64 réponses à ce sujet

[Adria Teksuni]

Right, but I think the issue Viglin and the others are having is that you said flat out that (to paraphrase) "Killing an innocent man is wrong. That is not opinion, that is fact."



I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

[Apophis2412]

There is a difference between killing and murder.

Killing is ending someones life.
murder is unjustly ending someone's life.

[Viglin]

Original182 wrote...

Viglin wrote...

Original182 wrote...

But murder is never a correct thing! My goodness, you sure what you're asking?

Grey Wardens have to make tough choices, sometimes to keep great secrets...just ask Ser Jory next time you seem at the Warden Drinkfest.........oh right

Yes that's true, but after you become a Grey Warden, there is a conversation option that says "I can't believe you killed Ser Jory!". So from a roleplay point of view, the game allows you to be a Grey Warden who is against murder.
And the secret of the ashes has no consequences to the Grey Warden's existence, compared to the secret of the Joining.
So it works either way.

Agreed...lm just stating sometimes, you have to get your hands dirty for the greater good.

Just take a look at how great religion and  the discovering of "holy artifacts" work out in our world, and since the DAO world is a very close copy of our own....
When l was roleplaying my  Dark Fighter, who basically did what he believed was for the greater good and big picture...l killed the Brother for that vary reason.
Id have preferred the option to conivince him to keep it a secret...but like Duncan, that choice was not an presented to me.

[Original182]

And my opinion on why sparing Brother Genitivi is the "correct" thing to do is because murder is always wrong (fact).
OP asks whether killing or sparing Brother Genitivi is the correct thing to do. I say sparing is correct because murder is always wrong.

Not only did the people NOT help answer the OP, they're arguing semantics. Well public forums and all I suppose.

Modifié par Original182, 09 décembre 2009 - 02:29 .

[Adria Teksuni]

In an RPG like DA:O, murder is no more unacceptable a means to attain one's goals than any other method.  It's all in player choice and interpretation. 
In this particular fantasy environment, murder is wrong for you.  It may not be wrong for someone playing a ruthless Gray Warden who is willing to do whatever it takes to see that Ferelden is saved from the Darkspawn.
And the OP's question has been asked and answered several times. 

Modifié par Adria Teksuni, 09 décembre 2009 - 02:29 .

[Original182]

Viglin wrote...
Agreed...lm just stating sometimes, you have to get your hands dirty for the greater good.

Just take a look at how great religion and  the discovering of "holy artifacts" work out in our world, and since the DAO world is a very close copy of our own....
When l was roleplaying my  Dark Fighter, who basically did what he believed was for the greater good and big picture...l killed the Brother for that vary reason.
Id have preferred the option to conivince him to keep it a secret...but like Duncan, that choice was not an presented to me.

Ok np, I guess your case works in a way. We've both presented our cases, so the OP will then have to decide.

[Auraad]

Apophis2412 wrote...

There is a difference between killing and murder.

Killing is ending someones life.
murder is unjustly ending someone's life.

Good one!

Of course, you're the one who tells what's just and unjust, right?

[Mnemnosyne]

Original182 wrote...

And my opinion on why sparing Brother Genitivi is the "correct" thing to do is because murder is always wrong (fact).
OP asks whether killing or sparing Brother Genitivi is the correct thing to do. I say sparing is correct because murder is always wrong.

Not only did the people NOT help answer the OP, they're arguing semantics. Well public forums and all I suppose.

Following up the opinion that "murder is always wrong" with "(fact)" does not actually make it a fact, you know.  Murder is always illegal, since the definition of the word is that of unlawfully killing someone, but by saying that it is "wrong" you make an implication toward a universal absolute that does not (and most likely cannot) exist.  You are making the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority - in this case, an authority of some universal standard which can define actions as inherently right or wrong.

[Original182]

Koyasha wrote...
Following up the opinion that "murder is always wrong" with "(fact)" does not actually make it a fact, you know.  Murder is always illegal, since the definition of the word is that of unlawfully killing someone, but by saying that it is "wrong" you make an implication toward a universal absolute that does not (and most likely cannot) exist.  You are making the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority - in this case, an authority of some universal standard which can define actions as inherently right or wrong.

Please educate my ignorant self, and show me how to answer the OP in a manner which you approve.

Edit: This goes for everyone else who were kind enough to correct me.

Modifié par Original182, 09 décembre 2009 - 02:44 .

[PuffyTail]

Apophis2412 wrote...

There is a difference between killing and murder.

Killing is ending someones life.
murder is unjustly ending someone's life.

Eh, yes and no.  We give things different names to pretty them up and soothe our conscience, but the other person is still just as dead.

On topic, I suppose whether to spare him would be correct or not depending on how you play the character and whether you want to enable others to find the sacred ashes or not.

Modifié par PuffyTail, 09 décembre 2009 - 02:50 .

[Adria Teksuni]

Original182 wrote...
Please educate my ignorant self, and show me how to answer the OP in a manner which you approve.

Edit: This goes for everyone else who were kind enough to correct me.

How about:

"It is my opinion that murder is always wrong, no matter the circumstances, so killing Genitivi is not something you should do, no matter what your companions say."

[Varenus Luckmann]

Original182 wrote...

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

Are you suggesting we should roleplay our characters based on our real life moral guidelines? Doesn't that partially defeat the point of roleplaying?

Yes, because the morals of Ferelden is loosely based on real life. People can roleplay based on real-life morality too.
I was giving my opinion of why it is "not correct" to kill Genetivi. It's a valid one, like yours.

And that's a bad thing, not good.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Original182 wrote...

And my opinion on why sparing Brother Genitivi is the "correct" thing to do is because murder is always wrong (fact).
OP asks whether killing or sparing Brother Genitivi is the correct thing to do. I say sparing is correct because murder is always wrong.

Why would "murder" always be wrong?

[Varenus Luckmann]

Koyasha wrote...

Following up the opinion that "murder is always wrong" with "(fact)" does not actually make it a fact, you know.  Murder is always illegal, since the definition of the word is that of unlawfully killing someone, but by saying that it is "wrong" you make an implication toward a universal absolute that does not (and most likely cannot) exist.  You are making the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority - in this case, an authority of some universal standard which can define actions as inherently right or wrong.

I want to have your babies.

[Fishy]

*spoiler*

In my Epilogue it's said that they found the temple but the ashes was gone and never retrieved(when i killed him) . I sacrified myself during that playthrough.



I killed him because he was a old fart fanatic who just wanted to be some kind of world prophet for discovering the ashes and strenghtening the Chantry.Because i could care less about the ashes not replesnishing itself.



Killing him was a good choice imo .. and Morrigan said something true for once

-Oh ahh .. another artifact that will be used for the weathly only.Has a casteless Dwarf .. that pissed off and killed him.

[Chezdon]

Simple. I was a good guy first playthrough, so I let him live.



Now I'm on my second and I'm being "evil" so will definitely disembowel the fool.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I let him live, I have no reason to kill him. but I do have reasons to reveal the ashes to the world.
Firstly, I don't really care about protecting them.
Secondly, I am planing to be King and there is nothing better than me being seen as a Saint.
Thirdly, it would increase the people's morale, after the blight, and make them busy pilgriming.
And it would increase the prestige of Ferelden, compared to blasted Orlais. Not only did Andraste come from Ferelden, but she rests in Ferelden.
Furthermore, thius can be used to gain gold from foreign pilgrims. And it can be regulated by the chantry.
Finally Brother Genetivi is one of the few Chantry people I respect, because of his love for knowldge (many of our codexes are written by him).

In addition, in my epilogue, it says nothing about the ashes being misused or abused. Not that I care really.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 décembre 2009 - 04:13 .

[Chalenheri]

the Urn is an item of power.

Some people will think "it will heal my sick dad", other believe, that it will make them a demi god.



Now our beloved brother Genitivi comes along and wants to tell the world that such an item exists, where it's location is and even show it to people. It's only a matter of time, because people are going to die because of it.



At first I thought "Ok, I kill him and everything is alright". But then I let him live and decide to have a little faith in humanity ^^

[Bagenholt]

I killed him on my first char and was surprised Morrigan disapproved. On my second char I let him live but I regretted it. Even went to his house to see if I could finish the job but hey ho >< no luck

[kevinwastaken]

You cannot prove or disprove that "murder is wrong." Thus it is an opinion.

[Realmzmaster]

The OP ask if killing Brother Genitivi has any long term consequences. The answer is no. Murder and justifible killing are defined by a higher authority, In this case the higher authority are the laws of Ferelden. If a person is unarmed and not the aggressor, striking that person down would be considered murder if that is how the law sees it. During times of war killing the enemy is justifible as long as the enemy is armed and not surrendering.
What Sten did to the farmers was murder. No one seems to have a problem with that. But here you say kill Brother Genitivi. How is that any different from what Sten did? You are murdering an innocent man who is not attacking you. You murder him to keep him quiet. Your character makes the decision, but one can surmize it must be against the laws of the land given some of your companions reactions.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 09 décembre 2009 - 04:20 .

[fdgarcia]

I find the general consensus pretty shocking here.  It never even crossed my mind that you could kill Genitivi.  That poor guy.

[TheLadyJess]

I chose to kill him because the Ashes need to remain sacred and not become a tourist attraction. Granted, they have enormous healing power, but are all people worthy of being healed? Would you allow a slaver to be healed? A Thief? A child killer?

[Rolandable]

Deep Thoughts by

Jack Handy

[thegreateski]

Kill him for the horrible 80's action movie style death!