying the Geth situation to what we know now as synthetics and not from the game world. I'm sorry if what I'm trying to say does not make any sense. Currently multi-tasking with other stuff right now.

[Zardoc]

What the hell, is this 4chan?

[iorveth1271]

you again...

[NS Wizdum]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Our ability to classify the mentally handicapped as human, despite lacking typical human characteristics, is also what makes us intelligent.

Okay then. 

I'm not entirely sure how that applies to an argument against the Geth.

That was from a few pages back, I just woke up. It continues the train of thought that an intelligent being can reason outside of just looking at the physical characteristics of something. A VI would look at a mentally handicapped person and reason:
1. incappable of higher reasoning
2. unable to use complex tools

Since 1. and 2. are characteristics of a human, a mentally handicapped person must not be human. An intelligent being is able to reason around that basic assumption.

Assuming those are the only two defining factors, that there is no sign of either in said person, and that there is an absolute set of 'requirments' to be defined as human to begin with.

Those are two characteristisics that separate a mentally handicapped individual from a "normal" person. You nailed my point exactly. To an intelligent being, there is no absolute set of requirements that a human must have. However, a VI must be programmed with a deffinition of what a human is.

[Taboo]

Zardoc wrote...

What the hell, is this 4chan?

It's a way of telling the OP that we don't take him seriously.

[Xellith]

If something experiences fear - its alive.