901 réponses à ce sujet

[Xellith]

Chrillze wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

so helping the quarians make them living creatures now? and geth are not a group of people they are machines

You're very fixated on this whole "machine" thing. 

What if I scooped your brain out and stuck it in a robot body.  Would you no longer be a "person"?  Should I then consider you no more alive or important than a toaster?

But I still have a real organic brain then don't I? 

So your personal definition of a "person" would be "anything whatsoever as long as it had an organic brain"?

a person has to be alive, the geth are not alive they are machines

So far there are now 2 questions you need to answer.

1. So your personal definition of a "person" would be "anything whatsoever as long as it had an organic brain"?
2.  What is your definition of "alive".

[Kaelef]

Reign Tsumiraki wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

1. it has to be composed of cells and 2. it has to be able reproduce. 

So if I made a robot from the ground up based on cells and able to reproduce, it would meet all your criteria for being "alive" and therefore capable of being a "person"?

how would a robot be based on cells?

It's hardly impossible.  We're nearly at the point of being able to create usable organic computers and machines today - never mind 100 years from now.

Do a little research.  Get yourself some learnin'.

It just happens to be far easier (and, so far, more useful) to create machines and computers using silcon and metal.

Did you parhaps hear about how we've been able to create synthetic RNA strands that reproduce?

Yup.

[Linksys17]

Chrillze wrote...

Linksys17 wrote...

The geth have proven throughout 2 and 3 that they have ambition and intelligence, the whole Geth are tools argument you are spouting is nonsense. In my main playthrough I brokered peace and both Geth and Quarians lived in harmony, the Geth even helped build settlements and upgraded the enviro suits for the Quarians. And you realize that Genocide does not apply to a person but a group of people so seeing as how your original argument included the genocide of a species of applied to myself, would mean that you would die as well. Point is go to school

so helping the quarians make them living creatures now? and geth are not a group of people they are machines

Well actually the question you have to ask yourself is what constitutes being a "living creature"? Being organic? 
If, yes then you reject the themes introduced in the second game, you know about valuing intelligence, ambition and self aware sentient beings.

[Chrillze]

legion999 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

so helping the quarians make them living creatures now? and geth are not a group of people they are machines

You're very fixated on this whole "machine" thing. 

What if I scooped your brain out and stuck it in a robot body.  Would you no longer be a "person"?  Should I then consider you no more alive or important than a toaster?

But I still have a real organic brain then don't I? 

So your personal definition of a "person" would be "anything whatsoever as long as it had an organic brain"?

a person has to be alive, the geth are not alive they are machines

What is "alive"?

A miserable little pile of secrets. And having a brain somehow makes you alive? Lolwut? Are bacteria not alive?

nice trying to twist what I said

[Chrillze]

What if your memories, personality and neural functions would be ported to a computer?[/quote]
[/quote] But then that wouldn't be me now would it? it would just be a computer with my personality

[legion999]

Chrillze wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

so helping the quarians make them living creatures now? and geth are not a group of people they are machines

You're very fixated on this whole "machine" thing. 

What if I scooped your brain out and stuck it in a robot body.  Would you no longer be a "person"?  Should I then consider you no more alive or important than a toaster?

But I still have a real organic brain then don't I? 

So your personal definition of a "person" would be "anything whatsoever as long as it had an organic brain"?

a person has to be alive, the geth are not alive they are machines

What is "alive"?

A miserable little pile of secrets. And having a brain somehow makes you alive? Lolwut? Are bacteria not alive?

nice trying to twist what I said

That is what you said.

[M Hedonist]

This post is derailing, we need some emergency Spiderman to put it back on its rightful tracks

[Kaelef]

Chrillze -

I know that this sounds condescending, and I apologize for that, but the problem is that your definitions of "alive" and "machine" are extremely naive and limited.  They're definitions that are easy to break.  You haven't thought deeply enough about what these things really mean (which is why you can't really explain yourself any more thoroughly than you have).  They're just gut feelings at this point.  It's like the old "I know it when I see it" definition of pornography.


And if you're just trolling me and don't actually believe what you're saying, then I hope you die in a fire.  

Modifié par Kaelef, 13 mai 2012 - 09:08 .

[Chrillze]

legion999 wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

so helping the quarians make them living creatures now? and geth are not a group of people they are machines

You're very fixated on this whole "machine" thing. 

What if I scooped your brain out and stuck it in a robot body.  Would you no longer be a "person"?  Should I then consider you no more alive or important than a toaster?

But I still have a real organic brain then don't I? 

So your personal definition of a "person" would be "anything whatsoever as long as it had an organic brain"?

a person has to be alive, the geth are not alive they are machines

What is "alive"?

A miserable little pile of secrets. And having a brain somehow makes you alive? Lolwut? Are bacteria not alive?

nice trying to twist what I said

That is what you said.

no I did not, you must have misread it then, bacteria are alive. they can repoduce

[Xellith]

Notice that he hasnt actually responded to any direct questions.

[M Hedonist]

Chrillze wrote...

But then that wouldn't be me now would it? it would just be a computer with my personality

It would be as much 'you' as a perfect clone of you would be.

[Kaelef]

Xellith wrote...

Notice that he hasnt actually responded to any direct questions.

He can't.  He doesn't understand it well enough to do that.

[Chrillze]

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze -

I know that this sounds condescending, and I apologize for that, but the problem is that your definitions of "alive" and "machine" are extremely naive and limited.  They're definitions that are easy to break.  You haven't thought deeply enough about what these things really mean (which is why you can't really explain yourself any more thoroughly than you have).  They're just gut feelings at this point.  It's like the old "I know it when I see it" definition of "pornography".


And if you're just trolling me and don't actually believe what you're saying, then I hope you die in a fire.  

I would actually call Legion and the other geth a ''person'' but I would not call any of them ''living people'' and that's why I don't consider it genocide to wipe them out, because they are not alive.

[Kaelef]

Chrillze wrote...


But then that wouldn't be me now would it? it would just be a computer with my personality

I agree that it wouldn't be you.  However, I think this computer-or-whatever might be worthy of being called a "person".

[Chrillze]

Xellith wrote...

Notice that he hasnt actually responded to any direct questions.

it's hard to respond to all questions when I get 20 at a time, or when they are stupid, or when people make rediculous asumptions

[legion999]

Chrillze wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

legion999 wrote...

A miserable little pile of secrets. And having a brain somehow makes you alive? Lolwut? Are bacteria not alive?

nice trying to twist what I said

That is what you said.

no I did not, you must have misread it then, bacteria are alive. they can repoduce

So if someone is infertile they're not alive? Are the Krogan not alive? Anyway we don't know how the Geth are even created.

[Kaelef]

Chrillze wrote...

I would actually call Legion and the other geth a ''person'' but I would not call any of them ''living people'' and that's why I don't consider it genocide to wipe them out, because they are not alive.

Okay, you gave an honest answer - so I'm going to keep at this...

What's wrong with killing something that's alive?  (Honest question.)

Modifié par Kaelef, 13 mai 2012 - 09:12 .

[Reign Tsumiraki]

Kaelef wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Notice that he hasnt actually responded to any direct questions.

He can't.  He doesn't understand it well enough to do that.

This. Conversation is moot, back to spiderman.

http://t3.gstatic.co...DXgVVwSzuW4FHew

Modifié par Reign Tsumiraki, 13 mai 2012 - 09:15 .

[Catamantaloedis]

Sauruz wrote...

Now, onto more important things than trying to prove OP couldn't form a conclusive or reasonable argument (or thought, for that matter) if his life depended on it. Return to Spiderman pictures, everyone.

I actually gave my argument in the first few pages, and it was much more substantial than "Geth are not people".
However, people decided to just troll me instead of refuting what I said, so I'm pretty much done responding to you trolls.

[Chrillze]

legion999 wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

legion999 wrote...

A miserable little pile of secrets. And having a brain somehow makes you alive? Lolwut? Are bacteria not alive?

nice trying to twist what I said

That is what you said.

no I did not, you must have misread it then, bacteria are alive. they can repoduce

So if someone is infertile they're not alive? Are the Krogan not alive? Anyway we don't know how the Geth are even created.

if someone is infertile they have a sickness, most humans can reproduce and that person would still be a human 

[M Hedonist]

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze -

I know that this sounds condescending, and I apologize for that, but the problem is that your definitions of "alive" and "machine" are extremely naive and limited.  They're definitions that are easy to break.  You haven't thought deeply enough about what these things really mean (which is why you can't really explain yourself any more thoroughly than you have).  They're just gut feelings at this point.  It's like the old "I know it when I see it" definition of "pornography".


And if you're just trolling me and don't actually believe what you're saying, then I hope you die in a fire.  

I would actually call Legion and the other geth a ''person'' but I would not call any of them ''living people'' and that's why I don't consider it genocide to wipe them out, because they are not alive.

No Spiderman pic can properly illustrate how stupid that is.
So, wiping out an entire species of animals would be genocide since they're living, but wiping out sentient artificial beings wouldn't be? That's bull****. Like others said, your defintion of 'alive' is narrow and simple-minded.

Modifié par Sauruz, 13 mai 2012 - 09:15 .

[legion999]

Chrillze wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Notice that he hasnt actually responded to any direct questions.

it's hard to respond to all questions when I get 20 at a time, or when they are stupid, or when people make rediculous asumptions

Hardly a ridculous assumption. And that's a handwave excuse saying it's stupid.

[Chrillze]

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

I would actually call Legion and the other geth a ''person'' but I would not call any of them ''living people'' and that's why I don't consider it genocide to wipe them out, because they are not alive.

Okay, you gave an honest answer - so I'm going to keep at this...

What's wrong with killing something that's alive?  (Honest question.)

because it's alive?

[M Hedonist]

EDIT: Quoted instead of edited, here's Spiderman to make up for that mistake

Modifié par Sauruz, 13 mai 2012 - 09:15 .

[Chrillze]

Sauruz wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze -

I know that this sounds condescending, and I apologize for that, but the problem is that your definitions of "alive" and "machine" are extremely naive and limited.  They're definitions that are easy to break.  You haven't thought deeply enough about what these things really mean (which is why you can't really explain yourself any more thoroughly than you have).  They're just gut feelings at this point.  It's like the old "I know it when I see it" definition of "pornography".


And if you're just trolling me and don't actually believe what you're saying, then I hope you die in a fire.  

I would actually call Legion and the other geth a ''person'' but I would not call any of them ''living people'' and that's why I don't consider it genocide to wipe them out, because they are not alive.

No Spiderman pic can properly illustrate how stupid that is.
So, wiping out an entire species of animals would be genocide sicne they're living, but wiping out sentient artificial beings wouldn't be? That's bull****. Like others said, your defintion of 'alove' is narrow and simple-minded.

the artificial beings are not alive, learn biology instead of saying that all i say is bull****