901 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

Chrillze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

 the geth builds new geth, they don't reproduce. the human race as a whole can reproduce and the infertile person is a human

Geth don't reproduce. Geth aren't people.

Humans reproduce. Humans are people.

Infertile humans can't reproduce. Infertile humans are people.

What?

The geth building new units IS reproduction, just not sexual. That's like saying that a budding plant isn't reproducing, or cellural mitosis isn't reproduction.

I never said geth can't be called people, I just said that they are not alive and destroying thme isn't genocide. 

They fill the criteria for "person" pretty well in my book.

They have-

-Sapience
-Sentience
-Free will
-Higher thought processes
-Independence

The only thing they're missing is organic physiology, but you don't necessarily need to be "alive" to be alive.

[M Hedonist]

@Chrillze: Alright, enough with the hypothetical 'what if you would be turned into a synthetic' scenarios and attempt at defining 'life'; you said that it wouldn't be right to call it genocide when you wipe out the Geth. Care to elaborate what you mean by that? Do you mean that the term 'genocide' simply doesn't fit for some reason or do you actually believe that it's completely ok to wipe them out?

[Tapkomet]

Bad King wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Does anyone wants to make a bet on which species will the next thread be focused on?
I say vorcha.

My money's on the yahg.

I say elcor. Look at them, they can't express emotions properly, they aren't people!

[Bronze65]

The topic reeks of ignorance.

[legion999]

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Ok - I'm bailing on this. I'm starting to feel bad for cornering Chrillze, even if it was mostly honest inquiry. He (?) clearly doesn't have enough information to defend his position. (It doesn't help that his position is indefensible...)

lol just ****** off please, just google bioglogy and life

Chrillze wrote...

Anyway I'm going to sleep now, if you want to continue argue with me and tell me all your pathetic arguments just send me a PM. Thanks!

Coward.

[Daidarus]

Sauruz wrote...

[Reign Tsumiraki]

Troll has bailed. BACK TO SPIDERMAN. 

 

[legion999]

Tapkomet wrote...

Bad King wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Does anyone wants to make a bet on which species will the next thread be focused on?
I say vorcha.

My money's on the yahg.

I say elcor. Look at them, they can't express emotions properly, they aren't people!

Nah the Asari seem likely to me. Or the Salarians.

[Linksys17]

@chrillze

Ok please supply us with the information to prove your argument in regards to biology.
You know because your the expert on the science of biology and all :|

[M Hedonist]

Chrillze wrote...

Anyway I'm going to sleep now, if you want to continue argue with me and tell me all your pathetic arguments just send me a PM. Thanks!

[legion999]

Linksys17 wrote...

@chrillze

Ok please supply us with the information to prove your argument in regards to biology.
You know because your the expert on the science of biology and all :|

And yet apparently he is unable to spell it.

[Catamantaloedis]

Dominus Solanum wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Didn't this come up before but with Krogan? With the same type of bad photoshop job?

I don't get trolls. I get trolling every once and a while but when it's the majority of what you do online? It's like they're the annoying class clown who won't shut up because they need constant attention.

Shatterhand1701 wrote...

OP and thread reported. Have a nice weekend.

DoktorAffentanz wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

This was so exactly what I thought when reading the OP.

I mean, seriously man, what's wrong with you? You want to kill all Krogans, now the Geth, but oh savce all the quarians! I don't throw these words easy around, esp. because I'm german, but let me ask you a question: Are you a ****?


Edit: Interresting... never knew that certain words are automatically blanked out.

Hope you can figure out what I wanted to know.

Normally I don't support trolling, but this has been elevated to an art form, complete with artistic integrity. Ten pages of people actually arguing with the OP, [Adam voice] on some REAL levels [/Adam voice], five or so people aware that he's screwing with BSN, 10 pages of hilarious spiderman photos and then ten MORE pages of people arguing with each other over the OP again.

This is gold. Why are you so angry?

I'm not screwing with BSN. BSN is screwing with me.

[kookie28]

Successful troll is successful.

[Hogge87]

legion999 wrote...
Or they were killed by the Quarians. But we'll never know for certain.

ALL of them? There mus have been tens of thousands of them, some would be skilled at hiding. I'd like to compare it to families in occupied Europe whom would hide jews during WWII. Some of them were found and murdered. But there was no realistic way for the gestapo to find all of them. Just like the US doesen't have a chance in hell of completely exterminating the talibans. Likewise, I see it as wildly unrealistic that the Quarians would in fact literally fight to the last man. There would be prisoners.
Atless EC or some other content will reveal that there in fact were suitless pro-Geth Quarians living on Rannoch during the events of ME1 and ME2, one can not assume anything short of the Geth exterminating all remaining Quarian life.

[M Hedonist]

Linksys17 wrote...

@chrillze

Ok please supply us with the information to prove your argument in regards to biology.
You know because your the expert on the science of biology and all :|

His argument:
made of cells = alive
not made of cells = not alive
---> genocide against beings not made of cells is ok!!

And he calls our arguments 'pathetic'. Anyone who doesn't understand the sheer brillance of his argument needs to "learn biology".

Modifié par Sauruz, 13 mai 2012 - 09:37 .

[Taboo]

[Linksys17]

legion999 wrote...

Linksys17 wrote...

@chrillze

Ok please supply us with the information to prove your argument in regards to biology.
You know because your the expert on the science of biology and all :|

And yet apparently he is unable to spell it.

Hah, lol, he will probably argue the G is silent or something<_<

[Xellith]

Chrillze wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze -

I know that this sounds condescending, and I apologize for that, but the problem is that your definitions of "alive" and "machine" are extremely naive and limited.  They're definitions that are easy to break.  You haven't thought deeply enough about what these things really mean (which is why you can't really explain yourself any more thoroughly than you have).  They're just gut feelings at this point.  It's like the old "I know it when I see it" definition of "pornography".


And if you're just trolling me and don't actually believe what you're saying, then I hope you die in a fire.  

I would actually call Legion and the other geth a ''person'' but I would not call any of them ''living people'' and that's why I don't consider it genocide to wipe them out, because they are not alive.

No Spiderman pic can properly illustrate how stupid that is.
So, wiping out an entire species of animals would be genocide sicne they're living, but wiping out sentient artificial beings wouldn't be? That's bull****. Like others said, your defintion of 'alove' is narrow and simple-minded.

the artificial beings are not alive, learn biology instead of saying that all i say is bull****

Yet again you still havent answered my 2 questions.  Guess you lose.

[legion999]

Hogge87 wrote...

legion999 wrote...
Or they were killed by the Quarians. But we'll never know for certain.

ALL of them? There mus have been tens of thousands of them, some would be skilled at hiding. I'd like to compare it to families in occupied Europe whom would hide jews during WWII. Some of them were found and murdered. But there was no realistic way for the gestapo to find all of them. Just like the US doesen't have a chance in hell of completely exterminating the talibans. Likewise, I see it as wildly unrealistic that the Quarians would in fact literally fight to the last man. There would be prisoners.
Atless EC or some other content will reveal that there in fact were suitless pro-Geth Quarians living on Rannoch during the events of ME1 and ME2, one can not assume anything short of the Geth exterminating all remaining Quarian life.

Wait do you mean those who supported the Geth or all Quarians and other aliens?

Modifié par legion999, 13 mai 2012 - 09:40 .

[M Hedonist]

Xellith wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze -

I know that this sounds condescending, and I apologize for that, but the problem is that your definitions of "alive" and "machine" are extremely naive and limited.  They're definitions that are easy to break.  You haven't thought deeply enough about what these things really mean (which is why you can't really explain yourself any more thoroughly than you have).  They're just gut feelings at this point.  It's like the old "I know it when I see it" definition of "pornography".


And if you're just trolling me and don't actually believe what you're saying, then I hope you die in a fire.  

I would actually call Legion and the other geth a ''person'' but I would not call any of them ''living people'' and that's why I don't consider it genocide to wipe them out, because they are not alive.

No Spiderman pic can properly illustrate how stupid that is.
So, wiping out an entire species of animals would be genocide sicne they're living, but wiping out sentient artificial beings wouldn't be? That's bull****. Like others said, your defintion of 'alove' is narrow and simple-minded.

the artificial beings are not alive, learn biology instead of saying that all i say is bull****

Yet again you still havent answered my 2 questions.  Guess you lose.

Chrillze wrote...

Anyway I'm going to sleep now, if you
want to continue argue with me and tell me all your pathetic arguments
just send me a PM. Thanks!

Yup.

[palker]

this thread deserves some nice Quarian backside

[Ender Ghost]

legion999 wrote...

Hogge87 wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

1. it has to be composed of cells and 2. it has to be able reproduce. the Geth are not composed of cells and they can't reproduce

A dead person is composed of cells. 
There are humans whom aren't fertile.

I found this definition of life, which I think could potentially apply to future machines:

The physical, mental, and spiritual experiences that constitute existence: the artistic life of a writer. 

The fact of the matter is: we're all debating this because there is no answer yet. As a matter of fact, it wasn't until the 20th century when scientists could agree that animals indeed are alive. Before that, many thought that animals were genetic machines, solely acting by predictable instincts, "genetic programming", completely unable to feel emotions, thus making it ethically defendable to for example push horses off cliffs to get a good shot in a movie, or to perform particularly cruel animal tests. We might one day find that mechanical life is conceived as such a certainty, that younger generations will look down upon us for even doubting it.

That being said, I still sympathise more with the Quarians than Geth. In ME3, it's clearly shown that some Quarians wanted to help the Geth. But as there are no Quarians on Rannoch, that means that all of them, even the collaborators were exterminated by the Geth.

Or they were killed by the Quarians. But we'll never know for certain.

Or they died of old age, I doubt quarians live for 200+ years.

[Lyrebon]

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

I would actually call Legion and the other geth a ''person'' but I would not call any of them ''living people'' and that's why I don't consider it genocide to wipe them out, because they are not alive.

Okay, you gave an honest answer - so I'm going to keep at this...

What's wrong with killing something that's alive?  (Honest question.)

because it's alive?

So you're content on defending people who perform atrocious acts of malevolence and kill people for fun, but not a synthetic race of intelligent lifeforms that defended themselves?

You failed to respond to the point I made earlier when I gave you a clear definition of "person" (use a dictionary if you're unsure) whereby the geth have validity under these definitions. The geth are a race of people; they are able to think as individuals, ascertain decisions alone or as a collective (as organics do).

Maybe they don't have emotions but the practicalities of artificial intelligence would imply their neural networks are able to approximate responses to given stimuli just as the chemicals that produce our reactions do. Define "life" for me. Organic life? Synthetic life? All are relative in the passage of time where organics have evolved from single cell organisms to fully fledged intelligent lifeforms.

Upon gaining sentience, the geth have effectively achieved a state of individualism that they can relate to our own human experiences. At this stage the only difference between the geth and organic creatures is the process of information: we use synaptics and neurons while synthetics use conductors and waves.

It doesn't matter if they're "alive" or not, they each have a personality and the desire to learn as do intelligent organics. Sure they might seem similar at first but their experiences will shape them, change them on a singular level where each of them will become self-reliant.

Killing them off at this stage is denying them, as a race, that chance to evolve. By the way, the canon ending for me is that both the geth and quarians were saved.

Modifié par Lyrebon, 13 mai 2012 - 09:43 .

[legion999]

palker wrote...

this thread deserves some nice Quarian backside

I approve.

[M Hedonist]

Lyrebon wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

I would actually call Legion and the other geth a ''person'' but I would not call any of them ''living people'' and that's why I don't consider it genocide to wipe them out, because they are not alive.

Okay, you gave an honest answer - so I'm going to keep at this...

What's wrong with killing something that's alive?  (Honest question.)

because it's alive?

So you're content on defending people who perform atrocious acts of malevolence and kill people for fun, but not a synthetic race of intelligent lifeforms that defended themselves?

You failed to respond to the point I made earlier when I gave you a clear definition of "person" (use a dictionary if you're unsure) whereby the geth have validity under these definitions. The geth are a race of people; they are able to think as individuals, ascertain decisions alone or as a collective (as organics do).

Maybe they don't have emotions but the practicalities of artificial intelligence would imply their neural networks are able to approximate responses to given stimuli just as the chemicals that produce our reactions do. Define "life" for me. Organic life? Synthetic life? All are relative in the passage of time where organics have evolved from single cell organisms to fully fledged intelligent lifeforms.

Upon gaining sentience, the geth have effectively achieved a state of individualism that they can relate to our own human experiences. At this stage the only difference between the geth and organic creatures is the process of information: we use synaptics and neurons while synthetics use conductors and waves.

It doesn't matter if they're "alive" or not, they each have a personality and the desire to learn as do intelligent organics. Sure they might seem similar at first but their experiences will shape them, change them on a singular level where each of them will become self-reliant.

Killing them off at this stage is denying them, as a race, that chance to evolve. By the way, the canon ending for me is that both the geth and quarians were saved.

Sadly, he has chickened out by now. And what is laughingly to be called his argument was just starting to get ripped apart.