505 réponses à ce sujet

[Tom Lehrer]

KingZayd wrote...

Aren't there? What human squad members have we had? Shepard, Kaiden, Ashley, Miranda, Jacob, Jack.
Half of those had biotics. "There are rumours that, after the link between eezo and biotics was discovered, some human colonies were deliberately exposed to dust-form element zero to create more biotic children. " Nothing indicates a shortage of human biotics.

 

Yandoa the location of the worst eezo accident only produced around 30 kids with biotic powers. Many Biotics join the military and their powers lead them into elite and special forces. Its the same reason everyone on a professional basketball team is 7 feet tall.

KingZayd wrote...
However: "Salarian biotics are unusual and highly prized. The salarian military does not risk them in the front lines but instead uses them in intelligence services. "

Why haven't the Salarians looked into this? It seems to suggest that this procedure (which does work on Krogan, with high mortality rates, despite all the redundancy in their systems which makes killing Krogan difficult) is only possible because of said Krogan biology.

I would think it strange if they did not look into it. Salerian  bodies are not very strong, physically only the Volus are weaker. This weakness even with more advanced tech would make artifical biotics a challenge. Cerberus can bring people back from the dead so how hard can biotics be for guys like them?

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 13 mai 2012 - 06:47 .

[balance5050]

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


I'm sure ME3 spans a few months, so the timeframe between TIM implanting and Shep meeting him on the Citadel could very well be quite a few days.

Well from what we see he goes to bed at least once. With the mass relays and FTL, it's safe to assume that each journey should take less than 24 hours right?

Horizon -> Cerberus Base -> London.
2 days tops, especially since Shepard is meant to be in a rush.

Well a couple of days should be enough for TIM to develop enough biotics to *sort of* hold Shep and Anderson against their will... He does fail at it afterall so it would make sense that the powers he is using aren't fully developed.

based on what?

Based on some random quote from one of the novels I was shown earlier.

Show us. I don't think that quote exists.

[jijeebo]

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


I'm sure ME3 spans a few months, so the timeframe between TIM implanting and Shep meeting him on the Citadel could very well be quite a few days.

Well from what we see he goes to bed at least once. With the mass relays and FTL, it's safe to assume that each journey should take less than 24 hours right?

Horizon -> Cerberus Base -> London.
2 days tops, especially since Shepard is meant to be in a rush.

Well a couple of days should be enough for TIM to develop enough biotics to *sort of* hold Shep and Anderson against their will... He does fail at it afterall so it would make sense that the powers he is using aren't fully developed.

based on what?

Based on some random quote from one of the novels I was shown earlier.

I don't see anything giving us the timescale of the ability development in that quote.

I was shown a quote and then told that it means biotic abilities gained through implants take a few days to properly develop.

Following that logic I concluded that the timescale of a couple of days between Sanctuary and Earth was enough time for TIM to develop adequate biotic powers.

[Sdrol117]

 And they are all equally stupid.

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


I'm sure ME3 spans a few months, so the timeframe between TIM implanting and Shep meeting him on the Citadel could very well be quite a few days.

Well from what we see he goes to bed at least once. With the mass relays and FTL, it's safe to assume that each journey should take less than 24 hours right?

Horizon -> Cerberus Base -> London.
2 days tops, especially since Shepard is meant to be in a rush.

Well a couple of days should be enough for TIM to develop enough biotics to *sort of* hold Shep and Anderson against their will... He does fail at it afterall so it would make sense that the powers he is using aren't fully developed.

based on what?

Based on some random quote from one of the novels I was shown earlier.

I don't see anything giving us the timescale of the ability development in that quote.

I was shown a quote and then told that it means biotic abilities gained through implants take a few days to properly develop.

Following that logic I concluded that the timescale of a couple of days between Sanctuary and Earth was enough time for TIM to develop adequate biotic powers.

It took more then 2 days for Paul to become powefull. 

[balance5050]

Sdrol117 wrote...

 And they are all equally stupid.

Typical anti-I.T. response.

"Herp derp... it's stupid... derp."

Mind backing up that disingenuous assertion?

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 told jijeebo:

I dnot need to ...You have to prove that it is sice you brought it up...Using proof.
Also....I can prove that it's not possible for him to learn advance biotic abilities...

From ME:retribution...
Even though he was no longer in control of his body, he could feel that the cybernetics had made himboth faster and stronger. He was more aware of his surroundings; his senses were heightened to asupernatural level. The melding of man and machine had created a being that was physically superior toany evolutionary design.But that wasn’t the only change. He was also developing rudimentary biotic abilities beyond thosetemporarily
granted by dosing up with red sand. He could sense his Reaper masters pushing and probing,eager to test the limits of his weak but ever-growing power.
(Page 59). The Reapers turned his body to face the shelf of provisions. Inside he felt a buildup of energy, like
astatic charge increased a thousandfold. His hand rose, palm extended toward the ration kits. There was asudden jolt along the length of his arm, strong enough to send a flare of pain shooting up to
Grayson’shelpless consciousness.The neat pile of carefully stacked rations was blown apart by the impact of a biotic push. Boxes shotup into the air, bouncing off the shelves and wall before clattering onto the floor.It was hardly an impressive display. Grayson had seen his own daughter lift a thousand-kilogram pieceof machinery and use it to crush a pair of Cerberus agents. The scattered ration packs weighed less thana
kilogram each, and the impact hadn’t even been powerful enough to burst the seals keeping the foodinside fresh. But he knew his power would continue to grow, and he sensed the Reapers were pleased.Grayson lowered
his arm, and it took him a full second before the significance of the action struck him.He had lowered his arm; not the Reapers—him!The bioticdisplay must have temporarily weakened their control of his body. Recognizing that theirdomination of his will was not yet absolute was all the encouragement he needed to fight back.
(Page 60). 

My point is that at first when the reaper implat the body.....They can give it biotic power...But it's too weak to do anything at first. TIM has not the time to advance to higher levels of power yet. Remeber he was
seen as whole in cerberus and that was hours before the end of ME3. The reapers can develop biotic powers in a person beyond a push at the start of the implantation of indoctrination.... It took Greyson days to get the biotic power he ended up with.

Thats what my argument is based off, including the part where TIM hasn't yet developed substantial power.

EDIT: bad copy-paste formatting

Modifié par jijeebo, 13 mai 2012 - 06:51 .

[Bill Casey]

Put IT aside for a second here...

If you think the Illusive Man is using biotic powers to put whispers in Shepard's head and a tendril blur on the screen, you are just dense...

Even in the face of the files for his newfound abilities being called "ReaperIndoc" and "ReaperPower"...

Wow...

[KingZayd]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Aren't there? What human squad members have we had? Shepard, Kaiden, Ashley, Miranda, Jacob, Jack.
Half of those had biotics. "There are rumours that, after the link between eezo and biotics was discovered, some human colonies were deliberately exposed to dust-form element zero to create more biotic children. " Nothing indicates a shortage of human biotics.

 

Yandoa the location of the worst eezo accident only produced around 30 kids with biotic powers. Many Biotics join the military and their powers lead them into elite and special forces. Its the same reason everyone on a professional basketball team is 7 feet tall.

KingZayd wrote...
However: "Salarian biotics are unusual and highly prized. The salarian military does not risk them in the front lines but instead uses them in intelligence services. "

Why haven't the Salarians looked into this? It seems to suggest that this procedure (which does work on Krogan, with high mortality rates, despite all the redundancy in their systems which makes killing Krogan difficult) is only possible because of said Krogan biology.

I would think it strange if they did not look into. Salerian  bodies are not very strong, physically only the Volus are weaker. This weakness even with more advanced tech would make artifical biotics a challenge. Cerberus can bring people back from the dead so how hard can biotics be for guys like them?

They brought Shepard back from the dead (somehow), but that took ages. Biotics would require rebuilding the body too, as you have to get the eezo nodes to develop.

How do you know it's the worst incident? And how do you know that the eezo is gone after these incidents, and doesn't stay in this environment?

[Gorkan86]

Here's what's really interesting is the continuation of events after Shepard wakes up. According to IT (ie the old version), Sheppard wakes up and ... what should happen? Or is it no longer belongs to IT?

[balance5050]

Bill Casey wrote...

Put IT aside for a second here...

If you think the Illusive Man is using biotic powers to put whispers in Shepard's head and a tendril blur on the screen, you are just dense...

Even in the face of the files for his newfound abilities being called "ReaperIndoc" and "ReaperPower"...

Wow...

I'll say it again.... we like to use evidence. There's overwhelming evidence that TIM is using reaper power (indoctrination) on Shepard and Biotic use is an assumption with little to nothing backing it up.

[balance5050]

Gorkan86 wrote...

Here's what's really interesting is the continuation of events after Shepard wakes up. According to IT (ie the old version), Sheppard wakes up and ... what should happen? Or is it no longer belongs to IT?

The *extended* scenes coming out this summer will most likely address this concern.

[Bill Casey]

This is irrespective of IT...
The Illusive Man does have reaper abilities...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 mai 2012 - 06:57 .

[KingZayd]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 told jijeebo:

I dnot need to ...You have to prove that it is sice you brought it up...Using proof.
Also....I can prove that it's not possible for him to learn advance biotic abilities...

From ME:retribution...
Even though he was no longer in control of his body, he could feel that the cybernetics had made himboth faster and stronger. He was more aware of his surroundings; his senses were heightened to asupernatural level. The melding of man and machine had created a being that was physically superior toany evolutionary design.But that wasn’t the only change. He was also developing rudimentary biotic abilities beyond thosetemporarily
granted by dosing up with red sand. He could sense his Reaper masters pushing and probing,eager to test the limits of his weak but ever-growing power.
(Page 59). The Reapers turned his body to face the shelf of provisions. Inside he felt a buildup of energy, like
astatic charge increased a thousandfold. His hand rose, palm extended toward the ration kits. There was asudden jolt along the length of his arm, strong enough to send a flare of pain shooting up to
Grayson’shelpless consciousness.The neat pile of carefully stacked rations was blown apart by the impact of a biotic push. Boxes shotup into the air, bouncing off the shelves and wall before clattering onto the floor.It was hardly an impressive display. Grayson had seen his own daughter lift a thousand-kilogram pieceof machinery and use it to crush a pair of Cerberus agents. The scattered ration packs weighed less thana
kilogram each, and the impact hadn’t even been powerful enough to burst the seals keeping the foodinside fresh. But he knew his power would continue to grow, and he sensed the Reapers were pleased.Grayson lowered
his arm, and it took him a full second before the significance of the action struck him.He had lowered his arm; not the Reapers—him!The bioticdisplay must have temporarily weakened their control of his body. Recognizing that theirdomination of his will was not yet absolute was all the encouragement he needed to fight back.
(Page 60). 

My point is that at first when the reaper implat the body.....They can give it biotic power...But it's too weak to do anything at first. TIM has not the time to advance to higher levels of power yet. Remeber he was
seen as whole in cerberus and that was hours before the end of ME3. The reapers can develop biotic powers in a person beyond a push at the start of the implantation of indoctrination.... It took Greyson days to get the biotic power he ended up with.

Thats what my argument is based off, including the part where TIM hasn't yet developed substantial power.

EDIT: bad copy-paste formatting

Stopping 2 full grown men is quite impressive after 2 days (even if the control over Shepard is not completely effective).  Yeah, i found that quote, but it doesn't say anything about how quickly these powers develop. If they develop this quickly and impressively, then TIM was missing a trick with all those Cerberus troops he had implanted and indoctrinated.

Modifié par KingZayd, 13 mai 2012 - 06:57 .

[Sdrol117]

balance5050 wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

 And they are all equally stupid.

Typical anti-I.T. response.

"Herp derp... it's stupid... derp."

Mind backing up that disingenuous assertion?

The fact that the entire theory hinges on "fixing" bad writing by pretending it never happened. Your theory sucks, time to move on.

Modifié par Sdrol117, 13 mai 2012 - 06:58 .

[Bill Casey]

Sdrol117 wrote...

by pretending it never happened.

Stop using fallacies...
No version of IT is "it never happened" or "all a dream"...
It's Shepard fighting the Reapers most insidious weapon...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 mai 2012 - 07:00 .

[Gorkan86]

There is a strong possibility that Shepard's teammates also indoctrinated. Do you think this is suitable for IT?

I want to say that if some time after the ending Garrus kill Shepard or something bad will happen. For example Shepard will have to kill them all, as Javik had to kill his friends.

Perhaps these events will be in the DLC.

Modifié par Gorkan86, 13 mai 2012 - 07:04 .

[jijeebo]

Bill Casey wrote...

Put IT aside for a second here...

If you think the Illusive Man is using biotic powers to put whispers in Shepard's head and a tendril blur on the screen, you are just dense...

Even in the face of the files for his newfound abilities being called "ReaperIndoc" and "ReaperPower"...

Wow...

TIM is using biotic powers for the physical control aspect, and the reaper implants are contributing the whispers and w/e. That's my current thinking, and i'd appreciate it if you didn't just flat out insult me because of it, thanks.


And I have a lovely file called shepard_male_alive or something to that effect, yet according to IT he is simply awake.

Wow...

[CavScout]

Bill Casey wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

by pretending it never happened.

Stop using fallacies...
No version of IT is "it never happened" or "all a dream"...
It's Shepard fighting the Reapers most insidious weapon...

They all speculate that the ending sequence didn't not occur outside of Shep's mind, I.E. it did not literally happen. Don't' be coy.

[An English Gamer]

United_Strafes wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

the IT gets a bad rap because people don't understand it. maybe it's the name that confuses some people.

No it gets a bad rap because it doesn't exist, they've said it, it's not going to change, the endings are what they are, get over it.

IT works with the current endings. If nothing changes except the results IT could still exist...

[KingZayd]

jijeebo wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Put IT aside for a second here...

If you think the Illusive Man is using biotic powers to put whispers in Shepard's head and a tendril blur on the screen, you are just dense...

Even in the face of the files for his newfound abilities being called "ReaperIndoc" and "ReaperPower"...

Wow...

TIM is using biotic powers for the physical control aspect, and the reaper implants are contributing the whispers and w/e. That's my current thinking, and i'd appreciate it if you didn't just flat out insult me because of it, thanks.


And I have a lovely file called shepard_male_alive or something to that effect, yet according to IT he is simply awake.

Wow...

insults aside, to be awake you have to be alive.

[Sdrol117]

CavScout wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

by pretending it never happened.

Stop using fallacies...
No version of IT is "it never happened" or "all a dream"...
It's Shepard fighting the Reapers most insidious weapon...

They all speculate that the ending sequence didn't not occur outside of Shep's mind, I.E. it did not literally happen. Don't' be coy.

Typical IT defender response right there. 

[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Put IT aside for a second here...

If you think the Illusive Man is using biotic powers to put whispers in Shepard's head and a tendril blur on the screen, you are just dense...

Even in the face of the files for his newfound abilities being called "ReaperIndoc" and "ReaperPower"...

Wow...

I'll say it again.... we like to use evidence. There's overwhelming evidence that TIM is using reaper power (indoctrination) on Shepard and Biotic use is an assumption with little to nothing backing it up.

I never really said it was anything else... Sorry for not finding fool-proof evidence to back it up immediately, jesus.

[jijeebo]

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Put IT aside for a second here...

If you think the Illusive Man is using biotic powers to put whispers in Shepard's head and a tendril blur on the screen, you are just dense...

Even in the face of the files for his newfound abilities being called "ReaperIndoc" and "ReaperPower"...

Wow...

TIM is using biotic powers for the physical control aspect, and the reaper implants are contributing the whispers and w/e. That's my current thinking, and i'd appreciate it if you didn't just flat out insult me because of it, thanks.


And I have a lovely file called shepard_male_alive or something to that effect, yet according to IT he is simply awake.

Wow...

insults aside, to be awake you have to be alive.

According to IT Shep is alive in every ending... So why make that distinction for the breath scene?

[Tom Lehrer]

KingZayd wrote...

They brought Shepard back from the dead (somehow), but that took ages. Biotics would require rebuilding the body too, as you have to get the eezo nodes to develop.

How do you know it's the worst incident? And how do you know that the eezo is gone after these incidents, and doesn't stay in this environment?

It  is easy to see them growing the eezo nods in tubes outside the body and implanting them when they are done. Even today the medical fields are experimenting with methods to grow viable organs outside the body. Once the nods are in the body all they would have to do is hook it up to the nervous system. That is the hard part and likely the cause of it fatality rate in Krogan but would be far safer for the much more advanced Cerberus.

The ME novles says Yandoa was the worst incident. There is also nothing to indicate that these areas stay at high risk for eezo exposer. Like an oil spill people would not be allowed back until clean up efforts are done.

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 13 mai 2012 - 07:08 .