901 réponses à ce sujet

[ReXspec]

dmonorato wrote...

35 pages of reply's... You sir are the best troll in the history of the internet

Please, don't encourage him...

[Shajar]

Geth arent tools after Reaper upgrade, they are "living" persons with their own desires. I agree that they were tools before it, but not anymore.

[M Hedonist]

BlatantXenophobeTroll wrote...

Not my fault that you people are
too incompetent to continue reading past the first page. If you wanted
to see my argument then you would have continued reading.

Instead, you people want to just troll, so have fun!

"No, seriously, my real, super awesome foolproof argument is somewhere in this thread. But you're too stupid so I won't bother trying to recreate it here trollololol
btw there's also a unicorn somewhere in this thread, try finding it lulz"

BlatantXenophobeTroll wrote...

People do tend to believe that
they are being trolled, once they encounter an argument against which
they have no response. It's very convenient to just call troll, and
proceed to spam pics.

"Geth are not people, people are the things that Geth are not"
Yup. I seriously have no idea how to argue against that kind of logic.

dmonorato wrote...

35 pages of reply's... You sir are the best troll in the history of the internet

You haven't seen that many trolls yet, have you? Most of the posts in here are Spiderman, anyway. Speaking of which,

Modifié par Sauruz, 14 mai 2012 - 12:37 .

[Hyperion II]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Hyperion II wrote...



My reaction to OP's stupidity.

Now that's just offensive.

I hope you feel good about yourself.

Very. Thanks for asking.

[wryterra]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Not my fault that you people are too incompetent to continue reading past the first page. If you wanted to see my argument then you would have continued reading.

Instead, you people want to just troll, so have fun!

You on the other hand ignore anyone who does actually debate you with reason and logic, choosing to hide behind the troll replies to claim that no one can argue with you. You don't actually defend your argument against criticism, just claim that no one is criticising it and that no one can, despite the evidence to the contrary. 

Which makes you a... [fill in the blank yourself].

Modifié par wryterra, 14 mai 2012 - 09:03 .

[antony1197]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

I love how "I disagree with this person's logic, but have no argument against it" translates into "Trolling" on this site.

I love how all you said is basically "they arent people that means im right" but honestly dont even bother to respond NOBODY here takes you seriously so you can go now...

[alpha54]

The OP might be a troll, but that doesn't mean he's not right. It strikes me as ridiculous that anyone would care what happens to the Geth. They are not people. They are tools. Do some of you get this attached to your toasters as well? Your washing machines?

[Zaxares]

alpha54 wrote...

The OP might be a troll, but that doesn't mean he's not right. It strikes me as ridiculous that anyone would care what happens to the Geth. They are not people. They are tools. Do some of you get this attached to your toasters as well? Your washing machines?

My toaster and washing machine are not intelligent. They are not capable of making rational, independent, and even moral decisions. The geth could have chosen to pursue the quarians when they first fled Rannoch and wiped them out completely. They did not. The geth had no need to try and clean up Rannoch after the Morning War to remove rubble and toxins from the world (what purpose would that serve to a synthetic race?), but they did it anyway. Why would they do that unless they expected that organics would one day return to Rannoch?

The geth might not be "people" by the traditional definition of the term, but they are clearly a sentient race that deserve to be treated as equals.

[EVL65R]

Johnny 5 is alive

Btw, I know when my car is sick. Or when he is having fun. Seriously. Google "Peter Brock, Polarizer". He was onto something...

[kookie28]

Zaxares wrote...

alpha54 wrote...

The OP might be a troll, but that doesn't mean he's not right. It strikes me as ridiculous that anyone would care what happens to the Geth. They are not people. They are tools. Do some of you get this attached to your toasters as well? Your washing machines?

My toaster and washing machine are not intelligent. They are not capable of making rational, independent, and even moral decisions. The geth could have chosen to pursue the quarians when they first fled Rannoch and wiped them out completely. They did not. The geth had no need to try and clean up Rannoch after the Morning War to remove rubble and toxins from the world (what purpose would that serve to a synthetic race?), but they did it anyway. Why would they do that unless they expected that organics would one day return to Rannoch?

The geth might not be "people" by the traditional definition of the term, but they are clearly a sentient race that deserve to be treated as equals.

No one "deserves" anything in the grand scheme of things. 

[M Hedonist]

alpha54 wrote...

The OP might be a troll, but that doesn't mean he's not right. It strikes me as ridiculous that anyone would care what happens to the Geth. They are not people. They are tools. Do some of you get this attached to your toasters as well? Your washing machines?

Comparing the Geth to toasters, ah yes. By that same logic, you're no more of a 'person' than vegetable is.

[Aurora313]

The Geth gain sentience, EDI is sentient. Both synthetic people have the ability to ask questions like 'What am I? Why am I here? Do I have a soul? Am I alive?'

Simply because they can ask these questions, they are worth being treated as other sentient species are.

[Chrillze]

Shajar wrote...

Geth arent tools after Reaper upgrade, they are "living" persons with their own desires. I agree that they were tools before it, but not anymore.

I agree that they are not tools and it is unfortunate that they have to be destroyed in the destroy ending but they are not alive, they are jsut machines and can be rebuilt

[Xellith]

Chrillze wrote...

Shajar wrote...

Geth arent tools after Reaper upgrade, they are "living" persons with their own desires. I agree that they were tools before it, but not anymore.

I agree that they are not tools and it is unfortunate that they have to be destroyed in the destroy ending but they are not alive, they are jsut machines and can be rebuilt

At the time the game is set.  Who cares about ANY race specifically. They are just biological machines and can literally be rebuilt.

Machine or organic is irrelevant.  The argument that machines are tools is the same argument that people used a few hundred years ago with regards to black slaves.  "They are just machines. Tools to be used".  "They are just ni**ers.  Tools to be used".  You see how perspective changed over time?  This is the exact same type of talk used by slavers.

[shurryy]

BunBun299 wrote...

shurryy wrote...

ROFL! Looking at the reaction from 90% of the people in this thread I can safely say: people are so dumb...Like it or not, the OP is right. Geth are tools. They were created to be tools and nothing more, they were never intended to become self-aware and rebel against the creators. If you sided with the geth, you actually did commit massive genocide. When you side with the Quarians all you do is destroy some tools that can be recycled and turned into new tools.

Saying that Geth is an own living race is like saying my hammer hanging in my shed is it's own living race.

You hammer is capable of building its own star fleet, experimenting on organic races via the extranet, sending out an independant scout to make contact with the only being to kill an Old Machine, all independent of you picking it up? The Geth may have been intended to be tools, but they became more. And maybe they aren't all that similar to any other life forms in the galaxy, but they do think. Probably think more in a few minutes time than we think in our whole life times. I think, therefore, I am.

The only way you can definitively say the Geth are not life forms is if you have some means the rest of us are not aware of for determining whether or not someone or something has a soul. As Captain Phillipa Louvois says in the video that has been linked to this thread more than once, I don't even know that I have one. Its a matter of faith to say whether or not a soul even exists. And I cannot definitively say that a machine that is capable of thinking for itself does not have one, any more than I can definitely say that I do.

Lacking such a means to determine whether or not Geth have souls, we can only observe them and compare them to other life forms. They can think. Their whole goal in the universe was to build a super structure capable of housing all of them so they could all think together. They demonstrate self preservation. They use strategy. And they demonstrate a capacity for forgiveness that far exceeds many other races around them. The instant the Geth/Quarian war is over, they hold no grudge what so ever, they immidiately begin helping their creators settle back into Rannoch. Cold unfeeling machines would see no benefit to this, they would see only whether Quarians were useful to them. They aren't. Shepard might be, as an ally against the Old Machines. But the Quarians are nothing to them but a liablity. And yet, they forgive.

Not only are the Geth lifeforms, but I'd say they're more worthy of preserving than several of the organic races we encounter.

If you kill a person... Human, made of flesh. Can you take the bodyparts, split them apart, sew them together and expect to create another living person? 
Let me answer for you: No. See Frankenstein.

The Geth on the other hand are machines and can be torn apart and be put together, because they have a hive-mind system and will anyway be able to communicate normally like before without much trouble. One gets destroyed... So what? Let's build a new one and replace the old one! That one geth was not a huge loss to us... Unlike people.

Your dad dies, how do you feel?
Your computer is screwed over... **** that, buy new parts and assemble a new one. Only thing stopping you is the price. 

Grimwick wrote...

If your hammer had a conscience and was aware of it's own existance then yes it would be sentient. If your hammer also exhibited strong signalling and self-sustaining abilities then your hammer would be alive.

The geth do both of these things, they are alive and sentient for all purposes and are therefore able to have the same treatment and the same rights we give ourselves.

Your attitude to the nature of life and of synthetic beings is short sighted, immature and hideously selfish - and your attitude to people who can actually understand what makes something alive is also terrible.

 
Thank you for all your nice words! You are also hideously naive. 

Geth are tools, servants who rebelled, never intended to be sentient. They are machines, nothing more, even if they became sentient it was never intended and should never have happened. They are a failure, a Quarian mistake. If your computer started talking to you as if it was living and sentient, would you hesitate to shut it down? Or would you let it evolve only to realize that it was being used as a tool, a human slave so to speak, and then start messing up our world in ways you can't imagine. That's what the Geth did, since the Quarians acted too slowly. Besides they are prone to change sides on a whim siding with Reapers just because they feared for their false existance... If the Geth never happened: Sovereign wouldn't be a huge threat, the battle over Rannoch would've never taken place, and the Quarians would easily have made up with the lost firepower of the Geth allies with their own had they had their own planet... Making the struggle for the galaxy MUCH easier. 

Geth are nothing but an unwelcome mistake who tried to kill you on several occasions. 
How you can side with a hammer in your shed who suddenly turned sentient, crafted specifically to be your loyal tool/slave and being unhappy not allowing you to use it anymore is beyond my comprehension. 

Modifié par shurryy, 14 mai 2012 - 01:44 .

[malakim2099]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

 If you sided with the geth and committed genocide on the Quarians then you deserve to have genocide committed on you because geth, and synthetics as a whole, are not people. Therefore you have killed a beautiful, breathing, organic race for a bunch of tools, which really should be used as ****** pots and nothing more.

Troll is trolling.

Geth are sentient beings worthy of respect, as they only wish to self-determinate (save for heretics, but they were dealt with in ME2).

Which I'm sure was touched on, but it's really just that simple. A sentient, thinking being is not a "tool," and treating them as such is akin to slavery or worse. Which is exactly what the Quarians did.

Now me, I got them to live together in peace, despite what the Starchild thinks.

Modifié par malakim2099, 14 mai 2012 - 01:57 .

[Reign Tsumiraki]

[D00m580]

Mhm, now realistically would a sane person (Shepard in this case) choose sapient machines one of which consistently manipulated him into a questionable upgrade for the said machines based on the enemy technology to fight another race of sapient machines with genocidal tendencies? Common sense says no.
Geth's so called pacifism be damned, Krogan you can at least attempt to reason with. With Geth and their entirely alien perspective... let's just say, choosing Geth over Quarians is not a reasonable option.
Mind you I choose peace.

[Reign Tsumiraki]

D00m580 wrote...

Mhm, now realistically would a sane person (Shepard in this case) choose sapient machines one of which consistently manipulated him into a questionable upgrade for the said machines based on the enemy technology to fight another race of sapient machines with genocidal tendencies? Common sense says no.
Geth's so called pacifism be damned, Krogan you can at least attempt to reason with. With Geth and their entirely alien perspective... let's just say, choosing Geth over Quarians is not a reasonable option.
Mind you I choose peace.

Why is is not reasonable?

Geth has never initiated violence in their 300 years of existance. All they have ever done, is simply try to exist. The Codex states that the Geth "never expected anything but violence from organic races".

And yet, even though they're more powerful, they don't attack. 

Logic dictates that if you're more powerful then someone, and that someone might try to kill you later, that it would be better to kill them.

The Geth chose, instead, to try to understand, not conquer. Not kill.

And that's what made me like them. They understand that violence is the last resort of the civilized man.

[D00m580]

And yet they allow a reaper code which is not understood or fully researched even by them, with solid evidence of the code turning them violent in their network, and expect you to trust them as allies, while at the same time the largest fleet in the galaxy gets wiped out. I wouldn't call that kind of bargain reasonable with a war against a foe with superiority in space warfare reasonable.
Choosing Geth can make Shepard a nice person but at the same time makes him the lamest strategist in history.

[richard_rider]

They started off as a hive mind, and even still they were capable of making rational, logical decisions...after the upgrade, they are able to make those decisions on an individual level.

There are many viewpoints on this, and what constitutes a "person", but to me, cogito ergo sum explains it well.

[D00m580]

And yet they allow a reaper code which is not understood or fully researched even by them, with solid evidence of the code turning them violent in their network, and expect you to trust them as allies, while at the same time the largest fleet in the galaxy gets wiped out. I wouldn't call that kind of bargain reasonablewith a war against a foe with superiority in space warfare.
Choosing Geth can make Shepard a nice person but at the same time makes him the lamest strategist in history.

[Fail_Inc]

But /that/ unit HAS a soul brah

[J0HNL3I]

Its been so fun to watch this thread over the past 24 hours