505 réponses à ce sujet

[Gorkan86]

CavScout wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

by pretending it never happened.

Stop using fallacies...
No version of IT is "it never happened" or "all a dream"...
It's Shepard fighting the Reapers most insidious weapon...

They all speculate that the ending sequence didn't not occur outside of Shep's mind, I.E. it did not literally happen. Don't' be coy.

What about Citadel explosion?
If you support IT number 2, it's mean Shep will have to die in Citadel explosion. But somehow he draw breath.

I don't intend to "support" any of the ITs... IT supprters will say the Citadel didn't explode (it was all in his head) and then will use the explosion as proof of IT (Shep could live if it exploded!). A major case of having your cake and eating it too!

So mass relays explosions also just in Shepard head?

[Sdrol117]

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Exactly. It's either face value bad writing, or IT. And since I particularly wasn't a fan of ME2s writing/story after the beauty of ME1...I may be slightly biased towards simply bad writing.  

It really isn't the bolded. That is an IT positioned false choice fallacy.

I don't think I get what you mean...Unless youre imply the ending wasn't bad writing. 

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Thats like reading lord of the rings and saying "nothing can be used against the theory that there is one ring to rule them all" 

The author wouldn't write anything that says they aren't trying to indoctrinate Shepard, because indoctrinating Sheprd was the author's intention.

As well as indoctrinating the player.

EC wasn't planned, IT wasn't their intention.

Unless part of the IT scheme involved deliberately lieing to an already angry fanbase.

That's left up to speculation. You can't say that with certainty.

IMAGE SNIP 

He's image bombing early. I guess he feels defeated sooner than usual.

[Sdrol117]

balance5050 wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Thats like reading lord of the rings and saying "nothing can be used against the theory that there is one ring to rule them all" 

The author wouldn't write anything that says they aren't trying to indoctrinate Shepard, because indoctrinating Sheprd was the author's intention.

As well as indoctrinating the player.

EC wasn't planned, IT wasn't their intention.

Unless part of the IT scheme involved deliberately lieing to an already angry fanbase.

The next thing they will say is Bioware was just indoctrinating us IRL.

I actually already said that....

No...I don't mean by the story. I mean by the whole DLC thing.

[Bill Casey]

CavScout wrote...

I can have a dream. I may have dreamed but what I dreamed didn't really happen. Same with the IT endings.

Unless you're in a Nightmare on Elm Street movie, and Freddy Krueger is in your dream trying to kill you, that is not a valid comparison...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 mai 2012 - 07:23 .

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
I don't intend to "support" any of the ITs... IT supprters will say the Citadel didn't explode (it was all in his head) and then will use the explosion as proof of IT (Shep could live if it exploded!). A major case of having your cake and eating it too!

You're missing the point, the citadel DID explode, in Shepards head.... Which is evident by him waking up on Earth.

If he "dreamed" it, it did not explode. If you presume IT that is...

[balance5050]

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Thats like reading lord of the rings and saying "nothing can be used against the theory that there is one ring to rule them all" 

The author wouldn't write anything that says they aren't trying to indoctrinate Shepard, because indoctrinating Sheprd was the author's intention.

As well as indoctrinating the player.

EC wasn't planned, IT wasn't their intention.

Unless part of the IT scheme involved deliberately lieing to an already angry fanbase.

That's left up to speculation. You can't say that with certainty.

 

Not speculation, quote from Bioware Co-Founder.

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between
the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received.  This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."


You can't "Speculate" what Bioware meant when they said EC is in addition to their existing plan... It's pretty clear.

I can actually, they will just make it way more obviouse that it was an indoctrination attempt, because peope didn't get it the first time around, then a subsequent DLC will be released once the endings are considered post.

[jijeebo]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Thats like reading lord of the rings and saying "nothing can be used against the theory that there is one ring to rule them all" 

The author wouldn't write anything that says they aren't trying to indoctrinate Shepard, because indoctrinating Sheprd was the author's intention.

As well as indoctrinating the player.

EC wasn't planned, IT wasn't their intention.

Unless part of the IT scheme involved deliberately lieing to an already angry fanbase.

That's left up to speculation. You can't say that with certainty.

IMAGE SNIP 

He's image bombing early. I guess he feels defeated sooner than usual.

My moneys on the control/sythesis TIM eye picture next... He did the white transition a couple pages back.

[Sisterofshane]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
I don't intend to "support" any of the ITs... IT supprters will say the Citadel didn't explode (it was all in his head) and then will use the explosion as proof of IT (Shep could live if it exploded!). A major case of having your cake and eating it too!

You're missing the point, the citadel DID explode, in Shepards head.... Which is evident by him waking up on Earth.

If he "dreamed" it, it did not explode. If you presume IT that is...

That's what he's arguing.

And you say that WE failed reading comprehension

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Thats like reading Lord of the Rings and saying "nothing can be used against the theory that there is one ring to rule them all" 

The author wouldn't write anything that says they aren't trying to indoctrinate Shepard, because indoctrinating Sheprd was the author's intention.

As well as indoctrinating the player.

No, the analogy would be One Ring Deniers (ORDs) posting all over Middle Earth forums claiming they have connected the dots showing there are other rings and that the ring Frodo drops into Mt. Doom was a decoy. You IT folks are ORDs!

DAFUQ? you missed the point again?

I corrected your "point". You did it all wrong.

[CavScout]

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Exactly. It's either face value bad writing, or IT. And since I particularly wasn't a fan of ME2s writing/story after the beauty of ME1...I may be slightly biased towards simply bad writing.  

It really isn't the bolded. That is an IT positioned false choice fallacy.

I don't think I get what you mean...Unless youre imply the ending wasn't bad writing. 

No, that the only choices are bad writing or IT.

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
I don't intend to "support" any of the ITs... IT supprters will say the Citadel didn't explode (it was all in his head) and then will use the explosion as proof of IT (Shep could live if it exploded!). A major case of having your cake and eating it too!

You're missing the point, the citadel DID explode, in Shepards head.... Which is evident by him waking up on Earth.

If he "dreamed" it, it did not explode. If you presume IT that is...

Right... so he can still save the day and discover the true meaning of the crucible, probably a reaper trap but that's just my opinion, as is everything I've ever said here.

[Sdrol117]

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Put IT aside for a second here...

If you think the Illusive Man is using biotic powers to put whispers in Shepard's head and a tendril blur on the screen, you are just dense...

Even in the face of the files for his newfound abilities being called "ReaperIndoc" and "ReaperPower"...

Wow...

TIM is using biotic powers for the physical control aspect, and the reaper implants are contributing the whispers and w/e. That's my current thinking, and i'd appreciate it if you didn't just flat out insult me because of it, thanks.


And I have a lovely file called shepard_male_alive or something to that effect, yet according to IT he is simply awake.

Wow...

insults aside, to be awake you have to be alive.

According to IT Shep is alive in every ending... So why make that distinction for the breath scene?

I believe because while alive, he is only truly himself in the red ending. The other two means he is indoctrinated or some ****.

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Exactly. It's either face value bad writing, or IT. And since I particularly wasn't a fan of ME2s writing/story after the beauty of ME1...I may be slightly biased towards simply bad writing.  

It really isn't the bolded. That is an IT positioned false choice fallacy.

I don't think I get what you mean...Unless youre imply the ending wasn't bad writing. 

No, that the only choices are bad writing or IT.

Is it not?

[CavScout]

Sisterofshane wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
I don't intend to "support" any of the ITs... IT supprters will say the Citadel didn't explode (it was all in his head) and then will use the explosion as proof of IT (Shep could live if it exploded!). A major case of having your cake and eating it too!

You're missing the point, the citadel DID explode, in Shepards head.... Which is evident by him waking up on Earth.

If he "dreamed" it, it did not explode. If you presume IT that is...

That's what he's arguing.

And you say that WE failed reading comprehension

Do you even know why you're attacking me?

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Thats like reading Lord of the Rings and saying "nothing can be used against the theory that there is one ring to rule them all" 

The author wouldn't write anything that says they aren't trying to indoctrinate Shepard, because indoctrinating Sheprd was the author's intention.

As well as indoctrinating the player.

No, the analogy would be One Ring Deniers (ORDs) posting all over Middle Earth forums claiming they have connected the dots showing there are other rings and that the ring Frodo drops into Mt. Doom was a decoy. You IT folks are ORDs!

DAFUQ? you missed the point again?

I corrected your "point". You did it all wrong.

No u missed it.

[Sisterofshane]

CavScout wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
I don't intend to "support" any of the ITs... IT supprters will say the Citadel didn't explode (it was all in his head) and then will use the explosion as proof of IT (Shep could live if it exploded!). A major case of having your cake and eating it too!

You're missing the point, the citadel DID explode, in Shepards head.... Which is evident by him waking up on Earth.

If he "dreamed" it, it did not explode. If you presume IT that is...

That's what he's arguing.

And you say that WE failed reading comprehension

Do you even know why you're attacking me?

So you even have proof that I'm attacking you?  Or just your arguments?

[Sdrol117]

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Exactly. It's either face value bad writing, or IT. And since I particularly wasn't a fan of ME2s writing/story after the beauty of ME1...I may be slightly biased towards simply bad writing.  

It really isn't the bolded. That is an IT positioned false choice fallacy.

I don't think I get what you mean...Unless youre imply the ending wasn't bad writing. 

No, that the only choices are bad writing or IT.

What other choices would you propose?

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Thats like reading Lord of the Rings and saying "nothing can be used against the theory that there is one ring to rule them all" 

The author wouldn't write anything that says they aren't trying to indoctrinate Shepard, because indoctrinating Sheprd was the author's intention.

As well as indoctrinating the player.

No, the analogy would be One Ring Deniers (ORDs) posting all over Middle Earth forums claiming they have connected the dots showing there are other rings and that the ring Frodo drops into Mt. Doom was a decoy. You IT folks are ORDs!

DAFUQ? you missed the point again?

I corrected your "point". You did it all wrong.

No u missed it.

Nope. I nailed it.

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
I don't intend to "support" any of the ITs... IT supprters will say the Citadel didn't explode (it was all in his head) and then will use the explosion as proof of IT (Shep could live if it exploded!). A major case of having your cake and eating it too!

You're missing the point, the citadel DID explode, in Shepards head.... Which is evident by him waking up on Earth.

If he "dreamed" it, it did not explode. If you presume IT that is...

That's what he's arguing.

And you say that WE failed reading comprehension

Do you even know why you're attacking me?

Cause you've made a name for yourself here buddy! congratulations.

[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Not speculation, quote from Bioware Co-Founder.

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between
the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received.  This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."


You can't "Speculate" what Bioware meant when they said EC is in addition to their existing plan... It's pretty clear.

I can actually, they will just make it way more obviouse that it was an indoctrination attempt, because peope didn't get it the first time around, then a subsequent DLC will be released once the endings are considered post.

You do know that makes no sense, because IT would NEED a subsequent ending DLC either way... That would show everyone that IT is true through the medium of invalidating Control and Synthesis.


Unless you're suggesting that Bioware are going to release TWO ending DLCs?

Modifié par jijeebo, 13 mai 2012 - 07:25 .

[Gorkan86]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

by pretending it never happened.

Stop using fallacies...
No version of IT is "it never happened" or "all a dream"...
It's Shepard fighting the Reapers most insidious weapon...

They all speculate that the ending sequence didn't not occur outside of Shep's mind, I.E. it did not literally happen. Don't' be coy.

What about Citadel explosion?
If you support IT number 2, it's mean Shep will have to die in Citadel explosion. But somehow he draw breath.

I don't intend to "support" any of the ITs... IT supprters will say the Citadel didn't explode (it was all in his head) and then will use the explosion as proof of IT (Shep could live if it exploded!). A major case of having your cake and eating it too!

You're missing the point, the citadel DID explode, in Shepards head.... Which is evident by him waking up on Earth.

So mass relays explosions also just in Shepard head?

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Thats like reading Lord of the Rings and saying "nothing can be used against the theory that there is one ring to rule them all" 

The author wouldn't write anything that says they aren't trying to indoctrinate Shepard, because indoctrinating Sheprd was the author's intention.

As well as indoctrinating the player.

No, the analogy would be One Ring Deniers (ORDs) posting all over Middle Earth forums claiming they have connected the dots showing there are other rings and that the ring Frodo drops into Mt. Doom was a decoy. You IT folks are ORDs!

DAFUQ? you missed the point again?

I corrected your "point". You did it all wrong.

No u missed it.

Nope. I nailed it.

Yes, you've nailed making my point that you can't see what the narrative is trying to tell you.

[CavScout]

Sisterofshane wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
I don't intend to "support" any of the ITs... IT supprters will say the Citadel didn't explode (it was all in his head) and then will use the explosion as proof of IT (Shep could live if it exploded!). A major case of having your cake and eating it too!

You're missing the point, the citadel DID explode, in Shepards head.... Which is evident by him waking up on Earth.

If he "dreamed" it, it did not explode. If you presume IT that is...

That's what he's arguing.

And you say that WE failed reading comprehension

Do you even know why you're attacking me?

So you even have proof that I'm attacking you?  Or just your arguments?

Come one man, at least own your words.

[balance5050]

Gorkan86 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

by pretending it never happened.

Stop using fallacies...
No version of IT is "it never happened" or "all a dream"...
It's Shepard fighting the Reapers most insidious weapon...

They all speculate that the ending sequence didn't not occur outside of Shep's mind, I.E. it did not literally happen. Don't' be coy.

What about Citadel explosion?
If you support IT number 2, it's mean Shep will have to die in Citadel explosion. But somehow he draw breath.

I don't intend to "support" any of the ITs... IT supprters will say the Citadel didn't explode (it was all in his head) and then will use the explosion as proof of IT (Shep could live if it exploded!). A major case of having your cake and eating it too!

You're missing the point, the citadel DID explode, in Shepards head.... Which is evident by him waking up on Earth.

So mass relays explosions also just in Shepard head?

Now you're getting it;)

Just like every other dream that has a kid in it.