505 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

2. Hallucination Theory. This is the second more know theory. It's one where Shepard is awake but is theoried that every thing he sees before him is an illusion or soon end up being in his head only. This one can have Shepard on the citadel but has the entire converstion with TIM and Anderson an illusion of indoctrination as well as the Star child.

What does this mean exactly? Are the surroundings real or partly real or fully fake?

Exactly, This is the most flexible theory. Shepard can be on earth still or on the citadel.

But you need evidence point either way, you can't just say he is possibly one place or another. If that is the case, you are probably going down the wrong route of interpretation. In a story, such a detail should be made clear

The thing you not getting is to support one theory mean that all theory are open to possibility. All we have to do is prove that Shepardis in the process of indoctriantion and any one of these theories can be true. 
My main proof of this is that TIM is controling Shepard at the end of the game with indoctriantion.

TIM is partly controlling Shepard at that point. If that is true, that scene doesn't mean that other events didn't actually happen, nor anything after the beam was in Shepard's mind. When people think and talk about IT, they are really talking about those things. What you seem to be doing is defining IT to make it more plausible instead of defining in a way that most ITers believe. If it is bit like calling computer God, showing that a computer exists and therefore a deity exists aswell.

The scene can support all 3 theories. It can be just the reaper attempting control when Shepard is dreaming or hallucinating. It being real is also something that can happen.

[Aaleel]

dreman9999 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes. They add things to make the world look real...That the point of distactions, so people don't see the trick/lies. 
As one can say that armor is burn. That realy is a grey area of proof.
As, all 3 version are pro the reaprs not wanting to kill Shepard. Not can be seen as attempt only to kill Shepard. Remeber, these are being that can reactivate dead bodies....Why do you think the reapers wanted Shepards deadbody in ME2?

Add things to make the world look real?  You go to sleep, I'm trying to trick you.  So I change you clothes, put a window in your room that wasn't there before and rearrange the furniture?  DOesn't make sense.

The documentary itself explains why the armor is not burned, the creator says it.  I'm just going off what I saw in the documentary.  You can find inconsistencies just using what you're given.

It make sense if you never been to the room before nor know where your going. Every thing we go to on the citadel is a place we never seen before.
Also, the armor looks burnt. It can be seen as that....If you want to make a better point on this, point to the soldiers in the ground around you who's arnor is not burnt.
Also, even that documentary states it's not solid evidence...
http://social.biowar...75/blog/212630/ 

No I believe that the documentary said I'll mark this as plausible because people will say it was just laziness on Bioware's part, but we all know it's far more than that.  Even though the real answer is that the breath scene is a pre rendered cutscene so they had to put every Shepard in the same armor.

I'm talking about the hill you just ran down.  Adding trees that weren't there when you ran down.  Piles of bodies.  Seeing Ashley and Kaiden even though only one of them is dead.  Wouldn't you only see the dead one.  Why would you see the living squadmate in a pile of dead bodies?

Once again if the reapers want to alive, why would TIM kill you.  Why does the crucible get destroyed if you wait to long to chose.  THis would make sense in reality because the Catalyst could be saying I gave you a chance to save yourself, if you don't want it, die.  This is why you get a mission failed message.  But it makes no sense under the IT, none at all.

[dreman9999]

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

2. Hallucination Theory. This is the second more know theory. It's one where Shepard is awake but is theoried that every thing he sees before him is an illusion or soon end up being in his head only. This one can have Shepard on the citadel but has the entire converstion with TIM and Anderson an illusion of indoctrination as well as the Star child.

What does this mean exactly? Are the surroundings real or partly real or fully fake?

Exactly, This is the most flexible theory. Shepard can be on earth still or on the citadel.

But you need evidence point either way, you can't just say he is possibly one place or another. If that is the case, you are probably going down the wrong route of interpretation. In a story, such a detail should be made clear

Or Shepard is still in the Geths Consensus.

Or unconscious in the med bay following Eden Prime.

1. ME: ascension say he's awake after eden prime.

But you are being indoctrinated so you can't fully trust anything

Yes I can...It's another perspective that's grounded in ME :REVILATION.....Which came out before ME1 and it's plot is before ME1.

Modifié par dreman9999, 13 mai 2012 - 04:43 .

[balance5050]

How's it going my fellow critical thinkers?!

[Gorkan86]

SubAstris wrote...

But you are being indoctrinated so you can't fully trust anything

Maybe everything that happens after the Arrival is an illusion.

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

The only way you can choose to not do Eden Prime is to not play Mass Effect... Given its the first ever mission.

My sencond point is an awnser to the
Geths Consensus , not edin prime.

Then you need to be more clear, me dear.


I already struggle to avoid making an idiot of myself as it is.


And I never realised the geth consensus was optional, it was such a brilliant mission they really should have made it a story one.

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

As much as I am a fan of the Indoc theory (simply because it is a way out for Bioware in fixing the ending) I think you are forgetting a very specific power from ME2 that may be the reason TIM is able to control Shepard and Anderson.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Dominate

Not saying that this is the case, just saying that this is what he may have used.

[dreman9999]

Aaleel wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes. They add things to make the world look real...That the point of distactions, so people don't see the trick/lies. 
As one can say that armor is burn. That realy is a grey area of proof.
As, all 3 version are pro the reaprs not wanting to kill Shepard. Not can be seen as attempt only to kill Shepard. Remeber, these are being that can reactivate dead bodies....Why do you think the reapers wanted Shepards deadbody in ME2?

Add things to make the world look real?  You go to sleep, I'm trying to trick you.  So I change you clothes, put a window in your room that wasn't there before and rearrange the furniture?  DOesn't make sense.

The documentary itself explains why the armor is not burned, the creator says it.  I'm just going off what I saw in the documentary.  You can find inconsistencies just using what you're given.

It make sense if you never been to the room before nor know where your going. Every thing we go to on the citadel is a place we never seen before.
Also, the armor looks burnt. It can be seen as that....If you want to make a better point on this, point to the soldiers in the ground around you who's arnor is not burnt.
Also, even that documentary states it's not solid evidence...
http://social.biowar...75/blog/212630/ 

No I believe that the documentary said I'll mark this as plausible because people will say it was just laziness on Bioware's part, but we all know it's far more than that.  Even though the real answer is that the breath scene is a pre rendered cutscene so they had to put every Shepard in the same armor.

I'm talking about the hill you just ran down.  Adding trees that weren't there when you ran down.  Piles of bodies.  Seeing Ashley and Kaiden even though only one of them is dead.  Wouldn't you only see the dead one.  Why would you see the living squadmate in a pile of dead bodies?

Once again if the reapers want to alive, why would TIM kill you.  Why does the crucible get destroyed if you wait to long to chose.  THis would make sense in reality because the Catalyst could be saying I gave you a chance to save yourself, if you don't want it, die.  This is why you get a mission failed message.  But it makes no sense under the IT, none at all.

As I said before...Much ofit is based on distration....The coduit(goal)being the distraction. How many people stopped and look around  during the ending?
Also, your missing the point that these are the same being with wanted to rebuild Sheps dead body in ME2...They even caused his death. If Shep die, they can revive him.

[jijeebo]

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

As much as I am a fan of the Indoc theory (simply because it is a way out for Bioware in fixing the ending) I think you are forgetting a very specific power from ME2 that may be the reason TIM is able to control Shepard and Anderson.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Dominate

Not saying that this is the case, just saying that this is what he may have used.

Well he did do a little biotic pulse sort of thing when he was forcing Shep to pull the trigger... So biotics may be involved in some capacity.

[SubAstris]

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

2. Hallucination Theory. This is the second more know theory. It's one where Shepard is awake but is theoried that every thing he sees before him is an illusion or soon end up being in his head only. This one can have Shepard on the citadel but has the entire converstion with TIM and Anderson an illusion of indoctrination as well as the Star child.

What does this mean exactly? Are the surroundings real or partly real or fully fake?

Exactly, This is the most flexible theory. Shepard can be on earth still or on the citadel.

But you need evidence point either way, you can't just say he is possibly one place or another. If that is the case, you are probably going down the wrong route of interpretation. In a story, such a detail should be made clear

Or Shepard is still in the Geths Consensus.

Or unconscious in the med bay following Eden Prime.

1. ME: ascension say he's awake after eden prime.

But you are being indoctrinated so you can't fully trust anything

Yes I can...It's another perspective that's grounded in ME :REVILATION.....Which came out before ME1 and it's plot is before ME1.

But there are other times too like in ME2. There is NO WAY that someone could survive planetary re-entry. He must have died. Therefore ME2 and ME3 is bull****. That's my theory. Has way more evidence than IT explains all the plot holes perfectly because they are intentional!

Modifié par SubAstris, 13 mai 2012 - 04:49 .

[dreman9999]

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

As much as I am a fan of the Indoc theory (simply because it is a way out for Bioware in fixing the ending) I think you are forgetting a very specific power from ME2 that may be the reason TIM is able to control Shepard and Anderson.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Dominate

Not saying that this is the case, just saying that this is what he may have used.

No I did not...
Dominate  has 3 symtoms...

A high pitch whine.
Discoloration of envirnment.
And imediate loss of self thought...
http://www.youtube.c...cETphT0Y#t=198s


None of that happens in the scene with TIM's control..
 

Modifié par dreman9999, 13 mai 2012 - 04:53 .

[dreman9999]

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

2. Hallucination Theory. This is the second more know theory. It's one where Shepard is awake but is theoried that every thing he sees before him is an illusion or soon end up being in his head only. This one can have Shepard on the citadel but has the entire converstion with TIM and Anderson an illusion of indoctrination as well as the Star child.

What does this mean exactly? Are the surroundings real or partly real or fully fake?

Exactly, This is the most flexible theory. Shepard can be on earth still or on the citadel.

But you need evidence point either way, you can't just say he is possibly one place or another. If that is the case, you are probably going down the wrong route of interpretation. In a story, such a detail should be made clear

Or Shepard is still in the Geths Consensus.

Or unconscious in the med bay following Eden Prime.

1. ME: ascension say he's awake after eden prime.

But you are being indoctrinated so you can't fully trust anything

Yes I can...It's another perspective that's grounded in ME :REVILATION.....Which came out before ME1 and it's plot is before ME1.

But there are other times too like in ME2. There is NO WAY that someone could survive planetary re-entry. He must have died. Therefore ME2 and ME3 is bull****. That's my theory. Has way more evidence than IT explains all the plot holes perfectly because they are intentional!

ME:Retribution is also a groud point to Shepard being alive in ME2 as well. My point is...ME as a series has multilpe perspectives via books and comics. If it was the game alone, you would have a point....But it's not the game alone.

[Gorkan86]

So Anderson sees that Shepard speaks with ventilation. Or just looking into it.
Then he approaches and says: Come on.
Why didn't he ask Shepard what he saw or heard out there?

[KingZayd]

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

As much as I am a fan of the Indoc theory (simply because it is a way out for Bioware in fixing the ending) I think you are forgetting a very specific power from ME2 that may be the reason TIM is able to control Shepard and Anderson.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Dominate

Not saying that this is the case, just saying that this is what he may have used.

TIM's an Ardat Yashi?

[Aaleel]

dreman9999 wrote...

As I said before...Much ofit is based on distration....The coduit(goal)being the distraction. How many people stopped and look around  during the ending?
Also, your missing the point that these are the same being with wanted to rebuild Sheps dead body in ME2...They even caused his death. If Shep die, they can revive him.

I looked around because I didn't know WTH was going.  I looked around for my squadmates, etc. 

But aside from that you're missing the point.  You referred me to the documentary as part of your argument.  I'm using just the facts given in the documentary and they contradict themself.  The documentary says the armor is not burned, the documentary says that the reapers don't want Shepard dead and ironically use the scene where TIM kills you as proof of this.

You want to make a point based on your own logic do it, but don't refer me to something that's full of inconsistencies. 

[Thaa_solon]

This thread is now part of the speculation theory

[SubAstris]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]jijeebo wrote...

[quote]Gorkan86 wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

2. Hallucination Theory. This is the second more know theory. It's one where Shepard is awake but is theoried that every thing he sees before him is an illusion or soon end up being in his head only. This one can have Shepard on the citadel but has the entire converstion with TIM and Anderson an illusion of indoctrination as well as the Star child.

[/quote]

What does this mean exactly? Are the surroundings real or partly real or fully fake?

[/quote]Exactly, This is the most flexible theory. Shepard can be on earth still or on the citadel.
[/quote]

But you need evidence point either way, you can't just say he is possibly one place or another. If that is the case, you are probably going down the wrong route of interpretation. In a story, such a detail should be made clear

[/quote]

Or Shepard is still in the Geths Consensus.

[/quote]

Or unconscious in the med bay following Eden Prime.

[/quote]1. ME: ascension say he's awake after eden prime.

[/quote]

But you are being indoctrinated so you can't fully trust anything

[/quote]Yes I can...It's another perspective that's grounded in ME :REVILATION.....Which came out before ME1 and it's plot is before ME1.[/quote]

But there are other times too like in ME2. There is NO WAY that someone could survive planetary re-entry. He must have died. Therefore ME2 and ME3 is bull****. That's my theory. Has way more evidence than IT explains all the plot holes perfectly because they are intentional!

[/quote]ME:Retribution is also a groud point to Shepard being alive in ME2 as well. My point is...ME as a series has multilpe perspectives via books and comics. If it was the game alone, you would have a point....But it's not the game alone.
[/quote]

But don't you realise you can't trust BW aswell?

[KingZayd]

Gorkan86 wrote...

So Anderson sees that Shepard speaks with ventilation. Or just looking into it.
Then he approaches and says: Come on.
Why didn't he ask Shepard what he saw or heard out there?

This is why i believe the Earthchild is real. Yes, he didn't hear the kid, but he didn't hear Shepard either. Otherwise he'd probably wonder why Shepard was talking to an empty vent.

[balance5050]

KingZayd wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

As much as I am a fan of the Indoc theory (simply because it is a way out for Bioware in fixing the ending) I think you are forgetting a very specific power from ME2 that may be the reason TIM is able to control Shepard and Anderson.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Dominate

Not saying that this is the case, just saying that this is what he may have used.

TIM's an Ardat Yashi?

Hey Zayd, holding the line I see.

[jijeebo]

KingZayd wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

As much as I am a fan of the Indoc theory (simply because it is a way out for Bioware in fixing the ending) I think you are forgetting a very specific power from ME2 that may be the reason TIM is able to control Shepard and Anderson.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Dominate

Not saying that this is the case, just saying that this is what he may have used.

TIM's an Ardat Yashi?

He studied banshees on Sanctuary... So he might've studied it as a little side project. It is entirely plausible.

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...


But don't you realise you can't trust BW aswell?

Not with money, but I trust they can still deliver a quality storytelling experience.

[Hadeedak]

What, only 3? Sure seems like a lot more.

[Gorkan86]

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

As much as I am a fan of the Indoc theory (simply because it is a way out for Bioware in fixing the ending) I think you are forgetting a very specific power from ME2 that may be the reason TIM is able to control Shepard and Anderson.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Dominate

Not saying that this is the case, just saying that this is what he may have used.

TIM's an Ardat Yashi?

He studied banshees on Sanctuary... So he might've studied it as a little side project. It is entirely plausible.

If Shepard can have this power why TIM can't?

[dreman9999]

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]jijeebo wrote...

[quote]Gorkan86 wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

2. Hallucination Theory. This is the second more know theory. It's one where Shepard is awake but is theoried that every thing he sees before him is an illusion or soon end up being in his head only. This one can have Shepard on the citadel but has the entire converstion with TIM and Anderson an illusion of indoctrination as well as the Star child.

[/quote]

What does this mean exactly? Are the surroundings real or partly real or fully fake?

[/quote]Exactly, This is the most flexible theory. Shepard can be on earth still or on the citadel.
[/quote]

But you need evidence point either way, you can't just say he is possibly one place or another. If that is the case, you are probably going down the wrong route of interpretation. In a story, such a detail should be made clear

[/quote]

Or Shepard is still in the Geths Consensus.

[/quote]

Or unconscious in the med bay following Eden Prime.

[/quote]1. ME: ascension say he's awake after eden prime.

[/quote]

But you are being indoctrinated so you can't fully trust anything

[/quote]Yes I can...It's another perspective that's grounded in ME :REVILATION.....Which came out before ME1 and it's plot is before ME1.[/quote]

But there are other times too like in ME2. There is NO WAY that someone could survive planetary re-entry. He must have died. Therefore ME2 and ME3 is bull****. That's my theory. Has way more evidence than IT explains all the plot holes perfectly because they are intentional!

[/quote]ME:Retribution is also a groud point to Shepard being alive in ME2 as well. My point is...ME as a series has multilpe perspectives via books and comics. If it was the game alone, you would have a point....But it's not the game alone.
[/quote]

But don't you realise you can't trust BW aswell?

[/quote]And now we are going with story tell who is making up the story fron scratch is lieing to me?
Please, BW put out all these book with differnet perspectives with one book hppen and came out befor ME1 just to trick me at a time when they planed a different ending for the game....
No, that's a baseless arguement.

Modifié par dreman9999, 13 mai 2012 - 05:04 .

[dreman9999]

Gorkan86 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

As much as I am a fan of the Indoc theory (simply because it is a way out for Bioware in fixing the ending) I think you are forgetting a very specific power from ME2 that may be the reason TIM is able to control Shepard and Anderson.

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Dominate

Not saying that this is the case, just saying that this is what he may have used.

TIM's an Ardat Yashi?

He studied banshees on Sanctuary... So he might've studied it as a little side project. It is entirely plausible.

If Shepard can have this power why TIM can't?

It's not dominate.
 Dominate  has 3 symtoms...

A high pitch whine.
Discoloration of envirnment.
And imediate loss of self thought...
http://www.youtube.c...cETphT0Y#t=198s


None of that happens in the scene with TIM's control..