505 réponses à ce sujet

[OH-UP-THIS!]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

2. Hallucination Theory. This is the second more know theory. It's one where Shepard is awake but is theoried that every thing he sees before him is an illusion or soon end up being in his head only. This one can have Shepard on the citadel but has the entire converstion with TIM and Anderson an illusion of indoctrination as well as the Star child.

What does this mean exactly? Are the surroundings real or partly real or fully fake?

Exactly, This is the most flexible theory. Shepard can be on earth still or on the citadel.

But you need evidence point either way, you can't just say he is possibly one place or another. If that is the case, you are probably going down the wrong route of interpretation. In a story, such a detail should be made clear

Or Shepard is still in the Geths Consensus.

Or unconscious in the med bay following Eden Prime.

1. ME: ascension say he's awake after eden prime.
2. I can choose not to do the mission and the same thing happens with the end.

The only way you can choose to not do Eden Prime is to not play Mass Effect... Given its the first ever mission.

Well let's see..............................maybe starting with 2?, no wait 3?

[OH-UP-THIS!]

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

2. Hallucination Theory. This is the second more know theory. It's one where Shepard is awake but is theoried that every thing he sees before him is an illusion or soon end up being in his head only. This one can have Shepard on the citadel but has the entire converstion with TIM and Anderson an illusion of indoctrination as well as the Star child.

What does this mean exactly? Are the surroundings real or partly real or fully fake?

Exactly, This is the most flexible theory. Shepard can be on earth still or on the citadel.

But you need evidence point either way, you can't just say he is possibly one place or another. If that is the case, you are probably going down the wrong route of interpretation. In a story, such a detail should be made clear

The thing you not getting is to support one theory mean that all theory are open to possibility. All we have to do is prove that Shepardis in the process of indoctriantion and any one of these theories can be true. 
My main proof of this is that TIM is controling Shepard at the end of the game with indoctriantion.

TIM is partly controlling Shepard at that point. If that is true, that scene doesn't mean that other events didn't actually happen, nor anything after the beam was in Shepard's mind. When people think and talk about IT, they are really talking about those things. What you seem to be doing is defining IT to make it more plausible instead of defining in a way that most ITers believe. If it is bit like calling computer God, showing that a computer exists and therefore a deity exists aswell.

Again, this is a hallucination, created by Harby, to attempt to indoctrinate AND control Sheps' mind into picking either Synth(), or Control(), personally I find Blue or Green, repugnant, and VERY counterproductive.

[BatmanTurian]

ohupthis wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

2. Hallucination Theory. This is the second more know theory. It's one where Shepard is awake but is theoried that every thing he sees before him is an illusion or soon end up being in his head only. This one can have Shepard on the citadel but has the entire converstion with TIM and Anderson an illusion of indoctrination as well as the Star child.

What does this mean exactly? Are the surroundings real or partly real or fully fake?

Exactly, This is the most flexible theory. Shepard can be on earth still or on the citadel.

But you need evidence point either way, you can't just say he is possibly one place or another. If that is the case, you are probably going down the wrong route of interpretation. In a story, such a detail should be made clear

Or Shepard is still in the Geths Consensus.

OH sure, confuse us some more would ya? J/K

It has crossed my mind, but that would entail, so much more convolution than we already have.

" Shepard Commmander. Wake up. "

" Legion? What the hell? I thought you died. "

" We uploaded ourselves into the Geth Network. However, I, the primary Geth taking autonomous control of this unit, have come back to assist you against the Old Machines. "

" But didn't I just destroy/control/join up with them? "

" No, that was a simulation designed so that we could gauge your combat readiness. We believe you are ready to 'kick their asses', Shepard Commander ."

" [Renegade] God, I hate Geth. Why did I even save your people?"
" [Paragon] Why would you put me through all that, Legion? "

" We need you to be ready, Shepard Commander. It was important that you believed it was real so that we could collect data. "

[Renegade interrupt] Rip off Legion's head in rage. " I thought I was dead, you damn toaster!"
[Paragon interrupt] Shepard puts up his/her hand " Legion, I'd tear you apart right now if I didn't have bigger hunks of metal to destroy. "

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 14 mai 2012 - 01:01 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Aaleel wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

As I said before...Much ofit is based on distration....The coduit(goal)being the distraction. How many people stopped and look around  during the ending?
Also, your missing the point that these are the same being with wanted to rebuild Sheps dead body in ME2...They even caused his death. If Shep die, they can revive him.

I looked around because I didn't know WTH was going.  I looked around for my squadmates, etc. 

But aside from that you're missing the point.  You referred me to the documentary as part of your argument.  I'm using just the facts given in the documentary and they contradict themself.  The documentary says the armor is not burned, the documentary says that the reapers don't want Shepard dead and ironically use the scene where TIM kills you as proof of this.

You want to make a point based on your own logic do it, but don't refer me to something that's full of inconsistencies. 

would this *death* be a symptom of a hallucination, tied into indoc? Not the theory, but actual indoctrination?

If there is a "critical-mission-failure" tied to this, I've not seen or heard of it.

[jijeebo]

ohupthis wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

 Most peopel miss this due to the fact that one of the three are the most popular commented on.
Let's go over all 3.

1. Dream theory. This is the most popular one that everyone know. It the one that stated everything is an indoctriantion dream...This one stands ou by having Shepard still on earth.

2. Hallucination Theory. This is the second more know theory. It's one where Shepard is awake but is theoried that every thing he sees before him is an illusion or soon end up being in his head only. This one can have Shepard on the citadel but has the entire converstion with TIM and Anderson an illusion of indoctrination as well as the Star child.

3. Inflence theory. This is the one that has everything as real but it one that the reaper are trying to subminally influence Shepards choices with indoctrination and warping his perpective. This is inflence by the idea how reaper are more convincing with indoctrination. This also can murge with Hallucination theory as well with the star child or have the scene that happen be real in away.(Meaning the star child can be an illusion but Shepard is at that place.)

All these version at the  point of star child  has varied directions of results of theries of the end.
Being:
The war is not over yet. And based on the choice Shepard makes he may or may not beat indoctination

It's a selecting of whether Sharperd activated the crucble or not. In reality.

It's a choice of ending the reapers  or letting them use the crucible as they see fit.("You let them implant you? Are you insane! " Shepard...ME1)

They are all tricks to get you to kill yourself.

Reguardless of what theory is used, Shepard is in the process of indoctriation till he makes a choice.
With that, it still means we don't know whats the results of the end reguardless.
Cheers.

Brilliant, so now instead of one theory being spammed everywhere and forced on us spread like gospel in a bid to educate those of us who are too stupid to understand it... We have three.



Happy days. <_<

IT is that hard to kill...Enjoy.

Just as hard as it is to prove, evidently.

And without HOPE, what do we stand for?

I have hope that the EC will salvage the endings without using IT.

[jijeebo]

ohupthis wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

The only way you can choose to not do Eden Prime is to not play Mass Effect... Given its the first ever mission.

Well let's see..............................maybe starting with 2?, no wait 3?

Yeah but even if you do that your Shep still activated the beacon on Eden Prime...

But it turned out he wasn't even speaking to me when he said it.

Modifié par jijeebo, 14 mai 2012 - 01:16 .

[jijeebo]

ohupthis wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

As I said before...Much ofit is based on distration....The coduit(goal)being the distraction. How many people stopped and look around  during the ending?
Also, your missing the point that these are the same being with wanted to rebuild Sheps dead body in ME2...They even caused his death. If Shep die, they can revive him.

I looked around because I didn't know WTH was going.  I looked around for my squadmates, etc. 

But aside from that you're missing the point.  You referred me to the documentary as part of your argument.  I'm using just the facts given in the documentary and they contradict themself.  The documentary says the armor is not burned, the documentary says that the reapers don't want Shepard dead and ironically use the scene where TIM kills you as proof of this.

You want to make a point based on your own logic do it, but don't refer me to something that's full of inconsistencies. 

would this *death* be a symptom of a hallucination, tied into indoc? Not the theory, but actual indoctrination?

If there is a "critical-mission-failure" tied to this, I've not seen or heard of it.

If the TIM kills you on the Citadel it is followed by Critical Failure, iirc.

EDIT: Yeppers - www.youtube.com/watch


I hope this is what you were asking about. 

Modifié par jijeebo, 14 mai 2012 - 01:21 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Sdrol117 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

 And they are all equally stupid.

Typical anti-I.T. response.

"Herp derp... it's stupid... derp."

Mind backing up that disingenuous assertion?

The fact that the entire theory hinges on "fixing" bad writing by pretending it never happened. Your theory sucks, time to move on.

Then by all means DO SO.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

by pretending it never happened.

Stop using fallacies...
No version of IT is "it never happened" or "all a dream"...
It's Shepard fighting the Reapers most insidious weapon...

They all speculate that the ending sequence didn't not occur outside of Shep's mind, I.E. it did not literally happen. Don't' be coy.

Typical IT defender response right there. 

Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

You keep saying that, it kinda makes me wonder if you are a (closet) believer.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

CavScout wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

TIM is using biotic powers for the physical control aspect

It's called ReaperPowerarmright...

If the ability was gained from Reaper implants, does that preclude from being Biotic in nature?

YES.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Gorkan86 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

by pretending it never happened.

Stop using fallacies...
No version of IT is "it never happened" or "all a dream"...
It's Shepard fighting the Reapers most insidious weapon...

They all speculate that the ending sequence didn't not occur outside of Shep's mind, I.E. it did not literally happen. Don't' be coy.

What about Citadel explosion?
If you support IT number 2, it's mean Shep will have to die in Citadel explosion. But somehow he draw breath.

That's for Bioware to decide.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

CavScout wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I'm not being coy...
Saying it never happened is bull****...
That denotes unimportance...

I can have a dream. I may have dreamed but what I dreamed didn't really happen. Same with the IT endings.

Finally, you're starting to GET it.

[jijeebo]

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

TIM is using biotic powers for the physical control aspect

It's called ReaperPowerarmright...

If the ability was gained from Reaper implants, does that preclude from being Biotic in nature?

YES.

The canon novels beg to differ.

[balance5050]

jijeebo wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

TIM is using biotic powers for the physical control aspect

It's called ReaperPowerarmright...

If the ability was gained from Reaper implants, does that preclude from being Biotic in nature?

YES.

The canon novels beg to differ.

TIM is a human. He HAS to be exposed to ezzo in utero. and if the novels are canon then the DLC is canon;)

[OH-UP-THIS!]

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Exactly. It's either face value bad writing, or IT. And since I particularly wasn't a fan of ME2s writing/story after the beauty of ME1...I may be slightly biased towards simply bad writing.  

It really isn't the bolded. That is an IT positioned false choice fallacy.

I don't think I get what you mean...Unless youre imply the ending wasn't bad writing. 

No, that the only choices are bad writing or IT.

What other choices would you propose?

IT is not even a valid choice.

IN your small insignificant world, where an imagination couldn't find the light of day, to save it's soul.

[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

TIM is using biotic powers for the physical control aspect

It's called ReaperPowerarmright...

If the ability was gained from Reaper implants, does that preclude from being Biotic in nature?

YES.

The canon novels beg to differ.

TIM is a human. He HAS to be exposed to ezzo in utero. and if the novels are canon then the DLC is canon;)

Was Grayson exposed or w/e his name is?


And that's not the same thing as well you know... Stop forcing the issue.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Sdrol117 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

What other choices would you propose?

IT is not even a valid choice.

What other choices would you propose? 

I was going to refute his point by saying something along the lines of "let people believe what they want" but that doesnt make IT valid. He has a point. If you don't believe in the IT, then in your eyes it is simply is NOT a way to interpret it. And I don't believe in it. And even on the zero chance it is IT, it is still BRILLIANT INTERPRETATION

there fixed it.

[Sdrol117]

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Exactly. It's either face value bad writing, or IT. And since I particularly wasn't a fan of ME2s writing/story after the beauty of ME1...I may be slightly biased towards simply bad writing.  

It really isn't the bolded. That is an IT positioned false choice fallacy.

I don't think I get what you mean...Unless youre imply the ending wasn't bad writing. 

No, that the only choices are bad writing or IT.

What other choices would you propose?

IT is not even a valid choice.

IN your small insignificant world, where an imagination couldn't find the light of day, to save it's soul.

You sound like you're arguing against yourself. This isn't about imagination, this about the truth. And the fact that you just admitted to your imagination just shows what all of you have been doing. Pretending this is more than it is.

Modifié par Sdrol117, 14 mai 2012 - 03:05 .

[Sdrol117]

ohupthis wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

What other choices would you propose?

IT is not even a valid choice.

What other choices would you propose? 

I was going to refute his point by saying something along the lines of "let people believe what they want" but that doesnt make IT valid. He has a point. If you don't believe in the IT, then in your eyes it is simply is NOT a way to interpret it. And I don't believe in it. And even on the zero chance it is IT, it is still SOMETHING BELIEVED BY MORONS

there fixed it.

I see. 

[balance5050]

Sdrol117 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Exactly. It's either face value bad writing, or IT. And since I particularly wasn't a fan of ME2s writing/story after the beauty of ME1...I may be slightly biased towards simply bad writing.  

It really isn't the bolded. That is an IT positioned false choice fallacy.

I don't think I get what you mean...Unless youre imply the ending wasn't bad writing. 

No, that the only choices are bad writing or IT.

What other choices would you propose?

IT is not even a valid choice.

IN your small insignificant world, where an imagination couldn't find the light of day, to save it's soul.

You sound like you're arguing against yourself. This isn't about imagination, this about the truth. And the fact that you just admitted to your imagination just shows what all of you have been doing. Pretending this is more than it is.

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Gorkan86 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

2. Yes, he did. You sent the collectors after him. Hire the Shadow broker to get Shepard's body...And when he didn't get him, made 3traps to get Shepard. He  even tells you he wants you when you fight collectswho are directly controled.

Why not just "assuming direct control" of TIM?

So now you want a *boss-fight* TIM?

[jijeebo]

ohupthis wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

2. Yes, he did. You sent the collectors after him. Hire the Shadow broker to get Shepard's body...And when he didn't get him, made 3traps to get Shepard. He  even tells you he wants you when you fight collectswho are directly controled.

Why not just "assuming direct control" of TIM?

So now you want a *boss-fight* TIM?

I was gutted they scrapped that idea... Would've been AWESOME.

I'm still due TIM a bullet in the face for what he did to Kahoku

[dreman9999]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That wwhere your wrong.... The hindbrain controls moter functions.

The hindbrain is also not part of the limbic system. 

But it's part of te brain and the thing you not noticing is indoctriantion effects all of the brain.
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination 

Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. 

The limbic system is only use to break the will of the person and send them commands...

The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions. 
.....Take sometime to read and understand.

[Sdrol117]

balance5050 wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
Yep. The other is "nothing in game can be used against IT because it is IT and so can't be used against IT".

Exactly. It's either face value bad writing, or IT. And since I particularly wasn't a fan of ME2s writing/story after the beauty of ME1...I may be slightly biased towards simply bad writing.  

It really isn't the bolded. That is an IT positioned false choice fallacy.

I don't think I get what you mean...Unless youre imply the ending wasn't bad writing. 

No, that the only choices are bad writing or IT.

What other choices would you propose?

IT is not even a valid choice.

IN your small insignificant world, where an imagination couldn't find the light of day, to save it's soul.

You sound like you're arguing against yourself. This isn't about imagination, this about the truth. And the fact that you just admitted to your imagination just shows what all of you have been doing. Pretending this is more than it is.

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

I must admit, i laughed. 

[dreman9999]

Wait a sec....Reaper tech can give people biotics. We are talking about tech that is meant to reform bodies. It's still is a form of enzo exposer.